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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 5, 2010 19:33:51 GMT
Well, yeah -- there are zillions of kinds of sauces. However, this is the Tomato Bases & Sauces thread.
That recipe is a revelation, Don Cuevas. I would have thought that the tomato paste straight from the can would make it too acid, but there is not much of it in proportion to the rest of the ingredients. It sounds more like an ingredient of the pizza and livelier than the usual way of smearing red stuff on a pizza.
I'm learning a lot about "alternate" spices for tomato sauce! Still marveling from the wonderful idea of using ginger, I come across cardamom. Wow. Yes!
What sounds so good about both Don Cuevas's pizza sauce and Cristina's sauce is that they'd both really feature the fresher tomato taste more than the traditional long-simmered sauce.
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 5, 2010 19:38:13 GMT
I alluded to cooking tomato paste above. My grandmother made a sublime traditional sauce, the benchmark for everyone in my family. Her secret was to cook the paste before adding the rest of the ingredients. Cook down the onions and garlic in the olive oil, as usual, then add the paste, cooking and stirring until it becomes fluffy and orange, rather than red. Now add the other tomato products and proceed as usual with your recipe. I predict this will become standard practice for anyone who tries it.
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Post by cristina on Feb 6, 2010 0:48:58 GMT
Still not getting the multi-quote thing....but give me time. As for K2's questions about using other vegetables for a sauce, I was suddenly reminded that tomatoes are a fruit - not a vegetable - so applesauce came immediately to mind. Plum sauce too. But no vegetable sauces unless they were late additions to a another sauce, such as béchamel. I'll probably think of more sauces at 2 am. And Bixa (or anyone else), if you have other ideas for uses of cardamom I would be very grateful. I really have limited experience with the spice, but love it. (I do use it with eggplant/aubergines, too.)
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 6, 2010 3:20:08 GMT
I realize that cardamom is thought of as one of the east Indian spices, but don't the Scandinavians make great use of it as well?
Your mention of using it on eggplant brought to mind eggplant parmagian. My family doesn't make the stodgy lasagna-ish version that seems to be such a feature in restaurants. It's thin slices of eggplant lightly fried in olive oil to soften them, laid out individually on a baking sheet, dressed with a mellow, traditional tomato sauce, then sprinkled with romano cheese and baked until the top starts to brown. These are served at room temperature. I'd think that your tomato sauce with cardamom would be delightful on the eggplant, with perhaps a little ricotta on top rather than the more pungent, salty romano.
Besciamella is sometimes flavored with nutmeg. I wonder how the eggplant dish would be with the cardomom-kissed tomato sauce and nutmeg-dusted besciamella on top instead of a cheese.
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Post by cristina on Feb 6, 2010 16:16:40 GMT
Besciamella is sometimes flavored with nutmeg. I wonder how the eggplant dish would be with the cardomom-kissed tomato sauce and nutmeg-dusted besciamella on top instead of a cheese. Bixa, I often make moussaka with this tomato sauce and a layer of bechamel (with nutmeg) on top. The two sauces combine rather well, IMHO.
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 6, 2010 17:32:28 GMT
I believe you have the right to say, "IMIO".* * In My Informed OpinonI often read recipes that make me question whether the writer has really tested them or not. An example are the ones -- frequently called "primavera" -- that call for raw tomatoes that are heated but not really cooked. Sometimes that can work, but frequently the tomatoes get cooked just enough to make them icky -- softish on the outside, with the skin starting to separate, and sort of similar to an over-ripe tomato. Anybody know any tricks to achieve the right balance in this sort of thing?
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Post by cristina on Feb 6, 2010 20:56:00 GMT
Bixa, when I make anything resembling primavera sauce, I don't cook the tomatoes at all. Maybe because its a cold dish to me. Sometimes I blanch other vegetables, like asparagus, but the tomatoes I leave raw. Actually, I don't think I have every really thought of primavera as a "sauce." But I guess it is.
