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kerouac2
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|  | The Eurostar and Europe
« Thread Started on Dec 25, 2009, 3:38pm » | ![[Quote]](http://images.proboards.com/buttons/quote.gif "[Quote]") |
Obviously the Eurostar was in the (European) news this week for having broken down in the bad weather, but people rarely stop to think about how it has changed relations between England and the Continent.
Therefore, I thought that this article was quite interesting. The idea that I can walk to Gare du Nord from my apartment in 10 minutes and be in the center (centre) of London less than 3 hours later never ceases to amaze me. (Travel time between Paris and London is now 2h20, but you have to check in and clear immigration 30 minutes ahead of time, unlike continental trains that you can board 30 seconds before they leave.)
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #1 on Dec 25, 2009, 4:51pm » | |
We took the Eurostar trip to London from Paris when we visited Paris in 2007. We thought it was wonderful and we would do it again. It sure beats the heck out of having to go by boat or plane, even with the troubles. Hopefully Eurostar will learn from the problems that they had and correct them or at least
have an action plan which they didn't have.
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lagatta
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #2 on Dec 25, 2009, 5:07pm » | |
Charles Brenner is right; the impact has been by far greater in southeastern England than throughout Britain as alas overland railway services have not kept pace with the Eurostar or the French TGV. Pity, as rail will be called up on to play a greater role in travel for environmental and economic reasons alike.
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #3 on Dec 25, 2009, 10:56pm » | |
If we lived in Paris then Eurostar would be a possibility for us. But Mrs Faz likes to visit her children in England who live in Cambridge (near Stansted Ryanair's base), Bath (near Bristol airport) and Birmingham. For her to fly from Bergerac (check-in 30 minutes) is convenient. We have no TGV line near us. To train it to Paris to catch Eurostar would add about 5 hours to her journey.
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lagatta
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #4 on Dec 25, 2009, 11:40pm » | |
Well, I have friends who'd do that on principle, but it won't happen en masse unless rail links are improved in Britain and even in France. I don't remember a TGV in Toulouse, which would be useful from many parts of Spain as well.
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kerouac2
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #5 on Dec 26, 2009, 7:20pm » | |
The TGV line is creeping southwest, not fast enough of course.
Here is a map of France redrawn as per rail travel time.
![[image]](http://julor.files.wordpress.com/2007/07/france_pop-agglo_vs_tgv.jpg "[image]")
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lagatta
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #6 on Dec 26, 2009, 7:51pm » | |
Was this before the TGV-Est? Travel times between Paris and Strasbourg have been cut considerably since 2007, and I believe the portion of the line in France isn't finished.
Is a line foreseen to Toulouse and other Southwestern cities, and on to Catalonia?
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kerouac2
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #7 on Dec 26, 2009, 9:34pm » | |
No, this includes the TGV-Est, otherwise Reims would not be touching Paris. Strasbourg is still 2h20 from Paris until they finish the line through the Vosges.
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #8 on Dec 26, 2009, 10:11pm » | |
It is a wonderful thing to be able to take a train from London to Paris. Unfortunately it would take me nearly 2 hours to reach St. Pancras station from where I live which makes the journey much longer.
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #10 on Dec 27, 2009, 2:47am » | |
We got to Gare du Nord minutes before our early morning Eurostar left (not recommended) because of poor planning and procrastination. The immigration man was kind, and no one else was in queue by that point. Then the train was delayed 1.5 hrs en route.
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kerouac2
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #11 on Dec 27, 2009, 6:37am » | |
Well, I have to go to London soon so I'll be testing it again. Returning in 1st class with the meal and champagne upon boarding will console me after an excessively long day.
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lagatta
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #12 on Dec 27, 2009, 1:04pm » | |
My friend got bumped into First Class, so at least that was a relief after her long and tiring wait at la Gare du Nord.
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kerouac2
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #13 on Dec 27, 2009, 4:03pm » | |
I got an email from my boss this morning, who returned yesterday and he was bumped to first class also. (The reason he sends me emails is to beg newspapers that he missed off me; since he is also in politics, he is afraid to miss anything.)
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bjd
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #14 on Dec 31, 2009, 5:34pm » | |
The TGV line to Toulouse is planned, because of links to Spain, but not for years. We do have trains that look like high-speed trains but the track between here and Bordeaux is not ready so they are not really fast on that section. So even taking the "TGV" to Paris takes over 5 hours.
