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Any Port in a Storm :: On the Plaza :: Where Words Collide :: mispronunciations
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AuthorTopic: mispronunciations (Read 978 times)
bixaorellana
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #30 on Aug 30, 2011, 3:53pm »		[Quote]

Aug 30, 2011, 12:42pm, mickthecactus wrote:
The Clampett treatment! Brilliant! (I can just see you as Elly Mae Bixa)

;)   I'm more of a Moonbeam McSwine type, but thanks!
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mickthecactus
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #31 on Aug 30, 2011, 4:27pm »		[Quote]
At least I didn't say Grandma................ ;D
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mickthecactus
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #32 on Aug 31, 2011, 7:59am »		[Quote]

Aug 30, 2011, 3:53pm, bixaorellana wrote:

Aug 30, 2011, 12:42pm, mickthecactus wrote:
The Clampett treatment! Brilliant! (I can just see you as Elly Mae Bixa)

;)   I'm more of a Moonbeam McSwine type, but thanks!


Of course, I had absolutely no idea who Moonbeam McSwine was - but I do now......

I think it suits you..
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bixaorellana
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #33 on Sept 1, 2011, 1:38am »		[Quote]
[image]
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kimby
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #34 on Sept 6, 2011, 9:23pm »		[Quote]
bixa's Clampett-speak examples remind me of a regional "mispronounciation" of insurance.

Where I grew up and where I live now, it's pronounced with the accent on the 2nd syllable: in SHUR ance. But I have met plenty of people who say IN-shur-ence.

BTW, isn't it interesting that it's as easy to mispronounce "mispronunciation" as it is to mis-spell mispelling/misspelling?
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kerouac2
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #35 on Sept 7, 2011, 9:09pm »		[Quote]
There is a new weatherman on the morning news who is driving me up the wall. He replaces every A with an O.

But I don't know if it is a regional accent for somewhere in France or a pathological condition.
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hwinpp
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #36 on Sept 8, 2011, 5:08am »		[Quote]
Bonjour mesdomes et messieurs, montenont je vous presents le temps...
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kerouac2
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #37 on Sept 8, 2011, 5:09am »		[Quote]
That is pretty much what it sounds like.
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ninchursanga
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #38 on Sept 29, 2011, 2:02am »		[Quote]
What about understanding mispronounciations?
As a non-native speaker I sometimes put the intonation on the wrong syllable and this seems to have a tremendous effect whether a native-speaker can understand me or not.

For instance, two weeks ago I had my car towed and on the phone with parking authorities the lady simply couldn't understand me. She wanted to know the car brand to which I replied "It's a SuBAru."
This I repeated about ten times and she claimed never to have heard of it. Until I spelled it out, which was when she exlaimes 'Oh, it's a SUbaru.'

That weekend I talked to some other non-native speakers and each of them had a similar example. One being "Water" and "Oh, you want a wodr' and someone booking a ticket to OtTAwa, CN who was told such a place didn't exist.

What boggles my mind is that all of these took place in situations where you could also gain some understanding from the context.

How difficult do you find it to understand someone who mispronounces a word? Most of all, when someone put the intonation on the wrong syllable?
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ninchursanga
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #39 on Sept 29, 2011, 2:04am »		[Quote]
btw. I had a similar probem when I spoke Dutch, in the first few years. However, in Holland I was never met with a blank stare, much rather with a giggle and a correction of my mispronounced word.
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fumobici
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #40 on Sept 29, 2011, 3:27am »		[Quote]
Words stressed on the wrong syllable are for me frequently gibberish- even with context. And in English it's horribly random which one to hit. In French or Italian you've at least got a fighting chance. Then there's the ridiculous number of random possible pronunciations of vowels and the frequently nonsensical spellings.

I feel for anyone wanting to learn to learn English, it must be terrible.
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kerouac2
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #41 on Oct 2, 2011, 9:22pm »		[Quote]
It appeared to me that my mother spoke perfect unaccented English (actually other people could hear her accent but not I), but one day she came out with the word per-SU-aid and it took awhile to understand that she was saying "persuade".
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ssander
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #42 on Dec 11, 2011, 1:13pm »		[Quote]
I too, go crazy about some pronounciations -- Q-pon, included. However, as a Philadelphian who drinks wawrter, I can't complain too much.

Not to put a damper on everyone's anger, but until relatively recently (late 18th-early 19th c.) neither pronunciations nor spellings were expected to be standard.

For instance, the "b" in debt was added at about that time because of the perceived relation of the word to Latin. Until then it was not generally used -- nor should it have been from a pronunciation standpoint.

Textbook pronunciations (and grammar) are how the experts WISH the language to be.

Pronunciation constantly evolves toward ease and simplicity. "An historic" with the soft or non-existent hard H is a prime example. It's just easier to say than A HISTORIC.

BTW: My pet peeve is a grammar one - people who say, "between you and I." It should be, "between you and me." -- the objective case. But to be honest, cases generally are used in languages in which word order does not matter, such as Latin, but are logically unecessary in languages where it does such as English.

I hit him or He hit me. (Word order matters, so you don't logically need to distinguish bewteen I and me or between he and him)


So-called correct grammar -- and not just English grammar -- often is illogical -- isn't it? I am right -- aren't I? See the illogicality in the previous sentence? It should be either, "I am right -- amn't I?" or, "I are right -- aren't I?" for consistency.

