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Post by Jazz on May 31, 2010 21:24:23 GMT
Some thoughts about renting an inexpensive studio or apartment in Paris. My experience is limited to renting only 5 different times, but I enjoyed each in a different way. All were 500Eweek (615USD) and less. If rented for 3 weeks to month, this can be much cheaper and you will sometimes be offered the apartment or studio for 800-1200E/month. This becomes very affordable, 27E-40E/night. ( 33-50USD)
The most valuable and pleasurable thing to do is to go online and search yourself, to get a feel for the different sites and possibilities. The more you read, the more you will understand the whole system. It is both overwhelming and exciting. This will be your ‘home’ for a week or a month and is worth the time. We each have individual standards and requirements. Developing a sense of each part of an arrondissement is significant.
ie: parts of the 5th are beautiful but I wouldn’t even think of renting on rue de la Harpe.
ie: Montmartre is much maligned (as too touristy and too far away), but people are usually upset about the 6 square blocks surrounding Sacre Coeur and Place du Tertre. They are also apparently unaware of the excellent metro system, or don’t like to walk. There is so much beauty and vitality in the other 90% of the 18th. Rue Caulaincourt and rue de Martyrs immediately come to mind.
The prices seemed to be aligned with these factors.
1. Season: Often cheaper in low to mid-season and most ads will indicate this.
2. Location: It seems to be accepted that the better deals are to be found in the double digit arrondissments, with the exception of the 16th. The rationale is that arr. 1-9 are closer to the key tourist attractions. ? Regardless of what you consider’ important’, you may want to consider the walkability of Paris, the Velib bicycle system and its excellent Metro. Within the city centre, metro stations are no more than 500m apart. People often forget the buses, which are included in your metro pass. They are a delightful means of getting around and afford a rest from walking and a free tour. Some are simply beautiful, ie: the #69. If you find a possible apt., go to google maps and check the immediate area for the ambience of the neighborhood.
3. Size and beauty: This is the most personal of all and you may pay accordingly. Most days in Paris, I am out and about for 8-12 hours and thus need less of both, especially space. Beauty is significant to a degree. I don’t want to come home to a dump or an Ikea clone that could be found anywhere. Most of all, I enjoy an apartment that seems to be like what I think has the charm of a Parisian home, with all its quirks.
4. Stairs vs elevator: Elevators add to the price. If you are good with stairs, you will find some great deals. For those of you with problems, remember that the Parisian First floor is what North Americans think of as the second floor.
4. Balconies, terraces and gardens: Add to the price. With all of the gorgeous parks and squares in Paris, and given that you are out most of the time, why pay for this?
5. Air conditioning: Add to the price. I have rented in June, July and September without air conditioning. Two of the places had fans which were fine. The other, I went and bought a cheap fan at BVH.
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Post by Jazz on May 31, 2010 21:32:26 GMT
There are thousands of rental sites, but as you research, it becomes obvious that most are geared to a certain price range and specialize in certain arrondissements. You will have a broader choice if you access the French sites as well, many of the English only deal with 1-9 and tend to be more expensive. There are no guarantees, you need to be intelligent and hope that it will work out. If cautious, pay attention to reviews and advice which are covered in a post to come. I enjoyed all of my studios/apts. Here are two of them, but I’m not of sure the price today, www.frenchyrentals.com/maitrealbert.htmlThis was quoted at 500E/wk and rented to me for 1,100E/month. While small, it was lovely and the location was superb! On a 13th century small street, a 3 minute walk to the Seine and the two islands and a 3 minute walk to the ancient market, Place Maubert. mapage.noos.fr/dbrc/indexenglish.htm 475E/wk-875Emonth (the middle one) And, another thought, www.perfectplaces.com/vacation-rentals/38447.htmThese sites are excellent for budget rentals: (300-500E/week) 1. www.vrbo.com/vacation-rentals/europe/france/ile-de-france/parisThis is a huge site and a good place to begin. It covers the spectrum from high to low end and all of the arrondissments. 2. www.homelidays.co.uk/3. www.rentparis.com/home.php?l=en 4. vacation.lodgis.com/en/paris/5. www.perfectplaces.com/6. rentalo.com/vacation-rentals/paris/7. www.rentparis.com/home.php?l=en8. www.waytostay.com/0-bedroom-Paris-apartments-en-109.htm9. www.centreparis.com/ 10. www.homeaway.com/search/keywords:paris%2C+france |
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Post by Jazz on May 31, 2010 21:38:42 GMT
