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kerouac2
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British health care
« Thread Started on Sept 9, 2011, 5:51pm »

True? False?

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auntieannie
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Re: British health care
« Reply #1 on Sept 9, 2011, 6:27pm »

Really difficult subject. No simple answer.

I am personally of two minds on that one, having grown up in a country where you pay for everything re your health and where the insurance companies do everything in their power to pay as little as possible back (which is the way insurance companies work, let's be clear).

Here in the UK people are used to get everything for free (I was offered help to pay a box of paracetamol when I was in full time employment, living with a partner in full time employment and we had nobody to care for ::)

) and any changes to this situation generates public outcry.

I do think the NHS is a wonderful thing. I believe it needs some kind of re-think as there simply isn't enough to go around; It is a huge administrative white elephant.

However too many agree that the current NHS revision goes too far in the wrong direction.

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Dans les grandes choses, les hommes se montrent comme il leur convient de se montrer; dans les petites, ils se montrent comme ils sont.

cheerypeabrain
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Re: British health care
« Reply #2 on Sept 9, 2011, 7:39pm »

I've worked for the NHS for almost 25 years for my sins. I totally believe in the principal of free health care for all. It's immoral to make money out of sick people isn't it?

I haven't got a clue how we can keep the NHS going, the hospital trust that I work for is desperately trying to save money. As members of staff leave their posts are frozen, staff have been 'asked' to move to more flexible ways of working and have already started a shift pattern that will become a full 24/7 shift system in April 2012. No overtime, no bank staff and new ways of working....it is a very difficult time.

We continue to provide a service, I hope that it's to a high standard, but we're tired, overworked and unappreciated. As far as the British public seem to be concerned the NHS is run completely by Nurses and Doctors and governments do nothing to educate them any differently. There are many allied health care professionals essential to Patient care, not just biomedical scientists like myself, but radiographers, medical physics technicians, physiotherapists etc etc...our work is essential too.

The C.E.O. does little to instill confidence in his employees, inflammatory press releases to the local newspaper recently stated that the hospitals 'Might not be able to pay the employees in August' nothing was mentioned beforehand on the hospital website. It's almost as if those in charge want the system to fail.

We all think that there's a hidden agenda afoot, where a 2-tier system will be introduced, the NHS needs to be self funding so the government can stop chucking money at it and spend it more wisely (on Bankers and politicians ?).

As it is our pathology department is in the process being merged with one in a neighbouring city. My department shouldn't be affected too much because there has to be a blood transfusion department on site in an accute hospital.

Efficiency is a good thing and there is a lot of waste in the organisation. BUT rationalisation should be undertaken in a sensitive and logical manner...not in the hit and miss blunderbus fashion that seems to be happening atm.

I'm not a manager, I don't have the knowledge and skills to come up with a solution...(but niether do the managers or politicians it seems to me). I'll do my best, I'll change to these horrid continental shifts (0700-1500, 1500-2300, 2300-0700) because I don't want to lose my job. I'll stay late and go in early to cover so that my colleague can hand over properly (no overlap of shifts), I'll go without a break because there's no one to cover (to allow us to do 24/7 we're spread very thinly, often lone working)...altho you can be certain that the 'statutory' break will be unpaid.

NHS employees are loyal to the service and the Patients. I love my job. I'm too old to retrain in another profession outside the NHS. So I'll grit my teeth and carry on whilst my employers earn considerably more than me, work 9-5 and get bank holidays and weekends off.....bitter...? a little bit yes.

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kerouac2
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Re: British health care
« Reply #3 on Sept 9, 2011, 8:00pm »

I do not know enough about British health care to have a valid opinion, but the thing that I have read about and wonder about is the waiting time for so many procedures. As you know, quite a lot of British cross the channel to get things done in France while still being covered by the NHS -- and yet in France, we think that our health care is being stretched too thin as well, although the waiting periods are much shorter unless you are waiting for an elusive organ transplant and have to hope for a road accident.

The French go abroad for a lot of things, too, but normally not "necessary" things -- they get their teeth redone in Hungary or their cosmetic surgery in Mexico or their sex changed in Morocco, but they don't really need to go anywhere for vital health care.

« Last Edit: Sept 9, 2011, 8:00pm by kerouac2 »

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cheerypeabrain
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Re: British health care
« Reply #4 on Sept 9, 2011, 8:19pm »

I can't see a way out really. :-/

Sorry about the moaning.....it's not objective or useful.

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auntieannie
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Re: British health care
« Reply #5 on Sept 9, 2011, 8:40pm »

oooh! HUGS, CPB! big big hugs! Your situation makes me want to fight more. Once I am trained, I'd love to actually work for the NHS, if they let me. Because I believe in a fair system.
In another life, I was a project manager... but I wouldn't know where to start to make the system fair AND sustainable. Although I have a few ideas of what to do with those who shamelessly abuse the system. Grrrr!

