Decline of automobile use

[Deleted]

The resurgence of the tramway and the invention of the bike sharing schemes in France over the past 10 years has led to the first decline in history of automobile use in France.

Use of automobiles in cities like Strasbourg and Lyon has declined 10%, as has the average number of kilometers driven by car owners -- also by 10% since the year 2000. The automobile never dominated Paris, but use is declining there as well.

Specialists are saying that one of the principal elements in the decline is a change of attitude. The automobile is now seen by the French as a useful tool but not as a status symbol. In previous decades, there was an attitude of "I have a nice car; it is a pleasure to drive it and let everybody see it." That is now finished, while a new pleasure of taking modern and quiet tramways or riding a bike has settled into place.

Although it is harder to determine, there is also the feeling that the internet has contributed considerably to the decline in driving, simply because so many things can now be done online instead of in person.

[lagatta]

Reference please!

[Deleted]

Hmmm... I have to remember where I read the article, and since I am a news junkie, that will be hard.

[Deleted]

It was on the news bulletin of France 2 yesterday.

[Deleted]

Right! Lagatta will have to watch TV5 more.

[lagatta]

Lagatta almost never watches TV. My TV has not even been plugged in since I last moved 3 years ago and I keep saying I keep it (it is not very big) atop a cabinet in case I want to view films, though I never do at home alone. I work (and screw off) on the computer all day so I don't really want to look at another screen.

I should be able to find a reference to this if I take the time to google.

[Deleted]

I guess this is the right thread for this,although,am not sure...
On NPR this a.m. New electrical car system being introduced in Paris.(Sparked by their success with the bike rental system).

www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=128880529

[Deleted]

Autolib is still at least a year away, but I think there's a good chance that it will work, once they work out the bugs. Since the guarantee will obviously be something pretty solid, it should exclude most of the dubious users.

There are quite a few similar plans already in existence in France. I have hesitated over the already existant Caisse Commune system which is already more than 10 years old and which has 54 pickup points in Paris, but the subscription fee has always stopped me. It will amost certainly be merged into the Autolib system. In the meantime, I have just about decided to subscribe to the Europcar system, which requires a 25€ a month subscription but which gives you a 60% discount on the normal rates and lets you rent a car for even just one hour and leave it anywhere else.

[Jazz]

There are definitely signs of a resurgence in the use of subways, buses, streetcars and bicycles in Toronto. I would agree that,

... a change of attitude is determining this. Walking and cycling have gained in ‘status’.

... the internet is a factor, simply because so many things can be done online instead of in person.

However, there is a vast difference between France and Canada. Especially between Paris and Toronto. The two cities are close in population and physical area. Our city planners designed very differently with regard to the future. Ie: in Paris, you have 16 metro lines, the RER, and buses. In both in the inner core and the banlieu you are rarely more than 500m from a metro stop. Here, we have 4 lines and in much of the city proper and suburbs, you are not at all close to a subway stop. A trip that may take 20 minutes in Paris would be perhaps an hour and a half here--- subway to point A, wait for bus (might be a 40 minute wait), bus ride of 30 minutes, then possibly a walk from there. Most people don’t want to spend 3 hours a day in transit (often freezing at a bus stop) when they can drive in one hour total.

If we had subway service to all of these areas, I know that people would use it. But, we don’t. We need more subway lines. One attitude that is growing and that is very much a part of my life is shopping locally. I am fortunate in that I live in a rich and textured neighborhood with many great vegetable stores, a weekly farmers market just minutes away….most of my needs are met within 10 blocks. Those who live in the suburbs are ‘forced’ to become 2 car families. They can’t walk to a grocery store most of the time, to say nothing of their other essential needs.

[lagatta]

Modern trams can be practically as fast as subways/undergrounds/metros. The key is giving the trams right of way. And they are very comfy (and sleek, and pretty) and more accessible to people with any temporary or permanent limit on mobility (disability, age, pregnancy, parents with wee children in tow, people schlepping heavy things, though there have to be rules about that.

[cristina]

Just at about the same time that University girl decided that San Francisco was where she wanted to land, I saw a program on Zip Cars, basically a Velib style program for cars in really urban areas.