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 23, 2010 15:18:41 GMT
BASIC TOMATO SAUCE for Pasta (Bixaorellana)
1 small can of tomato paste 1 large can (24 - 32 oz) of canned tomatoes in pieces ~ OR ~ a couple of pounds of fresh tomatoes. (see below) 1 medium onion, chopped fine 3 cloves of garlic, minced salt basil, either dried or fresh
Pour @3 tablespoons of olive oil into a deep heavy pot & put the heat on medium. Saute the onions until they are well wilted, then add the garlic, cooking & stirring until it is translucent.
Pour in the contents of the tomato puree can, and quickly stir it about. Lower the heat & continue cooking the puree until it is fluffy and orange in color -- not red.
Now put in the can of tomatoes. (Cut them into small pieces if they don't already come that way.
Bring the pot to a boil, then lower the heat as far down as it will go. Add a little salt, stir, & leave to simmer for at least 45 minutes, stirring from time to time.
After 45 minutes, check the color & texture of the sauce. It should be orangey and pretty homogenized. Taste it. If it's too acid for your taste, add just a tiny bit of sugar -- a half teaspoon, maybe, stir & taste again. You may want to give it another 5 or 10 minutes cooking time at least.
Towards the very end of the cooking time, put in the basil -- a scant teaspoon of dried, or one or two tablespoonfuls of fresh, chopped. --------------
OPTIONS: To the above recipe, you could add chopped celery & a very small amount of chopped bell pepper, to be put in at the same time you put in the onion to cook. You could also add some chopped mushrooms. -------------- to make the basic sauce with FRESH TOMATOES:
Set aside two of the ripest ones & whirl them in a blender until they are very well liquidized & all the skin & seeds are invisible. This will be the puree you use to begin cooking the sauce.
Plunge the rest of them into a large pot of boiling water, just long enough to see the skin split on at least one of them. Drain them into a colander, then peel them. Cut each tomato in half & scoop out & discard the seeds <-- optional step, then chop the tomato fairly finely. Use these chopped tomatoes instead of the big can of tomatoes called for in the above recipe.
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Post by mickthecactus on Apr 20, 2018 17:48:34 GMT
Do we have a good recipe? I couldn’t find one and I am less than impressed with shop bought sauce.
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Post by kerouac2 on Apr 21, 2018 10:34:14 GMT
I have always despised the sauces from shops and will only break down and try one if they are practically giving them away -- not a single one has ever suited me.
I don't really have a recipe, but I make a meat sauce which can be variable due to changing proportions. Basically I start by cooking some ground beef until all of the pink is gone, which is the signal to drain away the juice (mostly fat). Then I continue cooking it with chopped onions. Next usually comes a tin of tomato pulp or cubes or even whole tinned tomatoes -- it depends on what I discover in my cupboard. I do not recommend using fresh tomatoes. I also chop up at least half of a green bell pepper and stalk of celery, as well as some chopped parsley or cilantro, a couple of bay leaves and some powdered thyme. After letting it simmer for at least half an hour, I generally determine that it is still a bit too soupy and I add a tin of tomato paste.
I have not mentioned salt, pepper or other spices, but you know what inspires you. If I'm cooking for just myself, some Cayenne pepper can find its way into the sauce, or else a little bit or chili or curry powder. Must be more neutral when there are guests!
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Post by mickthecactus on Apr 21, 2018 11:06:19 GMT
I do a meat sauce along those lines but I also add finely diced carrot. Wine and a meat stock cube. Oh, and Worcester sauce.
But what I need is a sauce to go with meatballs and pasta say.