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Dans les grandes choses, les hommes se montrent comme il leur convient de se montrer; dans les petites, ils se montrent comme ils sont.

myrt
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Re: British health care
« Reply #6 on Sept 9, 2011, 8:42pm »

Entirely understandable Cheery - it must be immensely frustrating for you. It makes me fume and rant at the ridiculous, lying posturing of our politicians as they plot to dismantle our beloved NHS and I am not working in amongst all their cuts, incompetence and schemes..trying to cope with all the changes, deal with all the clueless bureaucrats whilst actually doing stuff like saving people's lives and helping the sick and infirm.

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auntieannie
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Re: British health care
« Reply #7 on Sept 9, 2011, 9:41pm »

Kerouac used the word "necessary" and I think this should be looked at closely. I think they are cutting things that are necessary and allowing payment on "unnecessary things" but then who am I to make that judgement? Who can indeed decide what is necessary and what isn't?

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Dans les grandes choses, les hommes se montrent comme il leur convient de se montrer; dans les petites, ils se montrent comme ils sont.

kerouac2
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Re: British health care
« Reply #8 on Sept 9, 2011, 10:24pm »

Well, I was using the idea basically as "life-threatening" vs. "non life-threatening" -- but I'm sure that all of us can think of at least a dozen debatable medical conditions that could justifiably be placed in either group.

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onlymark
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Re: British health care
« Reply #9 on Sept 10, 2011, 7:54am »

There is plenty of money in the NHS. It's that it is spent unwisely on equipment and services and wasted on numerous things like being tied into a contract with a certain supplier.
It'd be an idea to employ a boss who has a remit to shake up all this - but only if the boss dealt with the pure administrative side and had no power over anything that affected the actual health care side of it like closing hospitals etc - purely the supply and bureaucracy.

Someone like Michael O'Leary.

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bjd
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Re: British health care
« Reply #10 on Sept 10, 2011, 8:25am »

May I throw into this thread the idea that all those politicians/sheiks from 3rd world countries, oil rich or not, should stay in their own countries for medical care and not be able to go to the States or Britain or France while their own countries have wretched health systems most citizens can't afford to use.

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cheerypeabrain
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Re: British health care
« Reply #11 on Sept 14, 2011, 10:13am »

Well....so much for moaning about waiting lists....

My OH had to give up work in June because of health problems. After years of being fobbed off by our family doctor he was referred to a Consultant at one of the local hospitals...that was in August, since then he's had x-rays, ultrasound scans and blood tests...today we got a phone call to say that he can have his op next Tuesday! We were expecting to wait at least 2-3 months...but because he's in so much pain they've fitted him in quite quickly. He'll need other operations but I'm quite impressed. It has nothing to do with the fact that I work in the same area health authority...because they don't know anything about me...so I'm not 'pulling strings'. Luckily I have annual leave next week anyway...sorted.

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kerouac2
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Re: British health care
« Reply #12 on Sept 14, 2011, 10:42am »

I was amazed to phone a medical center in Paris on Friday to see a specialist, and I was given an appointment for Tuesday. I was expecting to wait at least a month, even in France.

Good luck for your OH's operation, CPB!

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tod2
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Re: British health care
« Reply #13 on Sept 14, 2011, 12:10pm »

cheeryPB - I am so happy for you and OH! Lets hope everything goes well ( which I'm sure it will as the surgeons are probably South Africans - joke!) Please keep us posted.

Kerouac - I'm worried.

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auntieannie
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Re: British health care
« Reply #14 on Sept 14, 2011, 4:01pm »

yey for CPB's OH! Wishing him a safe, uneventful op and a swift painless recovery.

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mickthecactus
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Re: British health care
« Reply #15 on Sept 15, 2011, 4:19pm »

Sept 9, 2011, 6:27pm, auntieannie wrote:

Re insurance companies - not always true auntieannie...

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cheerypeabrain
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Re: British health care
« Reply #16 on Sept 21, 2011, 9:47am »

Well..my OH was in surgery for 3 hours yesterday having a massive-rotator-cuff-repair op...all went well and he's now home. Strapped up and behaving like a naughty two year old...he wants to carry on as normal (is it a man thing?) but can't....

The operation went so well that they strapped him up and allowed him home last night. After a very difficult night where niether of us got any sleep he's just dropped off on the recliner chair...so I daren't move in case I wake him up....

Honestly...I ent been this tired since we had newborn babies... ::)

but he'd be just as attentive if the roles were reversed...and he is a sweetie. Just infuriatingly independent....

You should see the surgical stockings....very fetching...

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kerouac2
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Re: British health care
« Reply #17 on Sept 21, 2011, 9:59am »

Normally we men overplay our illnesses to get as much service as possible. You may have to tie him down if he is playing 'delerious strongman' but that's probably just a scheme so that you'll have to do even more for him.

I'm glad the operation went well.