Now that she is living in SF, I haven't remembered to ask her about it. As it is, she is working south of SFO airport, near Palo Alto, but wants to live in the city. Public transport may not work for her so she may need to keep her car. I had hoped she wouldn't.

[auntieannie]

I visited a friend in Palo Alto a few years ago and there was a direct train service to the city centre... but then I didn't have to try and commute in it.

[Deleted]

People seem to forget often that even when public transportation takes longer than using a car (usually it doesn't, though), sometimes it gives you precious time to read a book or a newspaper.

I confess that every now and then when I rent a car for the weekend, the rate is often the same for 2 or 3 days, so I pick up the car Thursday instead of Friday just to take advantage of it. Like an imbecile, I take the car to drive to work on Friday, because it is an exotic pleasure, but then I can't read my newspaper and often I don't have time to look at it all day. I am an idiot.

[cristina]

Aug 4, 2010 20:43:34 GMT auntieannie said:

I visited a friend in Palo Alto a few years ago and there was a direct train service to the city centre... but then I didn't have to try and commute in it.

At the moment, my more or less homeless daughter is driving 86 miles each way to get to her new job. She is trying to figure things out on her own, which I applaud loudly. But at the same time I wish for her to understand how much car insurance costs (she is still on our policy); but it won't be long before the insurance company makes her get her own, far more expensive policy. She has an unfortunate driving history, according to most insurers..

[Deleted]

There was no decline in automobile use where I was in Long Island to be sure. I have not done that much driving in a very, very long time and with gas prices at $3.15 a gallon,driving a V6 Ford,I was forever putting money into that gas tank. All the villages and hamlets in the area are so spread apart and services,groceries,banks,offices,places I needed to go on a frequent basis were only accessible by car for the most part.
There was a steady stream of traffic on the main route almost all the time despite it being wintertime in a mainly resort type of area.
The only bicycle riding I did was to the library,friends homes and the beach. I realized how much more bike friendly and transit accessible NOLA really is. I never drive that much here!!!

[Deleted]

I just subscribed to a car rental service that has cheap hourly rates when you just need to run a quick errand. This might be perfect for when I need to take my mother around. I have a free three-month trial period, and then I would have to pay 25€ a month if I want to continue. That's a perfect length of trial period for me because it should be enough time to determine if my mother is declining too much to go out anymore and if I will really need to rent cars often.

[bixaorellana]

Kerouac, at what point would that become cost effective compared to using cabs? I have no idea what taxi fares are where you live.

We have lots of public transportation here. If you're outside the city proper there are colectivos (shared taxis -- 60 cents US), which are usually faster than buses (44 cents US regular/ 24 old-age fare) and certainly economical. I would a trillion times rather take public transportation downtown than to endure the traffic in my own car, not to mention the problem of finding parking. There are many regular taxis in the city (min. price, @$3 US), but I can't rely on finding one out where I live. For quick jaunts out here, there are moto-taxis (tuk-tuks), which generally cost 40 cents US. I'm including the prices to show that it's usually cheaper to use public transportation than to take ones own car.

[Deleted]

The minimum fare for a taxi in Paris is 6.10€ -- even if you go only to the end of the street.

I rarely take taxis, but generally I have paid amounts like 10-12€ to go a few kilometers. A taxi to Charles de Gaulle airport is often at least 50€ (40€ for me because I live at the northern edge of the city). On top of that there are three different applicable rates depending on the time of day and the day of the week -- or both.

Anyway, I made my first reservation with the new system (free for 3 months, and then I will have to decide if I join or not). 26€ for one day, including insurance and 250km.

[bixaorellana]

Yow -- those fares would hurt. It sounds as though it would be worth it to you for day trips, besides the errands.

In line with the OP, I should have mentioned that I don't know if there is decline of automobile use here or not. There is certainly much more traffic than when I moved here, but part of that is due to population growth. I suspect there will be more use of private autos, not less, as people can afford them. This area is totally backward when it comes to consciousness about pollution, etc.

[Deleted]

I think it is the increase of oil prices that will influence people more than pollution in the end. Car commercials are worded these days to practically make you think you are doing the environment a favor if you buy their product.

[fumobici]

I agree. Traffic here is completely independent of the economy. People will drive no matter what. I wonder if people would cut back on driving or food if forced to choose.

