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Post by onlymark on Mar 30, 2010 11:30:13 GMT
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Post by onlymark on Mar 30, 2010 11:43:22 GMT
As this is a popular street there are bits of paper stuck around on various trees advertising stuff. What is popular are those for accommodation. Note the prices. They are in US dollars usually and are per month These are western prices due to the prevalence of foreigners here. Obviously if they were appealing to the locals, the signs would be in Arabic. These prices are quite ridiculous and reflect the gullibility and naivety of a lot of foreigners who are often not bothered about the prices because their company pays. Originally when I came to Cairo a lot of people spoke of living in Maadi and how it was the 'place to be'. That put me off it straight away and we live elsewhere. Local prices are a hell of a lot less for a semi decent place and there are other places that have all the supposed advantages associated with this suburb. I pay per month for a three bed house with garden, living area is about 250 square metres on two floors, the plot is about 400 sq.m. - about 1000 Euro. Put these coordinates into Google Maps/Google Earth and you'll see where Road 9 is - 29° 57.412'N 31° 15.640'E
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 30, 2010 16:45:37 GMT
Mark, I enjoyed this so much. It's really an eye-opener, too. In so many of the photos, if it weren't for a sign or how a person is dressed, I would not have guessed it was Egypt, due to my lack of knowledge.
Ha ha on "the place to be". There's an area here, San Felipe, that's similar. It was a small village known for its tortilla makers. Now it's a suburb of Oaxaca and the large number of large houses has eclipsed its village-ness. It features equally shocking rents.
There are so many signs in English. Can you tell me what all the writing says on the "pharmacie"?
This was a real treat -- thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2010 16:53:48 GMT
I had to wait until I got home to comment, because I can't see the photos at the office. I understand the aversion to expat ghettos, but it does look like a delightful neighborhood and some of the houses and apartments have great appeal (even though I know about the dust, the noise, etc... of Cairo).
Those rents are outrageous -- you can live in style in Paris for less than that, but it's true that when the company is paying, who cares?
I hope you have more of these reports up your sleeve, Mark.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2010 17:30:54 GMT
Really enjoyed all these photos on here, Mark. Thanks for taking the time to put them up.
It is an eye opener for sure. I can't believe anyone would be willing to pay 2,000 plus for accommodation over there. That is so expensive. But I guess if the company is paying, they don't bother about the price do they? I thought living in Cairo would be cheaper then in down town Toronto? It's surprising. Maybe it's the exoticness of it all that blinds foreigners in to thinking that those prices are reasonable? And to think I pay absolutely nothing for where I live, I think I have a good deal.
I'm just wondering about that fruit and vegetable stall, are all the produce okay to eat? Or do you have to pick and choose? I ask because of what I've heard about the pollution levels in the soil, and not to mention the watering system over there.
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Post by auntieannie on Mar 30, 2010 18:49:25 GMT
I love it! some of the pics of private houses reminded me of my friends' house in a leafy area of Bangalore, India. Must be the bits of old furniture in the garden. Thanks, Mark!
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Post by onlymark on Mar 30, 2010 18:55:54 GMT
I'm a bit busy for now, I'll come back shortly and answer.
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Post by onlymark on Mar 30, 2010 20:08:39 GMT
There are so many signs in English. Can you tell me what all the writing says on the "pharmacie"? The Arabic, no, I don't read it. The other - Wagih Mishriki - means, errrr.... I haven't got a clue. Maybe a name, though it doesn't sound like one.
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Post by onlymark on Mar 30, 2010 20:22:57 GMT
Kerouac, it does look like a nice neighbourhood, and down the back streets is better, but you are right in that a photo doesn't convey the dust and the noise - or the smell. Or the amount of mosquitos because through that area is a stagnant canal. Where I am there is very little, if none, standing water, so no mossies really. All year round, even in the winter, that area has them. It makes it a pain to sit out in the evening as I have done at various houses there when I've been invited. As for the rents, there are apartments that are perfectly good for a lot less, around where I am but also in Maadi. For example - This one is 550 usd a month. www.expatriates.com/cls/8947725.htmlOr 650usd a month - www.expatriates.com/cls/8964169.htmlAnd even in Maadi - 420usd - www.expatriates.com/cls/8908624.htmlAnd they are advertised on an expat website, so what do you think the real value should be for a local? (rheotorical question)
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Post by onlymark on Mar 30, 2010 20:28:54 GMT
I'm just wondering about that fruit and vegetable stall, are all the produce okay to eat? Or do you have to pick and choose? I ask because of what I've heard about the pollution levels in the soil, and not to mention the watering system over there. Is the produce Ok to eat? Good question. It certainly would and does fail the test of if it could be exported to Europe due to how it's grown. The only answer is to buy imported fruit and veg, which is quite expensive, way beyond the budget of the normal Egyptian and frequently not worth it for us either. The truthful answer is, I don't really know. I do soak and peel whatever I can but eventually you eat it, otherwise you'd never have any at all. I do though try and avoid anything with a very high water content like water melon.
