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Post by Kimby on Dec 27, 2011 18:18:35 GMT
I have been trying for years to make roast beef come out tender and juicy, but I always end up with chewy beef.
It doesn't seem to matter whether I buy cheap or expensive cuts, whether I roast long and slow or hot and quick, whether I cook to rare or well done, whether I cover it or not, or cook it on a rack over water. I do everything they say I should, even letting it sit before carving to let the juices redistribute throughout the roast and I just don't seem to have the knack for making a beef roast.
This past Christmas I took a 2 1/2 pound USDA Choice rump roast, marinated it in a mixture of mushroom soup and Lipton Onion Soup Mix overnight, wrapped it in heavy duty foil and roasted it at 350 till it hit 160 internally, then let it sit in the cooling oven while I mashed the potatoes. Though the gravy was good, the meat was dry and tough, as usual.
Does anyone have any suggestions for me and others who might be challenged by roasting beef?
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Post by tod2 on Dec 27, 2011 18:33:32 GMT
Kimby love, The very first thing that has to be delt with is the AGE of the beef. By this I mean at least 32 days old. Secondly, the fat distribution in the muscle fibre.....Oh Oh, sound all technical but you cannot go wrong with a very aged PRIME RIB roast. This can be roasted on a high heat with minimum time, giving you that rare inside. Or, long and slow which will be tasty but fall apart mushy style. I would never buy an Aitchbone, or topside roast. Complete waste of time and dry sawdust in the end- even rare roasted it hasn't enough fat. Having said that, I did eat a delectable roast beef in Wales which had been roasted for 12 hours. Yes! that long! It fell apart and because it was cut ACROSS THE GRAIN had no long stringy muscle fibres to deal with. The hotelier said he put the roast beef in at around midnight on a very low oven and took it out for Sunday roast at 12noon the next day.....I call that ripening the meat ;D I have NO idea what cut, but I reckon it was a real cheapo. Do you remember my Thin Flank roast I barbecued? Bavette in French.... divine, divine, divine!
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Post by bixaorellana on Dec 27, 2011 18:35:31 GMT
I know this isn't a modest thing to say, but my family says I make the best roast beef of all -- and that's coming from a family of great cooks.
My secret isn't much of a secret, since I got my tried & true recipe from a New York Times cookbook.
Kimby, I haven't made it in years, but I think I can remember how. I will do a search for the recipe, though.
Anyway, the trick is to season it (oil the outside, then s&p, paprika -- pierce it & stick in cloves of garlic if you like). Then put it, uncovered, into a 500° oven. Yes, that hot. Let it cook for 20 minutes, then lower the heat to 325° and begin timing it -- 17 minutes a pound for rare, obviously a little more per minute for more doneness.
At the end of the cooking time, remove it from the oven & let it set for 10 -- 15 minutes before slicing.
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Post by bixaorellana on Dec 27, 2011 18:41:29 GMT
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Post by Kimby on Dec 27, 2011 18:53:18 GMT
I wait with bated breath for bixa's family recipe.
Meanwhile, I will tender up the leftover hunk in the pressure cooker for a second meal in a couple days (when our jaws are no longer sore from chewing!)
BTW, ONE time I did find a tender cut of meat - called a Delmonico roast. Haven't been able to find it since. And where does one find "aged" meat? Or do you have to age it yourself?
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Post by bixaorellana on Dec 27, 2011 18:59:59 GMT
Kimby, if I can't find the published recipe, just use the directions in #2. I've given them out verbally untold times & everyone reports back that their roasts came out great.
I don't know how big your leftover hunk (sounds like an old boyfriend) is, but you could do what my grandmother used to do with the remains of roast beef or pot roast. That is, just turn it into salad a la chicken salad except of course with beef. I do this often with leftover meat. She'd put it through a grinder, but it's a snap in a food processor.
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Post by Kimby on Dec 27, 2011 19:08:25 GMT
the trick is to season it (oil the outside, then s&p, paprika -- pierce it & stick in cloves of garlic if you like). Then put it, uncovered, into a 500° oven. Yes, that hot. Let it cook for 20 minutes, then lower the heat to 325° and begin timing it -- 17 minutes for rare, obviously a little more per minute for more doneness. Do you mean 17 minutes per pound or 17 minutes total?