Note: The word "ain't" is historically a gramatically correct contraction for "am not" -- evolved from the contraction "amn't" -- so people who say "I ain't" are gramatically correct, while those who say "you ain't" or "he ain't" are not.

Rant over!
SS

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ssander
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #43 on Dec 11, 2011, 1:24pm »		[Quote]
One more thing - and this is directed at Kerouac -- who probably knows more about this:

Most American French students are stymied by the use of "pas" [step] in French negation. They think it is un-needed and makes no sense, as if that sort of thing never happens in English.

Historically, I believe it is there for emphasis in negation - "not a step" meaning "not a bit." (BTW - It now seems to be evolving to mean negation all by itself -- without the "ne" or "n'")

But we do the same thing in negation in English.

I like cake.
I do not like cake.

See the un-needed word? The word "do" is an unecessary addition for negative emphasis.

For consistency, it should be:

I like cake.
I not like cake.

SS
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #44 on Dec 11, 2011, 10:35pm »		[Quote]
I like cake, not.
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onlymark
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #45 on Dec 11, 2011, 10:40pm »		[Quote]
"between you and me." ...................... between me and you.
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #46 on Dec 11, 2011, 10:49pm »		[Quote]
evolved from the contraction "amn't" ....................... never heard that or used it as far as I know. So after a bit of looking at it I found it is favoured by the Irish and the Scottish when speaking English.
That says it all really. Not proper English speakers, like what I am.
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ssander
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #47 on Dec 12, 2011, 2:04pm »		[Quote]
onlyMark...

I had forgotten the construction "I eat cake not" or "I like it not" -- which, at one time, was pretty standard...and, in fact, in the US it is used in the phrase, "I kid you not." So, we really could survive without the added "do." :)

Re: amn't...I first learned about that years ago watching the Lord Peter Whimsey (spelling?) mysteries on TV, where "ain't" was used by clearly educated people. The introduction of one of the episodes said that "ain't" was used as a form of "amn't" by the upper classes in the 1920's - I forget why it became popular (maybe mocking the Irish/Scottish) and then went out of favor. ..or maybe for emphasis as in the US construction: "...ain't gonna happen!" when you really want the person to know you're serious about not doing something.

SS
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imec
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #48 on Dec 12, 2011, 2:09pm »		[Quote]
I recall hearing members of a Scottish family i know use "amn't" when I was about 9 - had never heard it before and haven't since.
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #49 on Dec 12, 2011, 3:28pm »		[Quote]
When I first arrived in Paris, I had an Irish colleague who said amn't.
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mickthecactus
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #50 on Dec 12, 2011, 3:31pm »		[Quote]

Dec 12, 2011, 3:28pm, kerouac2 wrote:
When I first arrived in Paris, I had an Irish colleague who said amn't.


He probably said he fecking amn't... ;D
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kerouac2
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #51 on Dec 12, 2011, 3:33pm »		[Quote]

Dec 11, 2011, 1:24pm, ssander wrote:
One more thing - and this is directed at Kerouac -- who probably knows more about this:

Most American French students are stymied by the use of "pas" [step] in French negation. They think it is un-needed and makes no sense, as if that sort of thing never happens in English.
SS


But "pas" is just one form of negation. There is also guère (hardly) "Je n'ai guère mangé de frites." -- or plus (no more) "Je n'ai plus de chocolat"

.... among others. :)
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kerouac2
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #52 on Dec 12, 2011, 3:34pm »		[Quote]

Dec 12, 2011, 3:31pm, mickthecactus wrote:

Dec 12, 2011, 3:28pm, kerouac2 wrote:
When I first arrived in Paris, I had an Irish colleague who said amn't.


He probably said he fecking amn't... ;D


She was a sweet young woman. :D
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mickthecactus
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #53 on Dec 12, 2011, 3:38pm »		[Quote]

Dec 12, 2011, 3:34pm, kerouac2 wrote:

Dec 12, 2011, 3:31pm, mickthecactus wrote:


He probably said he fecking amn't... ;D


She was a sweet young woman. :D


She probably said it too.... ;)
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patricklondon
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Re: mispronunciations
« Reply #54 on Dec 14, 2011, 8:20am »		[Quote]

Quote:
For consistency, it should be:

I like cake.
I not like cake


But language is never wholly consistent, since it's affected by its historical origins, and different perceptions at different times of what is "correct" or euphonious or just how whoever's considered poshest speaks. English offers a multiplicity of all of those!

This is an interesting example, because until well into the eighteenth century, it wasn't uncommon to find the usage "I like it not" as a simple negative. I suspect the longer and more involved the object of the sentence was, the more people thought it unpleasing and confusing to have the operative word "not" pushed ever further back in the sentence, so if that ever was a "rule" it would have died soon enough. I think there are examples of people saying "I like not cake", but since the same time "Do" was used as an imperative form ("Do you hang out the laundry!"), so its use as an emphasiser of the negative wouldn't have seemed strange.

"I like cake.......NOT" is a very recent (re)invention, surely - (is it from Ferris Bueller or somewhere about that time?)
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