I'd like to see the government slap a huge gas tax increase on and earmark the revenue for development of renewable energy infrastructure and deficit reduction. The first countries to get off imported oil and develop viable alternatives will have enormous economic advantages over those that stand pat. The technical means essentially exist to permanently wean the US from imported oil by replacing that input with solar, wind and geothermal but the required investments are huge. The huge number of American unemployed would make a perfect workforce to build the necessary infrastructures too. The problem is that only the government could make it happen in a timely manner, private industry simply lacks the means and will to act on that scale and "big government" is a dirty word in American politics right now.

[onlymark]

In Egypt car ownership is increasing quite quickly. It has been quoted that there are 30% more cars on the road than 5 years ago. I find this an exaggeration but nevertheless it does seem a lot busier than when I first came here.
This is partly due to a decrease in taxes when buying a car but it is also due to the cost of fuel being relatively stable as it is subsidised by the government and apart from a couple of sharp increases, has remained affordable still.
Diesel (the most used fuel by volume) is equivalent to Euro 0.14c per litre, petrol is Euro 0.21c per litre for basic unleaded.

I only have experience of cheaper fuel and that was in Iran.

[Deleted]

I remember my first trip to Saudi Arabia when a liter of petrol cost less than a bottle of water.

[myrt]

It's hardly fair to keep putting the cost of fuel up for those of us who rely on our cars for transport in the rural areas.....there are very few alternatives around me - there is a bus service but it is hardly viable and mainly used for those who don't work and have free bus passes anyway. I live 2 miles from anywhere and 10 miles from any towns. There are no footpaths along the busy route to my daughter's school so I have to take her in the car.
I am well aware of the environmental costs of using a car but I try to balance them by growing a lot of my own food, recycling everything possible and only using my car to go to work and school. I never use aeroplanes (can't afford holidays!), always shop as locally as possible and try to 'consume' as little as possible. It's relatively easy for those who live in urban areas to be car free but for country dwellers it's impossible. To keep adding on punitive rises in fuel just makes life even harder for us....and, in the UK at least, we are already hugely disadvantaged in terms of income, employment and opportunities.

[bixaorellana]

Extremely important point, Myrt.

All of the transportation available to me here does not exist in most of the places I visit in the States. It's either rent a car or depend on family members to ferry me around. I would say in most parts of the US, people either can't rely on buses, or only with great hardship.

There has been much discussion of bike paths on other parts of this forum, but bicycles aren't a viable mode of transportation for everyone and certainly not in winter in some places. I would like to use my bike more for regular transportation, but there are NO shoulders on any of the roads here, most of which are narrow besides.

It is true that governments at all levels need to address the problem of lessening traffic while offering efficient, affordable transportation to everyone.

The colectivos we have here were once common in rural USA -- they were called jitneys. Those and the moto-taxis would be a godsend to rural dwellers in more developed countries. They certainly are here. Not only that, they are a solid opportunity for a bootstrap business.

[myrt]

There is a thriving community transport scheme in one of my local villages which is mainly used by OAP's and vulnerable people for hospital and doctor trips but there is also a weekly trip to the nearest town for shopping etc.
Quite a few people I know use the supermarkets home delivery but I refuse absolutely to give them any more control over the food and goods I buy. It's a sad day when I can't go and physically pick and choose my groceries. I always take my mother with me and often have a list of my other family's requirements so that's my justification for always driving!
When I lived in a New Town previous my move to the country I always biked everywhere as there was a very extensive biking /footpath network but here there is nothing like that and you take your life in your hands biking along the very busy roads - so I don't....
The sad fact is, that the rural communities are completely dependant on their cars and the policy makers are doing their best to make us all move to suburbia.....it's getting harder and harder to live and work in the countryside......

[lagatta]

That is wonderful, myrt. While I live in a central district of a major city (though not as big as Mexico, NYC or London), environmentalists have been thinking about schemes for improving transport in rural areas for people without cars or who are unable to drive. That is a wonderful solution. There are buses in some districts here in Montréal designed for elderly and ailing people for the visits to hospital or major clinics but also to shopping centres and streets.

I don't like using supermarket delivery either. Doubt they carefully choose the nicest veg or roast.

