Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 34,489 Location: Paris, France
Yogurt « Thread Started on Sept 28, 2011, 8:18pm »
Yogurt is one of the most universal dairy products and it is used in lots of different ways -- as dessert, as a cooking ingredient, as a condiment...
In France, we have about six different kinds of yogurt in every supermarket -- Bulgarian style, Swiss style, French style, Greek style, etc... On top of that, there are now all sorts of yogurt products that can't be called yogurt because they don't use the specific bacteria culture that has been defined as the one to be used in yogurt. So they are called "bifidus," "dairy culture" and other things.
I usually eat yogurt as a dessert type item, often with fruit. I have never felt the desire to make it myself, although that is a fad that comes and goes over the years and the true believers scoff at anybody who buys "industrial" yogurt.
In a different vein, I also love salads that use yogurt, such as Indo-Pakistani raita with cucumbers, and I have also learned to often use yogurt in recipes that call for things like crème fraîche. It's not the same, but it usually works!
I had already left the United States before frozen yogurt suddenly appeared, so I discovered it several years late. I think it is an interesting product, too.
I know that yogurt is eaten quite a bit all through Europe, Asia, North America and Africa, but I have no information about whether it is common in South America. Does anybody know about that? I assume it is consumed there as well, perhaps made from llama milk.
How do the rest of you consume yogurt? I know that some people absolutely hate it in any form -- such as my brother. I think he was put off by the concept of "cultured bacteria" and never got over it.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 25,302 Location: Mexico
Re: Yogurt « Reply #1 on Sept 28, 2011, 9:11pm »
God, do I love yogurt! I'm so envious of your access to different kinds. I am restricted to one (1) brand because it's the only one that offers an unsweetened version. All of the others, even if they say "natural" or "no sugar" will have some kind of sweetener. I used to have two choices, but narrowly averted disaster once when I idly glanced at the back of my usual brand's container just before putting some in a nice bowl of borscht. They'd added sugar! Gaaaaaack.
I've posted elsewhere that one of my favorite table sauces is hot pepper (chile) crushed with a little salt & sometimes garlic, then yogurt stirred in.
Cold yogurt on hot oatmeal -------
Yogurt atop vegetables, hot or cold, with some olive oil, salt & pepper.
I could go on and on.
Does slurping it directly from the container count?
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 3,548 Location: Montréal
Re: Yogurt « Reply #2 on Sept 29, 2011, 12:39am »
bixa, in your situation, I would make it.
I've made it in the past (from goat's milk) but it is not necessary any more as we have yoghourt from goat's and ewe's milk, and actually I can tolerate cow's milk yoghourt better than most cow milk products because of the friendly bacteria. There is nothing wrong with industrial yoghourt if it is made with quality ingredients. Some add dubious things such as modified starch - yecch. Or all types of hidden sugaroids.
I use it as a savoury too. I don't really like it with fruit very much. Mmm tzatziki with cucumber, drained yoghourt and finely chopped garlic, perhaps chives or dill.
Yes, I do love it with porridge, in the winter's cold. My savoury porridge can include cumin or caraway seeds, and whatever else appeals. The only sweet allowed is red onion. (this, if I'm working at home, alone). A particularly rich variation adds nuts.
We have a medicinal yoghourt called BiokPlus. It has a strong concentrate of friendly bacteria (probiotics) and is sold in pharmacies and natural food shops, and in some supermarkets. Nasty stuff, but it cures a stomach upset or a case of the runs very quickly.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 363 Location: Queensland, Australia
Re: Yogurt « Reply #3 on Oct 7, 2011, 7:47am »
Last night I made my first batch of yogurt with Buffalo milk which is not so easy to come by here and is not sold in shops. I got it from a buffalo farm through a friend. I made ricotta and a couple of types of ice creams also with it since I had 11 litres to deal with!!!
It worked out wonderfully and may do it again with goat and cows milk in the future but not sure I'll do it all the time because I'm a bit lazy . I made sure the starter was one with the friendly bacteria as mentioned above and was a natural pot set Greek type of yogurt with no other additives.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 3,548 Location: Montréal
Re: Yogurt « Reply #4 on Oct 8, 2011, 12:00am »
What are the specific qualities of buffalo milk? It is used for the highest quality and most "typical" type of mozzarella in Campania (Naples region) and is actually made hereabouts now (before in Vermont and Ontario, now even right here in Québec). According to this article on Buffalo mozzarella, it is richer than cow's milk and would thus give a much greater cheese output: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozzarella_di_Bufala_(buffalo_mozzarella)
I see it was actually a pest in Australia but is now reared under more controlled conditions.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 34,489 Location: Paris, France
Re: Yogurt « Reply #5 on Oct 10, 2011, 6:08pm »
Oddly enough, thinking of Lagatta who has no trouble with yogurt but who has problems wtih milk, I am precisely the opposite. In the morning, when I have nothing in my stomach, milk is absolutely no problem, but yogurt will give me severe acid reflux.