David Liebovitz has a good beginners practical guide for how to search for your apartment, with some excellent recommended sites, www.davidlebovitz.com/archives/2008/05/renting_an_apar.htmlAt the same time, check the travel forums for personal recommendations and input. The forums vary in terms of the money spent on apartments. These are the ones that I read: ThornTree: caters most to low budget, you will need to search, www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/forum.jspa?forumID=27&keywordid=119OurParisVariations: Excellent detailed apartment board with personal descriptions and often photos, www.ourparisforum.com/index.cgi?board=apartmentsFodor’s: higher budget, with the odd 'find', but has a great apartment thread, www.fodors.com/community/europe/paris-apartment-thread.cfmTripAdvisor: same as Fodor's, with another great apartment thread, www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g187147-i14-k2630803-Paris_apartments_your_experiences-Paris_Ile_de_France.html |
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Post by lagatta on May 31, 2010 22:33:55 GMT
Another one that is very good, but tends to be too pricy for me, is Slow Travel www.slowtrav.com - They are even more centred on rentals in Italy and southern France - houses and farmstays as much as flats - but do have quite a few Parisian and other French urban listings, and very good advice. One exception to what you say about a terrace or balcony is if the person renting is a smoker, as most self-catering rentals are non-smoking nowadays. A vegetarian friend was delighted that I insist that he chose self-catering. Sure, I was able to look up some good places with vegetarian options, but it is so much easier to find lovely non-meat ingredients in markets and supermarkets than be sure to find something decent to eat. He does eat cheese, fortunately. I'd be hard put to find good vegan options in Paris. |
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Post by Jazz on May 31, 2010 23:21:20 GMT
Lagatta, I did forget about Slow Travel and it is another very good site. Your point about smokers is good... a somewhat cheaper alternative is to look for a place with a courtyard. (hopefully, not 6 floors to the ground level (!), as I once had. ;D) Good thought for the vegan visitor, the meal at home is perfect. I am not vegetarian and don't quite understand how difficult it might be. But, I love to shop at the markets and small stores and cook about every third or fourth dinner at the apartment and each day, a light breakfast.
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Post by Jazz on Jun 1, 2010 0:26:19 GMT
Hostels and Bed & Breakfasts: While they are obviously not apartments or studios, hostels are a good budget alternative. They don’t interest me because they lack privacy… my own kitchen, bathroom and bedroom. Their only great advantage is access to other travelers, since (if you choose carefully), they are not cheaper than a studio or apartment. If I were to stay in a Paris hostel, these are the two I like, www.st-christophers.co.uk/paris-hostelsBeautifully situated on the Canal Saint Martin in the 19th arrondissement. www.mije.com/also lovely, 17th century, in the Marais. I haven’t researched B&B’s much, but do think this site is lovely, but not that inexpensive, www.bed-and-breakfast-in-paris.com/Dicillin.php? |
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Post by lola on Jun 1, 2010 0:49:45 GMT
Jazz, coincidentally today I linked your inexpensive Paris hotels thread in response to question on Fodors. How I'd like to take this as a sign that I should indeed use my BA miles and buzz over there twice this year, once per daughter. I'm in the middle of deciding how self indulgent that would be. (Very vs. Incredibly)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 1, 2010 5:19:09 GMT
Absolutely fantastic research, Jazz. One of the best things about all of the various travel sites is that there are enough people constantly fantasizing over trips to various places to do a lot of the pre-research for other people who don't have the time or the inclination for that. You should charge commission!
For people thinking of settling in Paris for the long haul (a year or more), one of the first things to know is that non-temporary apartments are almost always rented completely unfurnished.
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Post by Jazz on Jun 1, 2010 22:20:06 GMT
...How I'd like to take this as a sign that I should indeed use my BA miles and buzz over there twice this year, once per daughter. I'm in the middle of deciding how self indulgent that would be. (Very vs. Incredibly) Yes, this is a ‘sign’.  Not at all self indulgent. This is a very special year and you should be a part of the excitement. Do you really want to sit at home and read letters and postcards and look at endless photos online of the reality? Start researching tonight! K, I've already had 5 'placements' with invitations to visit. ;D errr...it seems that with friends and 'friends of friends', I am everyone's new best friend. |
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Post by lagatta on Jun 2, 2010 0:33:55 GMT
That looks lovely and coresponds to what I seek as I am actually more interested in eastern Paris, as that is where most of my friends live (those who remain within the city). But I don't know what kind of guarantees either party had...