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Post by onlymark on Mar 30, 2010 20:38:21 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2010 21:11:23 GMT
Watch out, you're going to start igniting fantasies among certain people.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2010 0:26:30 GMT
I really enjoyed this Mark. Parts of the walk,some of the houses curiously reminded me of here in New Orleans and others,Merida in the Yucatan of Mexico. What is the story if you know of the pic(s) of the property with all the cool antique salvage building materials(doors,shutters)? Were they for sale or just part of some ongoing renovation project? (I have a thing for this stuff ) Anyway,very interesting. Thanks.
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Post by onlymark on Mar 31, 2010 6:53:08 GMT
The stuff was for sale. It's salvaged from old houses.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2010 9:48:22 GMT
The stuff was for sale. It's salvaged from old houses. That's what I was afraid you'd say... I'll be on the next plane... (Would you check out the prices for me,maybe do a little haggling for me in advance? )
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2010 9:58:39 GMT
They're tearing down the old houses constantly. They'll only start appreciating them when there are only a dozen or so left. Apartment buildings bring in a lot more money -- and there is always a need for more housing.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2010 10:05:26 GMT
The same thing is happening here. The stuff in OM's pic looks more exotic though...
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Post by onlymark on Mar 31, 2010 10:26:04 GMT
casimira, if it's an old bloke who owns the stuff, which I think it is, you'd be far better at haggling than me. A smile, a wink, a pretty face always works wonders here. Maybe a few tears as well when the price is too high.
K2, there is the conundrum. There are literally thousands of empty flats and houses, and new ones being built all the time. But no-one is moving into them. Why? I'm not sure. Many are too expensive, many are in the wrong place for those who want to be near the town centre, but a very big reason, so I'm told, is a Catch 22 situation. Poeple will not move to these new places until there are more people there, especially other friends and family. Yet the others will not move because the others wont move for the same reason, if you see what I mean. It takes someone to be the first, and to stay there until the others move in. Nobody wants to be the first and have to live there 'by themselves' until everyone else is there.
Most talk about wanting the peace and quiet and an un-hectic area, yet they want all their support structure of people around them, plus shops, cafes, malls etc and roads and transport. And none will move until that is in place, yet when it is, it becomes similar to where they were and full of noise and bustle.
No statistics accurately reflect the amount of people in Cairo, talk is of 15 million but that doesn't account for a number of areas immediately outside the city conurbation and even some within, and it's difficult to undertake an accurate census when estimates of over 2 million live purely in the city cemeteries. I haven't accurate figures, because there aren't any.
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Post by bjd on Mar 31, 2010 12:08:51 GMT
Is it considered low class to sit outside? That last villa you posted -- 420 sq m and a tiny garden without even a bush in it.
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Post by onlymark on Mar 31, 2010 12:36:19 GMT
Several points there - not low class , no, far from it. But some seasons mean it is either too hot or too cold. Tie that in with the fact that if we had a plot of 800 sq m we'd build a house of 300 sq m and have a garden on the rest. Not here. You build as big as you can as a sign of status on the land you've got but you often have a small garden just so you can say you've got one as well. Not big on gardening here or sitting out IN the garden. Fine enough on the patio or balcony, but that's about it.
In adverts they often state 'Reception rooms'. Again this is a sign of status that you may have two or three to entertain friends and family. There is no, as we think traditional, living room, kitchen etc. It's reception rooms and more reception rooms. Oh, and guest toilets. Kitchens are for the staff, there might be a small 'den type room' where when you are alone you watch the TV or something, but generally these places are advertised as having the reception rooms, an office room is also a selling point, but rarely the garden.
One other selling point is the 'standard' that they are built to - Delux, Super Delux and so on. I've never really understood it but it is something to do with the standard of the fixtures and fittings. Plus generally everywhere is rented out furnished. It has been known to be more expensive if you want it unfurnished. Funny huh!
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Post by onlymark on Mar 31, 2010 12:41:22 GMT
Just re-reading that advert I see they say, "There are one sitting room, two living rooms, and a dinner room." So you've got a dinner room and three other rooms, reception rooms termed normally, for entertaining. I'd have the reception ones as bedrooms, or something else, don't know, but one living room is enough for me. I'll see if I can find pictures of the other house I used to live in here. It was rather big.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2010 17:10:59 GMT
When I had to work in Casablanca for a few weeks, my colleague (of modest means) invited me and was so proud to show that he had a "Moroccan living room" and a "European living room" -- such things are incredibly important for these cultures, especially when the sexes do not mix. The women gather in one room and the men gather in another one.