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Post by onlyMark on Apr 21, 2018 11:44:40 GMT
Mine is quite basic and I tend to make a large amount of a base type sauce which I then freeze in lots then adjust it depending on what it is with. I fry in olive oil a red and a white onion until it is just going brown, add quartered fresh tomatoes and fry them up until they go soft. Add some garlic for a minute or two, add some tins of diced and/or whole tomatoes, salt and paper, a bit of soy sauce, and then chilli flakes to taste. I add some dried parsley and sometimes a bit of dried basil and thyme, but not always. Let that simmer away for ten minutes or so then blitz it all with a stick blender. Add water if necessary and more salt/pepper/herb things to taste. I don't bother with a veg stock cube or anything. Mainly because Mrs M seems to detect some form of spice/herb/ingredient in them that for years she's not been able to identify, but doesn't like. Then I let it bubble away for anything up to an hour and taste it again periodically.
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Post by mickthecactus on Apr 21, 2018 13:08:28 GMT
What sort of paper? I suppose if you were short of time it would be the Express.
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Post by onlyMark on Apr 21, 2018 13:24:54 GMT
Sunday Sport. I've got some old copies.
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Post by mickthecactus on Apr 21, 2018 13:55:47 GMT
It would certainly spice it up.
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Post by bjd on Apr 21, 2018 15:01:47 GMT
My basic sauce is rather like Kerouac's except I start by frying onions, red bell peppers and some garlic, then add the ground meat and cook until it's done. Add canned tomatoes (usually the cut up ones), salt, pepper, oregano and basil. Occasionally throw in a carrot if I need more stuff. Absolutely no celery. Add some tabasco if I want it spicier.
If I am making just tomato sauce, then I start with onions, garlic, add the canned tomatoes, a bit of tomato concentrate, a bit of sugar, basil, salt and pepper. Blend it before serving.
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Post by kerouac2 on Apr 21, 2018 15:02:52 GMT
Looks like our lady members get all of their inferior sauce out of jars, or else they are sworn to secrecy.
*runs for cover*
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Post by kerouac2 on Apr 21, 2018 15:03:29 GMT
Ah, cross posting -- one has awakened!
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Post by kerouac2 on Apr 21, 2018 15:08:34 GMT
This is an interesting cultural divide. I am not necessarily against the idea of adding a carrot, but in my own upbringing, carrots have never entered the picture for pasta sauce. I feel a sudden urge to investigate French pasta sauce recipes to see if there is any mention of carrots.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 21, 2018 16:21:27 GMT
I have never heard of using carrot either.
I don't know what kind of flavor it could add. I'm assuming sweetness. Something I dislike, no matter the ingredient.
Some red sauces served here have too much of a sweetness about them.
(I learned many years ago of adding a pinch of cinnamon and it does meld in quite well with the other herbs and spices).
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Post by fumobici on Apr 21, 2018 17:34:44 GMT
Jarred sauce is frowned upon here in Tuscany--most people in this small town have a garden, grow their own tomatoes and make their own sauces from them to last the year--but there seems to be a consensus that if jarred sauce must be used a brand from Napoli called "Mutti" is the best. I haven't seen it at all in the US, but maybe it can be bought elsewhere in Europe.
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Post by kerouac2 on Apr 21, 2018 18:38:45 GMT
Mutti is of course totally available in France (although I think I bought their tins of tomatoes in Luxembourg): www.mutti-parma.com/fr/#!/nos-champs-de-tomates-votre-cuisine Unfortunately (?) albeit not really if the quality is there, there are also numerous articles saying that the tomatoes they use are often imported from China, California or Spain.
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Post by mickthecactus on Apr 21, 2018 20:23:19 GMT
Yes, sweetness Casi but only because it balances the tomato acidity. It does work, honest!
And with meat sauce aren’t we talking ragu?