So as much as I often want yogurt in the morning, I tend to avoid it because I don't want to suffer for an hour or two.
Any other time of day, including just when I am going to bed, yogurt is not at all a problem for me.
Why can't we get our bodies to do what we want them to do?
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 25,302 Location: Mexico
Re: Yogurt « Reply #6 on Oct 11, 2011, 4:22pm »
That is interesting, particularly because yogurt can be used to soothe an acid stomach. As soon as I wrote that, I figured I'd better double-check it, & came across this: Please note that fermented foods like yogurt, buttermilk and sour cream seem to become more acidic in the body [highlight=yellow]if they contain some types of active cultures of helpful bacteria[/highlight].source It would be interesting to see the results if you & LaGatta were able to swap your yogurt brands.
Returning to what LaGatta said earlier, suggesting that I make my own yogurt. As far as I can figure, the only real benefit would be that I could have low-fat yogurt that way. I pay less than 18 pesos for a liter of yogurt and don't have an oven with a pilot light. Would there be other health benefits I'm overlooking? I figure having to go to the store to get it lessens the chances of ODing on it the way I'd like to do.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 363 Location: Queensland, Australia
Re: Yogurt « Reply #7 on Oct 12, 2011, 10:06am »
Yes lagatta in the Far North of Australia I hear they roam wild just the like camels do but these are farmed and becoming more common here. I have bought Australian buffalo milk mozzarella and it's amazing and hope to try to make it myself one day, it did seem a lot richer than other milks I've tried. Maybe next time I might not add any cream to the milk for the icecream and see how it is.
I did notice I had a higher yeild than when I made ricotta with with cows or goats milk in the past.
I should say that when I ate buffalo mozarella in Italy last year it was very similar I thought to what is made not too far from me.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 25,302 Location: Mexico
Re: Yogurt « Reply #9 on Oct 12, 2011, 4:48pm »
Alpura Natural is the one I buy, DonC.
The only things I can say against it is that there is no low-fat option, at least in Oaxaca, and that it's not thick at all. I always want to glug it like buttermilk. No buttermilk here either.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 363 Location: Queensland, Australia
Re: Yogurt « Reply #10 on Oct 15, 2011, 7:09am »
I did try making it in the ice chest first then gave up because I was having trouble with the temperature. The oven worked best for me but I do know lots of people use the first method. I put a hot water bottle in there then when that wasn't warm enough added hot water..... gave up.
My name really isn't Don, but I used to be anónimo.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 2,946 Location: Michoacán, México
Re: Yogurt « Reply #11 on Oct 15, 2011, 7:49am »
Bixa, of course the inoculated milk is warm; the individual jars are wrapped in bath towels. The retained heat is enough to coagulate the yogurt. I suppose that you could pour boiling water into the ice chest, then rinse it out before placing the yog jars inside. It has been many years since we have done this.
Buttermilk: I use SACO brand dry cultured buttermilk for baking. I wouldn't drink it. We have friends who schlep it down from the U.S. for us.
Investigate "jocoque", a sort of more solid, drained yogurt product. Costco carries Libanius brand, at least in Morelia. I tried it last year, and didn't care for it, as the Jocoque Seco was very firm, sort of chalky and you had to dig it out of the container. Maybe that isn't how it normally is.
That is interesting, particularly because yogurt can be used to soothe an acid stomach. As soon as I wrote that, I figured I'd better double-check it, & came across this: Please note that fermented foods like yogurt, buttermilk and sour cream seem to become more acidic in the body [highlight=yellow]if they contain some types of active cultures of helpful bacteria[/highlight].source It would be interesting to see the results if you & LaGatta were able to swap your yogurt brands.
Returning to what LaGatta said earlier, suggesting that I make my own yogurt. As far as I can figure, the only real benefit would be that I could have low-fat yogurt that way. I pay less than 18 pesos for a liter of yogurt and don't have an oven with a pilot light. Would there be other health benefits I'm overlooking? I figure having to go to the store to get it lessens the chances of ODing on it the way I'd like to do.