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LouisXIV
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Post by LouisXIV on Jul 12, 2010 18:04:02 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2010 18:10:52 GMT
It looks quite basic, but that is often exactly what certain people need.
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LouisXIV
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Post by LouisXIV on Jul 12, 2010 19:15:59 GMT
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Post by lagatta on Jul 13, 2010 0:59:20 GMT
It is very cheap, but I don't see anything about meal prep and storage - (tiny kitchenette with a couple of burners, perhaps a microwave or mini-oven, fridge) in either size. Not being able to prepare and conserve basic foodstuffs adds a lot for people on a strict budget. Probably they expect people to eat in restos-U. Yecch! Beurrrkkk!
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Post by lagatta on Jul 13, 2010 1:20:25 GMT
I like this one - I have friends almost next door and know all the shops. Of course as always they provide absurd walking times from métro stations - the three metro stations cited are very close, but three-minute walk? Come on. www.centreparis.com/location-paris/annelets/fiche-121.html And it is truly weird to talk about la Contrescarpe at the other end of Paris. Cut-and-paste. Without being luxurious, it is spacious, and only one flight of stairs to climb. And it has both an oven and a microwave. That is a wee oven, but fine for heating up Picard frozen foods and stuff from traiteurs that you don't want made soggy by the microwave. Though I do wish they had WiFi rather than the telly and hi-fi. It makes work and correspondence so much easier. |
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Post by Jazz on Jul 13, 2010 4:47:13 GMT
Thanks, Louis. Your studio is basic and a very inexpensive price for Paris!.
Good choice Lagatta. Throughout the sites, I find a similar lack of information (misleading?) re: basic issues…nearby metro stops, 5 minutes from some major tourist place etc. I do find that most of the CentreParis studio/apts tend to look the same, but they are excellent value. The WIFI issue is important for some travelers and with many of the less expensive sites, it isn’t provided.
Back to the discussion of renting in Paris. When first confronted by so many rental sites, one can easily be overwhelmed. I was. I think it’s good to research several sites and come to know each of them. They will vary in terms of price range, arrondissements covered, methods of payment etc. Some charge agency fees. This is not common and should be avoided unless you are in love with the place. It can add 30% to the cost. It is essential to pay attention to the ‘fine print’ of payment, security deposit, cleaning fees etc. Unless you need an apartment in Paris in the next week (!), you have time to research, talk to others online, and develop a sense of the various sites with their specialties and price ranges. It is easy to find a beautiful apartment in Paris if you have an unlimited budget. In this thread we are thinking ‘Budget’…500E/week and
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Post by Jazz on Jul 13, 2010 5:41:12 GMT
Here are a few random suggestions for studios for 1 or 2 people. The price range is from 700E/month to 1,500E/month. (925-1890 USD/month). Arrondissements 1-4…Marais, Les Halles: 1. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/1030837-rue-des-gravilliers-apartment/2. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/10410460-rue-de-birague-apartment/3. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/10410857-rue-de-la-cerisaie-apartment/4. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/2047421-rue-ferdinand-duval-apartment/5. studio.provaction.com/paris_apartments/rentals_montorgueil/studio_montorgueil_luciole.php#5,6,7 arr…Latin Quarter, Saint Germain: 1. www.frenchyrentals.com/maitrealbert.html2. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/1030837-rue-des-gravilliers-apartment/3. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/1056713-rue-du-pot-de-fer-apartment/4. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/1058798-rue-rollin-apartment/5. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/10710912-rue-saint-dominique-apartment/8,9th arr…Opera, la Butte de Montmartre: 1. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/1089828-place-henri-bergson-apartment/2. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/10810845-rue-daru-apartment/10,11th arr…Canal Saint Martin, Bastille: 1. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/1105524-boulevard-de-magenta-apartment/2. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/1109415-rue-du-faubourg-saint-denis-apartment/?sid=40493d98dc0499a4a5cfe307216658203. www.parisattitude.com/apartment.asp?numProduit=23234. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/1105524-boulevard-de-magenta-apartment/5. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/1108899-quai-de-valmy-apartment/6. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/11110397-rue-jean-pierre-timbaud-apartment/12th arr… 1. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/1122879-rue-de-charenton-apartment/13th arr… Chinatown: 1. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/11310817-rue-broca-apartment/14,15th arr…Montparnasse: 1. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/1140966-rue-remy-dumoncel-apartment/17th arr…Batignolles: 1. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/11710270-rue-puteaux-apartment/18th…Montmartre and surrounds… 1. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/1185783-rue-caulaincourt-apartment/?sid=40493d98dc0499a4a5cfe307216658202. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/1184961-rue-tholoze-apartment/3. www.vrbo.com/24320419,20th…Belleville, Menilmontent: 1. www.homelidays.co.uk/paris-20/apartment-flat-288455en1.htm2. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/1189739-rue-d-orchampt-apartment/3. sublet.lodgis.com/en/paris/description/1192338-rue-d-aubervilliers-apartment/Note: Most of these are from Lodgis, which seems to have a mixed reception from renters. |
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Post by lagatta on Jul 13, 2010 11:00:04 GMT
The first one in Belleville (Place des fêtes) does have WiKi and a nice balcony. I can't find what storey it is on, though (obviously I can ask). Not the type of building that would usually have a lift. Not that I need one - I live on the top floor of a triplex here - but don't really feel like climbing 6 flights of stairs every time I return. These tiny indignities of age are annoying, eh? (Stiff knee). Looking at the view from the balcony, it doesn't look very high up... Pretty, too.