Somebody should probably start a thread about the differences -- and the similarities -- of various cultures and the reasons why some things are universal and others are not.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 31, 2010 18:11:09 GMT
Because of the trees and plants, and the style of the houses in the first few pictures, I was also very much reminded of parts of New Orleans. There are literally thousands of empty flats and houses, and new ones being built all the time. But no-one is moving into them. Why? I'm not sure. Many are too expensive, many are in the wrong place for those who want to be near the town centre, but a very big reason, so I'm told, is a Catch 22 situation. Poeple will not move to these new places until there are more people there, especially other friends and family. Yet the others will not move because the others wont move for the same reason, if you see what I mean. It takes someone to be the first, and to stay there until the others move in. Nobody wants to be the first and have to live there 'by themselves' until everyone else is there. So interesting, Mark, particularly since I'd just posted about this ghost city, and was mulling about the emptiness there and in a purpose-built Italian town mentioned in that same thread. After reading what you wrote, I strongly suspect those places are left empty for the same reasons you name. You build as big as you can as a sign of status on the land you've got but you often have a small garden just so you can say you've got one as well. Not big on gardening here or sitting out IN the garden. Fine enough on the patio or balcony, but that's about it. That is so much like here, and something I just don't get. People build from lot line to lot line, with many of the rooms remaining unfinished for years. There is no place for the kids to play and often a lovely bay window in the living room faces directly onto the one-car parking pad. What's really odd about it is that outdoor space, where available, is so often used as a room of the house -- a dining room, for instance.
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Post by onlymark on Mar 31, 2010 19:10:12 GMT
This was the first house we rented when we first got here - The pool out the back with the son and daughter of a friend - Part of the garden which was bigger than most houses here, probably because of the pool - View of the front door from inside the house. The floor was completely open plan - With a TV room area - Another part of that floor - The basement led out onto the pool and we used it not only as a bedroom but a games room as well - Reflection of the garden wall from a back window - Stairway - Window over front door - The house had a living area of about 650 sq m. The garden was a couple of hundred.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2010 19:26:12 GMT
Watch out, Mark, you are going to make jaws hit the floor. Some of our group does not know about Egyptian space and houses.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2010 20:04:08 GMT
Oh my gosh, what a lovely, lovely house. So roomy and looks so well designed. All that wonderful hardwood flooring. The only fault I can find with it is the high walls around the garden, they seem to make the area outside look a little claustrophobic. Is that the usual way these places are built over there, Mark?
If you don't mind me asking, how much was the rent for this particular place? And why did you move from it? I bet your kids must have just loved that pool, especially considering the extreme hot weather that you get over there.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2010 20:04:50 GMT
*picks up jaws off the floor*
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Post by onlymark on Mar 31, 2010 21:09:46 GMT
Deyana, if you imagine a house with two levels at the front but a third below at the rear. The garden is at the bottom of the third level. the 'basement'. It's not so usual. It did give the problem of the garden walls being very high but this gave, on the good side, privacy, at the expense though of feeling closed in. The street level is halfway up the garden walls. The pool was in a place that was underneath the overhanging top floor which was a bedroom. That is supported by the pillars you can see in the garden. This was fine because it gave shade to the garden, but not fine because it meant the pool was always in shadow and never warmed up. The hottest it ever got was 26 degrees - which may be Ok for some, but not for me. The rent was 2500usd per month. The agreement was that it would be re-negotiated after one year with a 5-10% rise. When this time came the owner wanted to increase it by nearly 50%. I knew we could negotiate him down, but that wasn't the point of irritation with me. The point was that he thought we were stupid enough for him to try it on. So immediately he said it I went out to find a new place. Over the next few weeks until the contract expired I led him on, negotiating down and down until it got to a point where the rent actually stayed the same, but it was too late by then. I'd found where I live now. Not so grand at all and a lot cheaper. The day before the removal truck came - I told him that we were moving and exactly why. He wasn't happy, but so what. One point though was that the house was far too big and needed a full time maid and other staff we didn't have to keep in in good shape. we had the maid, an Ethiopian woman called Titi, but I still did all the cooking, gardening and repairs etc (though we had a pool man who came twice a week) - One last photo of a bunch of kids playing in the open plan room. The front door is to the right behind the lad on the end of the rope. What you can see to the far left, the silver coloured thing, is the 'dumb waiter' - the food elevator as the kitchen was below this floor in the basement at the side of the games room and also overlooking the pool, the stairway is to the left -
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Post by onlymark on Mar 31, 2010 21:23:23 GMT
K2, what they never mention though is that there's no heating and when it's windy sand comes in and covers everything, plus the windows tend to fall out.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2010 21:30:21 GMT
Well, that's part of Egypt! What were they thinking? (I stayed in a spectacularly decrepit apartment in Alexandria for a week -- my god, if only those places were renovated properly!)
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