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cheerypeabrain
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Re: British health care
« Reply #18 on Sept 21, 2011, 10:35am »

Thank you dearie...it is a relief to have him home. So scary to know that somebody you adore if being hacked at with a scalpel...orthopaedic surgery involves all sorts of strange instruments of torture...I hear that a drill was used...eek...so wonder he's in pain.

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auntieannie
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Re: British health care
« Reply #19 on Sept 21, 2011, 11:20am »

glad it all went well, CPB! hoping you can find time to rest. xxx

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Dans les grandes choses, les hommes se montrent comme il leur convient de se montrer; dans les petites, ils se montrent comme ils sont.

cheerypeabrain
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Re: British health care
« Reply #20 on Sept 21, 2011, 11:28am »

Thank you medear....I don't have to go back to work for 8 days so hopefully at some point I'll catch up...hopefully he'll be in less pain soon.

« Last Edit: Sept 21, 2011, 11:29am by cheerypeabrain »

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tillystar
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Re: British health care
« Reply #21 on Sept 21, 2011, 1:38pm »

If you are employed you have to pay £7.50 for prescriptions surely...a box of paracetamol costs about £1 so you’d not save a thing surely? The value of a prescription is only if it is free because you are unemployed or a child or elderly etc or the cost of the medication is more than the £7.50 cost of the prescription.

I’ve never had anything but good experiences from the NHS when anyone in my family or I have needed their services, maybe I’ve been very lucky/live in a good health authority..but I tend to think that some of the things people complain about is because they expect too much (obviously not always, not referring to your partner’s situation and your family doctor’s failure to spot what was wrong CPB).

Totally with Mark on them getting their act together on the procurement/admin side.

One thing I fail to understand is why people don’t have to pay for their food when in hospital. I can understand dispensations for unemployed people/long term patients, but we all pay for our food at home so why waste millions of pounds feeding inpatients.

I’d understand if the NHS supplied food because they wanted to manage the nutrition of their patients, but they don’t. They spend a bomb on feeding inedible, unsuitable slop to the patients (chips, sausages and buttered rolls to heart patients!) rather than get someone in to create a healthy menu that patients can pay for at a very low cost...if Jamie Oliver can do it for schools it can’t be that bloody hard.

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onlymark
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Re: British health care
« Reply #22 on Sept 21, 2011, 2:01pm »

My dealings with the NHS have been not good in the times I've needed them. Not because of the people but because of the system. When I compare it to the health service in Germany, which relies on Insurance companies, it failed to come up to scratch.

A small example is when I had a cyst on my stomach that needed to be drained and stitched up. It took months from the first contact to the resolution.
A few years later I had exactly the same thing in the small of my back, but was living in Germany. It took nine days from the initial meeting with the doctor to the operation.

In the Police I spent many hours in hospitals, usually AandE, and was always disappointed by the hurdles the staff had to go through, disappointed for them as they were trying to do their utmost but often were constrained by procedure and regulation.

I tried a few years ago when in the UK to make an appointment to see my doctor who I am still registered with. I phoned the surgery to be told I couldn't make one. The story I understood is that the doctors were required to see a patient within 48 hours(?) of them requesting it. However, if the appointment book was full for the next two days you couldn't make one for the third or later days as this was over the 48 hour limit.
So to stick to that limit they were only taking them if you could be seen within the time limit. If not you had to keep phoning every day to see if there was a vacancy.

I could be wrong but that's how I remember it.
And don't let me start on the treatment my mother received. We'd be here all day.

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auntieannie
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Re: British health care
« Reply #23 on Sept 21, 2011, 2:31pm »

Well, Tilly I was only recollecting an event as it happened about the box of paracetamol. When the employee at the pharmacy asked me I looked at her with bewildered eyes. I must say the pharmacy was between the surgery and the main road and I had a prescription... but hum... still really silly in my eyes.

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Dans les grandes choses, les hommes se montrent comme il leur convient de se montrer; dans les petites, ils se montrent comme ils sont.

kerouac2
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Re: British health care
« Reply #24 on Sept 21, 2011, 2:36pm »

Sausages in a hospital?

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tod2
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Re: British health care
« Reply #25 on Sept 21, 2011, 2:37pm »

Cheery, I am so glad it's all over and things will improve as soon as the healing is done. I little bit of spoiling always makes them get well faster

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mickthecactus
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Re: British health care
« Reply #26 on Sept 22, 2011, 2:29pm »

Good to hear it's OK Cheery.

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kerouac2
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Re: British health care
« Reply #27 on Sept 22, 2011, 4:49pm »

Is he still ~~cranky~~ in pain?

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cheerypeabrain
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Re: British health care
« Reply #28 on Sept 22, 2011, 5:45pm »

OH is still in a lot of pain, but is learning how to move carefully. I think it's getting easier....he might sleep in the bed tonight instead of the recliner. He's being careful not to be cranky today because it's my birthday and our 34th wedding anniversary

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kerouac2
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Re: British health care
« Reply #29 on Sept 22, 2011, 5:56pm »

Congratulations, cpb! And happy birthday!

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