Place des fêtes itself is very ugly - brutalist urban renewal, ugly tower blocks. But the market is large and cheap, with all sorts of merchandise.
The apt in the 20th (only 300€) also has an internet connection, but it is on the sixth, no lift. But it says "6 out of 6" which sounds more like the 5th storey.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2010 11:24:15 GMT
Stunning job, Jazz! Shame I don't need to look for a place to stay... |
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Post by bjd on Jul 13, 2010 14:27:04 GMT
Lagatta, that first one you mention is on the 3rd floor (out of 4), but that's 4th to N Americans. I see from a picture that the market is just underneath. It may be handy for shopping, but markets are set up very early, so it might be noisy in the mornings.
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Post by bjd on Jul 13, 2010 14:34:10 GMT
I'm looking at these for ideas of decorating small apartments. See the 2nd one in the Marais for how to make 17 sq m look reasonably sized! Jeez -1300€/mo for a 17sq m studio.
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Post by lola on Jul 13, 2010 15:04:30 GMT
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Post by bjd on Jul 13, 2010 15:44:04 GMT
Lola, it's just that if landlords rent out places on a weekly basis, they have to pay taxes as a business. Otherwise, as an individual, they are not supposed to have leases for less than a year on furnished places. It used to be 3 months, but that changed a few years ago. The minimum lease on an unfurnished place is 3 years.
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Post by lola on Jul 13, 2010 15:56:18 GMT
Thanks, bjd!
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Post by lagatta on Jul 14, 2010 0:14:16 GMT
bjd, thanks. I've lived in Europe a lot, moreover it is ambiguous in Québec, and even more ambiguous in English-speaking Canada than in the US. I was brought up with rez-de-chaussée - ground floor. I can handle that. The other one is a bit steep. Oh, exercise is good for arthritis, and I cycle for hours every day that I don't have too much work or tonnes of snow. But I don't want to be discouraged from going out and coming in again. I'm perfectly fine now, en passant.
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Post by Jazz on Jul 21, 2010 13:10:20 GMT
This recent article in the New York times is worth reading. travel.nytimes.com/2010/07/18/travel/18couch.html?th&emc=th…'Social B&B networks are a natural next step, imposing an important distinction: money. The new sites appeal to a traveler’s desire to see a city through local eyes (and from the vantage point of a resident’s home), but add a hedge against disaster: with Couchsurfing you get what’s given (it’s free, after all), while sites like AirBnB generally provide detailed descriptions of the private rooms or apartments available for rent, along with protections if things go wrong.'… …'In Paris, AirBnB has places in every arrondissement, including $13-a-night rooms in the western suburbs and $285-a-night houseboats on the Seine. As the first Web site of its kind to grab the headlines, the system has already developed a large and loyal user base. Some properties have as many as 70 user-generated reviews, which give paying guests a greater sense of confidence. It is similar to how eBay works: you’re more likely to buy from an eBay seller with good feedback.'… The author has rented several places and has good input. At the end is a list of a few sites, but I checked out the largest, AIRBNB which offers accommodation in close to 6,000 cities throughout the world…from a room in someone’s home to apartments and villas. www.airbnb.com/The Paris division alone offers 1,200 listings. www.airbnb.com/travel/paris/fr?city=Paris&country=FR&lat=48.8566667&lng=2.3509871&location=Paris+france&number_of_guests=1&precision=city&state=Ile-de-France&submit_location=Search This is the best site that I have yet seen for searching. You can refine your search easily and I like their treatment of each listing. Ie: I put in ‘entire place’, from 75-150USD/night (58-115Euro) and often the weekly and monthly are less expensive. The personal description of each listing varies, the photos are Large and above each photo you can easily link to maps and a google street view. **** Communication between you and the owner seems to be encouraged. Some are offered for short term only, others for all year round. I found some great possibilities. Bjd, I agree that looking through these sites gives excellent ideas for how to make a small space look more generous. Given