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Post by lagatta on Apr 21, 2018 21:56:09 GMT
Mutti is certainly readily available here in Montréal. They make a very good finely chopped tomato mixture. Casimira, I hate sugar in sauces but some sauces do well with a bit of onion, which is also sweet. Mine is fairly simple, in most cases it involves tinned tomatoes in winter, fresh ones in late summer and early autumn if we'll have any decent ones after this horrible winter. I do like a shot of white wine, more than red. We haven't mentioned herbs, because that is so individual. Fresh ones such as basil, or dried ones such as sage, oregano or rosemary. I hate to give directives because taste is so personal. And certainly virgin olive oil, though I most often use a Greek kind one finds in large (3l) jugs here, which I decant into glass bottles. I usually add fish sauce instead of salt (umami).
Definitely consult the A Kitchen in Rome blog by Rachel Roddy, on her own site and at the Guardian. She is a young Englishwoman who lives in Rome with her Sicilian husband and their little boy, and she does wonderful simple recipes that actual people eat.
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Post by bixaorellana on Apr 22, 2018 5:02:01 GMT
I have always despised the sauces from shops and will only break down and try one if they are practically giving them away -- not a single one has ever suited me. I'm putting this hint from my son here, as it does constitute a recipe of sorts. I hasten to say that he is a really good cook, not someone who always relies on shortcuts. Come to think of it, it's the good cooks who can be trusted on shortcut hints, because they respect how the food should taste. Anyway, he says that if you're making meatballs and don't have time to make sauce from scratch, to use canned tomato sauce. That's right -- not the fancier ones in jars, but the canned stuff. His recommended brand is Hunt's. He points out that what is basically wrong with ready-made sauces is that they are not mellow enough. However, the long simmering needed to cook the meatballs to the right point will also further cook and mellow the canned sauce. I've tried this several times, and it really works. Obviously you can tweak further with a little sugar or basil, mushrooms, etc., but the premise is sound. Do we have a good recipe? I couldn’t find one and I am less than impressed with shop bought sauce. BASIC TOMATO SAUCE for Pasta (Bixaorellana)
1 small can of tomato paste 1 large can (24 - 32 oz) of canned tomatoes in pieces ~ OR ~ a couple of pounds of fresh tomatoes. (see below) 1 medium onion, chopped fine 3 cloves of garlic, minced salt basil, either dried or fresh
Pour @3 tablespoons of olive oil into a deep heavy pot & put the heat on medium. Saute the onions until they are well wilted, then add the garlic, cooking & stirring until it is translucent.
Pour in the contents of the tomato paste can, and quickly stir it about. Lower the heat & continue cooking the paste until it is fluffy and orange in color -- not red.
Now put in the can of tomatoes. (Cut them into small pieces if they don't already come that way.
Bring the pot to a boil, then lower the heat as far down as it will go. Add a little salt, stir, & leave to simmer for at least 45 minutes, stirring from time to time.
After 45 minutes, check the color & texture of the sauce. It should be orangey and pretty homogenized. Taste it. If it's too acid for your taste, add just a tiny bit of sugar -- a half teaspoon, maybe, stir & taste again. You may want to give it another 5 or 10 minutes cooking time at least.
Towards the very end of the cooking time, put in the basil -- a scant teaspoon of dried, or one or two tablespoonfuls of fresh, chopped. --------------
OPTIONS: To the above recipe, you could add chopped celery & a very small amount of chopped bell pepper, to be put in at the same time you put in the onion to cook. You could also add some chopped mushrooms. -------------- to make the basic sauce with FRESH TOMATOES:
Set aside two of the ripest ones & whirl them in a blender until they are very well liquidized & all the skin & seeds are invisible. This will be the puree you use to begin cooking the sauce.