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Post by imec on Dec 27, 2011 19:09:16 GMT
Kimby, a rump roast will not come out tender or juicy by roasting - it needs to be braised. For roasting you need a cut from the loin or the rib. The best is standing rib, but other cuts worth roasting incllude Sirloin (NOT sirloin tip), strip loin (usually cut into steaks but good as a roast too) and tenderloin.
As for method, I will never again use any other method than the one I used to do our Xmas day roast. It was the very best roast beef I have ever served. The method was recently published in Cooks Illustrated - they cooked about $1500 worth of roast beef in the test kitchen until they got it right. It seems counter-intuitive for roasting in that the heat is very low - 200 degrees - and even involves a period of cooking with the oven turned off. I posted a pic of the roast in Christmas around the world. Let me know if you're interested.
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Post by bixaorellana on Dec 27, 2011 19:22:24 GMT
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Post by Kimby on Dec 27, 2011 19:41:21 GMT
Kimby, a rump roast will not come out tender or juicy by roasting - it needs to be braised. Can you explain "braising" please? Absolutely, with step by step instructions, please!
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Post by fumobici on Dec 27, 2011 19:52:56 GMT
I know this isn't a modest thing to say, but my family says I make the best roast beef of all -- and that's coming from a family of great cooks. My secret isn't much of a secret, since I got my tried & true recipe from a New York Times cookbook. Kimby, I haven't made it in years, but I think I can remember how. I will do a search for the recipe, though. Anyway, the trick is to season it (oil the outside, then s&p, paprika -- pierce it & stick in cloves of garlic if you like). Then put it, uncovered, into a 500° oven. Yes, that hot. Let it cook for 20 minutes, then lower the heat to 325° and begin timing it -- 17 minutes for rare, obviously a little more per minute for more doneness. At the end of the cooking time, remove it from the oven & let it set for 10 -- 15 minutes before slicing. ^^^ This is the answer, though it won't make a silk purse from a sow's ear obviously. Sear at 500F+, then cook at ~325F. Honestly you can skip the rest if you prefer. The other way is to go low (sub 200F) and slow as imec says after the sear although most ovens aren't really built for this and an Alto-Shaam capable of that degree of low temperature control probably runs 5000 USD. This will take hours as well. Up to eight or nine. Most home ovens probably aren't up for the low and slow, but the 500F > 325F works great. Use a temperature probe set to 140-145F deep in the cut to reliably get a nice "a point"or classic American medium rare.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2011 20:20:10 GMT
My secret for the perfect roast is to make leg of lamb. For some reason, I can always make it perfectly, so I don't even try roast beef anymore.
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Post by bixaorellana on Dec 27, 2011 20:44:42 GMT
Thanks, Fumobici.
I can state from repeated experience that roasting can & will turn a rump roast/bottom round into a lovely piece of meat. It may not be as super tender as some other cuts, but just make thin slices. It's fabulous chilled, then cut paper-thin on a slicer to make deli style sandwiches.