It's possible that milk doesn't bother me because I drink the UHT milk that is so reviled in North America. Maybe the processing kills something that would normally bother my stomach.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 25,302 Location: Mexico
Re: Yogurt « Reply #13 on Oct 15, 2011, 4:42pm »
DonC, ages ago a lady working the dairy section in one of the supermarkets told me that buttermilk was jocoque, but I'll be damned if I know what it really is. I do know that it's not in the dairy case, but somewhere over in the hens' teeth section.
Found this online. The first part sounds like buttermilk (based on whey from butter), the second sounds more like yogurt which is then drained. That link claims it's produced in abundance in the state of Oaxaca, where it must be sold by men in black raincoats, hissing at you from the sides of their mouths.
Ah -- this entry unequivocally says it's strained yogurt, plus has a nice etymological note you'll enjoy.
I do have a large ice chest I never use. Once I slow down on my Urdu lessons, I'll take a stab at making yogurt.
Joined: Oct 2010 Gender: Female Posts: 1,659 Location: England
Re: Yogurt « Reply #15 on Oct 20, 2011, 2:17pm »
I go through phases of eating lots of yogurt...then don't think of eating it for weeks...never made it myself.
I like yogurt on my special K breakfast cereal...it's very filling. Also like it with fresh fruit. I use it when baking some cakes...and use plain yogurt in curries, stirred into a madras or goulash it adds a lovely tart creaminess. In the past I have used it as the raising agent when I made some naan...but can't find the recipe anywhere.....
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 25,302 Location: Mexico
Re: Yogurt « Reply #16 on Oct 20, 2011, 3:43pm »
Hmmm. I found a reference here to a naan made by Lola, but can't find the recipe. Lola, does this ring a bell?
I love yogurt on cereal, sometimes yogurt+water in lieu of milk. Plain yogurt on Grape Nuts sets off the most unbearable squeaking inside the head, though.
My name really isn't Don, but I used to be anónimo.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 2,946 Location: Michoacán, México
Re: Yogurt « Reply #17 on Nov 8, 2011, 9:39am »
I made yogurt at home yesterday using some Alpura Natural Yogurt as the starter and some pure leche de vaca descremada en bolsa. (Skimmed or part skimmed cow's milk, sold in a bag.)
Making the yogurt was pretty easy. Managing the culturing process (only about 4 hours) was full of doubt and mental anguish re: temp and how to use the thermometer, but it will go easier next time. I had 5, 1/2 pint jars in a hot water bath in a deep pan, wrapped with bath towels, atop a heat pad. I was surprised the yogurt set up so quickly.
Making "Greek" yogurt, some of which I ate now on banana slices sprinkled with some deluxe granola, was also doubts inducing, but I got a very thick, creamy product from a liter and a third of Alpura Natural de leche entera. I drained the Alpura out of the caron in a cheesecloth bag rinsed with cold water. (Alpura brand whole milk natural —no sugar or thickeners added), The draining took about 6 hours at cool room temp. The results are wonderful.
The large amount of whey produced, almost 2 cups, was used in lieu of buttermilk in Buttermilk Corn Bread, and it is wonderful cornbread. There's a bit of whey left over. The whey drained from "Greek" yogurt or cheese making is a terrific substitute for buttermilk.
I imagine labna or jocoque (types of yogurt "cheese") can be made more easily if the yogurt has more milk solids in it that does Alpura. My homemade yogurt is much denser, as i added 3 TBS Nido powdered whole milk to the hot milk. Maybe a bit too much for a liter of milk.
I'm sure that my next batch of homemade yogurt will be much easier to make.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 25,302 Location: Mexico
Re: Yogurt « Reply #18 on Nov 8, 2011, 4:04pm »
Most interesting, DonC. I love the idea of getting whey as a by-product, too.
Some questions: the milk in a bag is liquid milk, right? When I first read this, I was thinking it was powder, but no?
Special thermometer? Necessary? What's the optimum temp, if so?
Paragraph three -- I'm familiar with the product & brand you name, but .... You made the Greek yogurt with a commercial brand of whole-milk natural yogurt, right? Cheesecloth -- one layer or more?