Plunge the rest of them into a large pot of boiling water, just long enough to see the skin split on at least one of them. Drain them into a colander, then peel them. Cut each tomato in half & scoop out & discard the seeds <-- optional step, then chop the tomato fairly finely. Use these chopped tomatoes instead of the big can of tomatoes called for in the above recipe. Mick, if you're making this for spaghetti & meatballs, cook the meatballs in the sauce. Get the sauce above cooking away while you are searing the meatballs in a pan or under the broiler. Lower them gently into the sauce and let it all bubble away until velvety and delicious. I do a meat sauce along those lines but I also add finely diced carrot. I have never heard of using carrot either. Casimira, Norman & Cheryl (he from Paisley, she from Cape Town) always put minced carrot into their bolognese sauce. Also the original cook at the Rivendell (so ashamed I'm blanking on his name) minced carrot into his split pea soup. So yeah, a nice addition for flavor and texture plus a little color. The carrot is a small proportion of those recipes and winds up not being distinguishable as carrot in the finished dish. Sorry, LaGatta -- all the old ladies in my family made killer sauce and it always had sugar. That's why Sicilian tomato sauce is so delicious, not harsh and acrid like Neopolitan sauce. " style="max-width:100%;"]
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Post by mickthecactus on Apr 22, 2018 8:31:15 GMT
I have never seen Mutti here. Napoli seems to be the favourite. By coincidence on the box this morning was Spanish meatballs (albondigas) with a tomato sauce but served with deep fried potatoes. Check out Jose Pizzaro albondigas and tell me what you think. It looked delicious!
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Post by lagatta on Apr 22, 2018 9:58:25 GMT
In Mediterranean countries, there are endless arguments between people from different villages, let alone regions, about the "proper" recipe. A Greek friend assures me that this is just as much the case in Greece as in Italy...
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Post by mickthecactus on Apr 22, 2018 11:56:32 GMT
Errr... I have to admit that I almost always used canned tomato sauce or canned peeled tomatoes as a base. And sometimes, when I am making a meat sauce, I use a can of ratatouille or a can of piperade basque as a base (it is quite similar to ratatouille but with a little more pepper in it). It is a shortcut that saves an infinite amount of time, and it is also appropriate when cooking for one person, even if some can be saved in the freezer. I have read repeatedly, and I would love confirmation of this, that canned tomatoes are absolutely the best way to eat tomatoes and have the most health benefits, far superior to raw fresh tomatoes, for example. (I will add that tomatoes are the only vegetable about which this may be true -- every other vegetable is better fresh or frozen.) I think frozen carrots are awful. Love all canned vegetables though!
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Post by lagatta on Apr 22, 2018 15:58:30 GMT
Yes, I have absolutely no shame about using canned or jarred tomatoes instead of fresh ones when the latter are out of season, which is most of the year here, except for late summer and early autumn. The nutrients are more available in cooked tomatoes.
Bixa, I have sometimes had a hard time of late eating tomato-based dishes, because of the acridity you mention.
I've made pipérade, but I've never seen tinned pipérade basque here. Ratatouille and chackchouka (a similar dish from Tunisia), yes, often. I'll check at a Spanish grocery when I'm next there. Have never seen it in the more common Latin-American (from a wide range of countries, from Mexico to Argentina and Chile) or Portuguese ones, or at ones targeting immigrants from France, as there are Basques and this dish is made on both sides of the border. It would be a handy shortcut.
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Post by mich64 on Apr 22, 2018 17:04:17 GMT
This past winter I experimented with quite a few brands of jarred and canned pasta sauces. In the end, I resumed using the brand I have used for years, Hunts Original. I have always added spices to it, sage, oregano and pepper. I find when I use dried basil it tends to make it sweet so I stopped adding that. When I brown my minced meat I simmer it with a couple of spring onions (remove the onions) and then combine with the sauce that I have added the spices too and again let simmer most of the afternoon. I usually make this when my husband works the next day to take for his supper as he says it tastes even better the next day.
I agree with Lagatta about why we use canned or jarred tomatoes. The tomatoes we have in the off season are flavourless and do not even have the same consistency of a locally grown tomato so you can imagine how this would affect a sauce.
This summer I am going to try the sauce recipe Bixa provided above and I now can not wait for our first batch of Ontario Grown baskets of vegetables begin to arrive! Even though that will still be a while!
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