that most of the apartments/studios in the BNB site are private homes and not just rentals, I was fascinated by looking at the individual decor of each one and how space is used in Paris as compared to Toronto. Another advantage of these listings is that they seem to offer much more square footage for the money than many other Paris sites. We are totally sympatico re: the flights of stairs, Lagatta. For me anything more than 3 flights (at most) tend to shape my day too much. My knee is not in good shape and I want to save my 'good energy' for walking around throughout the day. I also hate Murphy beds and those dreadful loft beds that you have to climb up a ladder to get to…dangerous after a few glasses of wine! |
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Post by lagatta on Jul 21, 2010 18:58:43 GMT
Jazz, I love this one: Villa De L'Ermitage, Paris, Ile-de-France 75020, France (I can't seem to copy the URL, but it is from 29 euros and rented by "June" - easy to find I think). I have a sculptor friend who used to live there - Villa de l'Ermitage is one of those little narrow lanes with many artists' studios, in the Belleville/Ménilmontant area - think it is more Ménilmontant. I have several friends nearby.
Only the deposit really bothers me if it is in addition to the fee.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2010 19:12:42 GMT
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Post by Jazz on Jul 21, 2010 22:01:50 GMT
It's beautiful Lagatta!!! ... the terrace! The URL's about 5 lines, but I think this must be it, ...'Located on the pedestrian VILLA DE L'ERMITAGE - visited for it's charm - 'la campagne à Paris', between Père Lachaise, Parc des Buttes Chaumont and Parc de Belleville. A short walk to Rue Oberkampf and a few stops on the metro to Republique, Le Marais, Hôtel de Ville, Châtelet. A quarter to be explored, music venues, parks and relaxed atmosphere. Fully furnished one bedroom on the ground floor - 40m2 with a sunny private terrace of 17m2, on one side and a quiet courtyard on the other. Terrace perfect for siesta beneath the vines of Menilmontant. Ideal for one person, couple or family. Seperate bedroom with double sofa/bed and a spacious salon with double bed. Metro: Jourdain or Gambetta. Bus - 26 - direct to Gare du Nord and Gare St Lazare. 96 - crosses Paris all the way to Gare Montparnasse. etc.' Thanks for the link Kerouac, I love that thread and didn't realize that this was the neighborhood.  |
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Post by lagatta on Jul 22, 2010 19:27:43 GMT
Yes, I just fell in love with it - everything but the €1000 deposit... Despite that, I am writing to June - I have friends in the neighbourhood who can vouch for me that I'm no destructive party animal - even my rather wild and punky younger friends have hit 40 now, so perhaps that can help. I don't think it had WiFi, but I guess if I have work to do it will just have to be the old-fashioned way, and I can go to a friend's house to send it to clients and to do any "incontournable" web searches.
Even the blurb is fairly accurate (though obviously Paris isn't always sunny), at least the destinations they mention are reasonably close-by. Of course you can get from anywhere to anywhere in Paris by public transport.
The 26 bus is very useful, as the northeastern arrondissements get broader as you go towards the edge of town - there is another bus a few streets above rue des Pyrénées that cuts an even broader swath, through some of the "villa" areas Kerouac has described. I have walked from a friend's house very close to Kerouac's (near métro Marx-Dormoy) to the friend's in the Villa de l'Ermitage, but it is a good walk. The view down into central Paris on the 96 bus is magnificent.
Once upon a time on the Lonely Planet Thorn Tree, ages ago, I started up a thread about a tour of artists' studios in that neighbourhood.
I see I made the same comments on kerouac's thread; I knew he had posted about the area (as I had too) but didn't remember which post.
I suppose I should do research about the history of the villa - the dwellings were very, very humble indeed, but I imagine that dwellings with an enclosed courtyard would indicate some kind of trade that required them - most humble working-class dwellings in that area didn't even have balconies.
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Not at all self indulgent. This is a very special year and you should be a part of the excitement. Do you really want to sit at home and read letters and postcards and look at endless photos online of the reality? Start researching tonight! 