Bixa, nobody, not even in Amsterdam or Copenhagen, thinks bicycles are the only transport solution - I travel to Amsterdam at least once a year for work and can testify to the equal importance of the many tram lines, accessible to almost everyone (low floor, designed for wheelchairs and baby strollers, with audio and visual announcement of stops). Actually in Amsterdam people cycle from early childhood up to a great age, but of course some people have disabilities or ailments that make this impossible (even with an adapted bicycle or tricycle) and I doubt most of the octogenarian cyclists use their Opa and Omafietsen when there is a lot of snow and ice.

As for the roads, they must be calmed to make them cycle-friendly in rural areas. That is a social problem in the UK and US, and in parts of Canada (we've made a lot of progress in Québec, by design). Countryside cycling was an important tradition in the UK, and must be made safe once again. It is why even the traditional upright bicycles in the UK had speeds, unlike their counterparts in the flat Netherlands.

[bixaorellana]

Why would you think that I thought that anyone thought of bicycles as the only transport solution, LaGatta?

[myrt]

Yesterday I fervently wished for a dramatic and instantaneous decline in the use of the automobile! I drove to my nearest large town (no buses available for me) and drove round and round in ever more frustration trying to find somewhere to park (along with several thousand other drivers) so I could take my daughter to see the Christmas Pantomime. After over 90 minutes of fruitless searching I simply gave up and we went to visit middle daughter and her little baby - much more fun and definitely much more rewarding!
I am soooo glad to be a country dweller.........getting stuck behind a very slow tractor just doesn't compare.....

[Jazz]

I’m still not noticing much decline in the use of automobiles in Toronto. I will say this, when my 2001 Honda Civic passes on, I will not buy another car. It’s now going into its 11th year with almost perfect performance, but with the cheapest car (as is the Honda), the running costs are still about 8,500 CDN/year ( 6,370 €).

Kerouac and Fumobici, #19 and 20. You both seem to agree, hit the wallet! Yes, I agree that this is by far the most effective, more so than forcing people to become aware of pollution and carbon footprints. BUT, neither of you seem want to consider the fact that the North American transportation system was built on totally different principals from the European system. We had far greater areas to consider. And, you are not considering daily life, be it in Europe or NA.

Dec 8, 2010 13:11:13 GMT myrt said:

It's hardly fair to keep putting the cost of fuel up for those of us who rely on our cars for transport in the rural areas.....there are very few alternatives around me - there is a bus service but it is hardly viable and mainly used for those who don't work and have free bus passes anyway. I live 2 miles from anywhere and 10 miles from any towns. There are no footpaths along the busy route to my daughter's school so I have to take her in the car.
I am well aware of the environmental costs of using a car but I try to balance them by growing a lot of my own food, recycling everything possible and only using my car to go to work and school. I never use aeroplanes (can't afford holidays!), always shop as locally as possible and try to 'consume' as little as possible. It's relatively easy for those who live in urban areas to be car free but for country dwellers it's impossible. To keep adding on punitive rises in fuel just makes life even harder for us....and, in the UK at least, we are already hugely disadvantaged in terms of income, employment and opportunities.

Very significant.

Dec 8, 2010 6:14:29 GMT fumobici said:

I agree. Traffic here is completely independent of the economy. People will drive no matter what. I wonder if people would cut back on driving or food if forced to choose.

I'd like to see the government slap a huge gas tax increase on and earmark the revenue for development of renewable energy infrastructure and deficit reduction. The first countries to get off imported oil and develop viable alternatives will have enormous economic advantages over those that stand pat. The technical means essentially exist to permanently wean the US from imported oil by replacing that input with solar, wind and geothermal but the required investments are huge. The huge number of American unemployed would make a perfect workforce to build the necessary infrastructures too. The problem is that only the government could make it happen in a timely manner, private industry simply lacks the means and will to act on that scale and "big government" is a dirty word in American politics right now.

Fumobici, I disagree with two of your points.

1. 'I wonder if people would cut back on food or driving if forced to choose.'
This 'question' could only be posed from someone from a middle or upper class background. YES, I can assure you, people would rather eat than drive.

2. I'd like to see the government slap a huge gas tax increase on and earmark the revenue for development of renewable energy infrastructure and deficit reduction etc...
See Myrt's response above. Your response reeks of intellectualism and a healthy personal budget.