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Post by tod2 on Dec 28, 2011 5:50:15 GMT
Kimby, you asked 'How does one find aged meat or do you have to age it yourself'? Here, we have no problem finding meat that has been left at a certain cold temperature to age then vacuum packed for the supermarket shelf. But, these are mainly steaks. If I wanted a rib roast ready to roast I would have to go to one of our steak houses where they have a butcher facility but it would cost me mega bucks. I have asked a Butcher shop to age a hunk of beef for me but it's a schlep remembering to go back and get it! Nowadays, I buy the rib roast and leave it in my refrigerator (open to the air covering it with a dry cloth) for 10 days or so. Another good way to buy tender beef is to buy 'Baby Beef' or make sure the meat has a 'Super' or 'Prime' stamp on the outside. Let us know how the next one turns out
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Post by imec on Dec 28, 2011 17:15:30 GMT
Start with a 7 pound standing rib roast (3-4 ribs) with the fat cap intact - . the fat cap on my roast was largely removed (which results in an unfortunate lack of drippings) Cut the ribs from the roast in one piece. Score the fat cap, cutting down to but not into the meat. Rub a couple of tablespoons of coarse salt into the entire roast. Lay the roast onto the ribs on a large plate and refrigerate uncovered for 1 - 4 days. Sear the roast in a couple tablespoons of oil in a very hot skillet - DO NOT sear the side where the ribs were cut from. Lay the roast back onto the ribs and tie with string between the ribs. Place the roast on rack in a shallow roasting pan. Place in the middle of a 200 degree oven and roast until the temperature of the meat reaches 110. NOTE: I recommend using an accurate thermometer to be sure your oven is 200 - mine wasn't and I had to set it to about 250. Turn off the oven and leave until temperature reaches 120 for rare, 125 for medium rare (30-70 minutes longer). Remove roast from oven, leave on the roasting rack, lightly tent with foil and let rest for 30 to 60 minutes. Remove foil and run roast under a hot broiler for a few minutes. Cut the strings, remove from ribs and slice in 3/4 inch thick slices.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Dec 28, 2011 17:52:30 GMT
It took me years to learn how to cook beef...like you Kimby, no matter what I tried i always ended with an inedible lump of chewy meat...it was soooo frustrating. All of a sudden...I could cook it. I don't think that I did anything differently! maybe I was just blessed by the good-beef-fairy ;D I do something similar to Bixa I spose...only I never season before cooking. I tend to go for beef that has been left to age for about 3 weeks as I find this gives consistantly good results. I wrap my joint of beef in foil and cook it in a large lidded roasting pan. I use the highest setting for 20-30 minutes then turn it down low for the rest of the cooking time. Because I'm English working class (and therefore a philistine by default) we like our meat cooked through and don't go for the pink centre that more sophisticated people like. Take a peek every so often, I cook mine for ages...but when you're happy that it's done take it out and leave to rest still wrapped and in the roasting tin so that it retains the heat..I find that it will stay hot for well over half an hour kept this way. I often take some of the meat juices to add to the fat that I use to cook the yorkshire pudding and roast potatoes.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Dec 28, 2011 17:55:23 GMT
I would add that the 'resting' of the meat after cooking really helps.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2011 18:11:38 GMT
That is a fantastic "how to" photo report, imec! I too very much regret too much fat being cut off so many items. Even my Chinese butcher (actually an African butcher working at the Chinese supermarket) seems to be sort of greedily disappointed when I demand to keep all of my fat rather than have it trimmed. I know that none of the fat goes to waste.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Dec 28, 2011 18:21:41 GMT
The fat is what gives the meat it's flavour isn't it? I always look for marbling in the grain...the colour of the fat is a good indicator of the freshness of the meat too.
I keep the dripping from the roasting tin, use the fat for cooking veg etc and the jelly for soups and stews.
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Post by fumobici on Dec 28, 2011 21:14:47 GMT
That roast looks perfect imec. Dead on.
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Post by tod2 on Dec 29, 2011 13:53:01 GMT
Great 'How To' photos Imec and that looked a great piece of beef - Why do you score the fat? I would think leaving it in a whole layer would protect the meat more? I agree with you and Kerouac that the more fat the better!
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Post by Kimby on Dec 29, 2011 18:33:38 GMT
Thanks everyone for all the suggestions. I KNOW it's possible to get a good tasty tender roast with a rump roast, as my mother-in-law has done it for years and never buys any other kind of roast. Her secret, since she was a working mother, was to freeze the roast, then take it out and put it in the oven before she went to work, setting the timer to turn on the oven sometime after lunch so that the roast would be ready when she came home from work. Maybe freezing the roast tenderized it by busting up the cells? Maybe the frozen center and longer cooking time had something to do with it? Or maybe roasts were just better in the olden days?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2011 20:37:45 GMT
I already forgot what, but I read yet another horror story about something that growth hormones do to meat the other day. Oh, maybe it was the bit about causing man boobs.
I am extremely grateful that the growth hormones are forbidden in the EU.
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