My name really isn't Don, but I used to be anónimo.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 2,946 Location: Michoacán, México
Re: Yogurt « Reply #19 on Nov 9, 2011, 11:02am »
The only skim or part skim fresh milk we could find was in a liter bag. We used a digital fever thermometer for occasionally monitoring the temp. But right after the milk came to a boil and was removed from the stove, I used a candy/frying thermometer.
The ideal temp is 100º F or 38º C. From 95º to 105º i fine.
This next part refers to draining already made yogurt. I used Alpura Natural Leche Entera.
Cheesecloth: I started with two layers, but the yogurt spilled out and I started again with a a bigger square of double layered cheese cloth. The cloth is rinsed in cold water (I used purified water, of course.) and wrung out.
The wetted cheeecloth is used to line a strainer over a bowl. That is left for an hour. Then the loose ends of the bag are gathered and tied with clean cord, and hung up over the bowl. Be sure that the bowl is capacious enough to capture all the whey. I simply hung the bag from the handle of our lever action, hand powered citrus squeezer. (The kind that stands on a counter.)
It took about 6 hours to get a very thick "Greek" style yogurt. Further draining would have undoubtedly resulted in labna or yogurt cheese, called "jocoque" in Mexico. Keep in mind that I started with the semi-liquid Alpura Natural.
If I use my own, much thicker homemade yogurt, I think the labna/jocoque would form much faster.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Male Posts: 34,489 Location: Paris, France
Re: Yogurt « Reply #20 on Nov 25, 2011, 6:50pm »
Without looking it up, I have no idea what are the actual differences between the various yogurts available in France. The main offerings are French (not called French, but just ordinary yogurt), but also Greek, Bulgarian and Swiss. On top of that, there are the blended versions and the non blended versions. On top of that, there is bifidus, a different kind of yogurt, not allowed to call itself yogurt because it uses different bacteria. I should also mention that not a single one of these yogurts resembles the yogurt that I buy when I go to the United States, even when they are made by French companies like Dannon or Yoplait.
Joined: Feb 2009 Gender: Female Posts: 363 Location: Queensland, Australia
Re: Yogurt « Reply #21 on Nov 26, 2011, 12:46am »
I think most people don't realise how importan yogurt cultures are to our intestinal flora. Please everyone if you are on anti-biotics eat about a cup full a day. For women it is very important as I've seen it work first hand, not sure how it affects men but it must be helpful also in some way with keeping the healthy bacteria balance right as well.
Traditionally we make yogurt at home every day. A spoonful of today's yogurt is the culture for tomorrow's. Apart from eating we use yogurt in cooking a variety of dishes. It is an excellent marinade too. In summer we drink "Lassi", this is made by blending thick yogurt with water, milk, sugar & a drop of rose essence, a very refreshing drink.
Yogurt is one thing - smooth like thick pouring custard and sour unless doctored with sugar and fruit. In South Africa the majority go for Maas. This has to be made from unpasteurized whole cows milk. It is simply left to coagulate into curds leaving the whey sinking to the bottom. The thick cheesy curds are delicious eaten with a liberal sprinkling of sugar and an equally liberal pouring of fresh cream! In the supermarkets it is sold thickened but with no whey. I don't know how they get that right. It is smoother than homemade maas and is eaten by the African population poured over brown bread. No sugar, just like that.
The culture is added to luke warm milk. In summer time the curd sets within a couple of hours. In winter we cover it with a tea cosy or keep the pot in a warm place and the curd is left to set overnight. The best thick curd is made in clay pots. The clay absorbes water and the curd is thick. We also add caramalised sugar to slightly thickened milk to make sweet curd to be eaten as a dessert.
Bixa - Yes indeed it seems to be VERY similar especially in the second paragraph where it suggests making the CCC with non-homogenized milk. The reason being is that when milk is pasteurized it kills off the Lactobacillus acidophilus (which means acid loving milk) which turns the milk sour. Pasteurized milk simply rots.
What you will need to do is find a person that owns a cow ( and is of fairly high hygienic standards) and purchase a litre or two. From what I can gather, this is going to be a challenge, but you never know! The cheese cloth is the best way to get it nice and thick. My father used to tie the cheese cloth around a wooden spoon suspended across the top of a bowl keeping the curds well out of the liquid whey.
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. I made sure the starter was one with the friendly bacteria as mentioned above and was a natural pot set Greek type of yogurt with no other additives.![[avatar]](http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_Dp8GJpYQxRg/TV5U5-begCI/AAAAAAAAm_c/lGP03Y-46CY/doncuevas.jpg "[avatar]")
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