There had been a project for a second airport in Toulouse but I think it was cancelled. The TGV line to Toulouse was supposed to be ready in 2017 or 2020 but I don't know exactly at what stage the planning is.I would think Air France and Easyjet don't want it since AF flies to Paris about 11 times a day.
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lagatta
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #15 on Dec 31, 2009, 10:29pm » | |
Well, if we want to get serious about global warming, that should simply not be tolerated.
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gertie
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #16 on Feb 1, 2010, 4:47am » | |
Global warming? Didn't you get the memo? It's a farce. The private emails of the leading group of scientists on this were released. When their models of weather didn't predict global warming, they changed them to make it look that way as any science that says no to global warming won't get funded, particularly in the US.
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #17 on Feb 1, 2010, 3:56pm » | |
We went to Brussels a few years ago, when the Eurostar was still leaving from Waterloo Station.
On the way in, it took us a little under 4 hours to get to Waterloo Station (it takes about 3h to Paddington Station) then Brussels was only 1.5 hours away. After a wonderful weekend with friends involving good food and digestive walks in the old town at midnight, the train journey back home from London took ... SEVEN hours instead of the 4.5 planned, due to works on the railtracks.
At this stage I think I might want to warn any of you travelling by train in England on a Sunday that any given Sunday can be deemed suitable for railtrack works. Ensuing replacement bus journeys are often an adventure in itself. If you ever find yourselves in this situation, concentrate on discovering the local landscape. it will save your sanity.
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #18 on Jun 7, 2010, 10:11am » | |
We used it a few times to visit Paris and Lille when it left from Waterloo. It was so unbeliveably quick and easy as we live 30 minutes from Waterloo just a quick tube journey and hop on a train and you are in another country.
Being at St Pancreas has added another 45minutes or so on, which isn't a huge but with tube and bus changes needed to get there it seems longer.
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kerouac2
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #19 on Feb 13, 2011, 6:12am » | |
The current state of affairs.
![[image]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/83/High_Speed_Railroad_Map_Europe_2011.png "[image]")
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gertie
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #20 on Feb 17, 2011, 12:50pm » | |
Considering the limited passenger rail lines in the US, that looks pretty good to me. We do have passenger rail lines, but I've never found them useful. As an example, I looked when we were traveling to Florida. Rail took twice the number of days as the bus, which took four times as long as flying, and rail cost more than a bus. Airline tickets were about the same as the bus, but took only hours. My understanding is the problem is there are few US lines where it would be profitable to run dedicated passenger trains. A great deal of the extra time is spent waiting for them to add and remove shipping cars. If we lived up around New York City and Washington DC, there are some dedicated lines that run directly to Florida in less time than they could drive it for very reasonable rates. You can even bring your car on the train for a pretty reasonable fee.
I was pretty amazed when they decided to dig the tunnel for the Eurostar and whatnot. Not that it is a bad idea, I just found it a little surprising they deemed it worthwhile financially. From an engineering standpoint, it must have been a really interesting project. Despite the drawbacks such as time spent getting to and from the stations where it loads, I think I'd like to ride it just once if I had the chance.
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onlymark
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #21 on Feb 17, 2011, 1:26pm » | |
I only went through the tunnel on the train once.
It went dark and then went light.
That was about it.
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patricklondon
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #22 on Feb 21, 2011, 12:38pm » | |
Quote:| I just found it a little surprising they deemed it worthwhile financially |
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Depends how you calculate it. It was supposed to be self-financing in the basic sense of user fees paying off the construction costs, though how long that will take, I have no idea. But in terms of wider economic benefits, and less directly identifiable psycho-socio-cultural adjustments (e.g., boosting the whole idea of expanding rail as against air travel generally).. almost certainly a plus.
And time getting to and from the stations is much less of a worry than airport hassles.
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kerouac2
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| | Re: The Eurostar and Europe
« Reply #23 on Feb 21, 2011, 2:43pm » | |
Actually, back when France was #1 in high speed rail, I read that the reason for this is because it was the only country willing to make such long term investments in infrastructure -- I think I read that it was 70 years at one time. Most countries demand quicker financial returns. Either other countries like Spain have made the same decisions as France, or else --more likely-- investment costs have been reduced because of technological advances and there is also a faster payback due to the generalization of high speed rail travel, particularly on more lucrative international sectors.
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