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Post by imec on Aug 8, 2009 18:22:23 GMT
Was in Toronto and Pittsburgh this week (one night each). Here are a couple of pics from my room in TO. I bet others have some better ones... As you can see, construction is still rampant despite the recession.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 18:30:48 GMT
My very first thought was indeed "oh, they're still building things!"
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2009 18:46:06 GMT
Toronto is huge isn't it? The last time I was there, I felt so lost. Good job I was with people who knew their way around.
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Post by traveler63 on Aug 10, 2009 2:19:05 GMT
I think that Toronto is very nice!!!! I have decided that Montreal, Toronto, Quebec have to go on our list of places to visit. You Canadians really do have a beautiful country. Kirk and I have even talked about taking a train across some of your country.
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Post by imec on Aug 11, 2009 23:38:59 GMT
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Post by Jazz on Aug 12, 2009 0:16:21 GMT
Imec, unfortunately you appear to be staying in the least inviting area of Toronto in my opinion...high rise, expensive chain hotels, no neighborhood feel, and desolate at night. I seldom go there, day or night. If you are here for a few days, you need to venture out of this area! Closest for you would be to walk to Queen Street West and walk west from University, for blocks and blocks, venturing a few blocks north and south. this is very alive and becomes more vital as you go west. Or, hop the Queen street car east and go out to the Beaches, walk along the boardwalk, enjoy the cafes....but, the beach itself is the best. There are many excellent 'villages' that you could visit, Chinatown (Spadina and Dundas), the Greek area (on Dansforth Avenue...between Broadview and east of Pape), Indiatown..(Gerrard, east of Broadview for many blocks), the east European area (around Ronscesvalles, or in the High Park area). The student area -the Annex- all around the University of Toronto,(Bloor and Spadina)....the western annex becomes very east Asian. Little Italy is concentrated on College street west of Spadina and also in my area, St. Clair west. The Portuguese population is roughly around Kensington market and west and south. etc. etc. If you have time you may want to take a trip to the Toronto islands by ferry and walk and bicycle. Here is a lovely restaurant to go to, www.rectorycafe.com/Home/tabid/170/Default.aspxToronto is quite wonderful in its way and has the highest ethnic population in Canada, now I think it is 60%. It is rich and textured.
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Post by lagatta on Aug 12, 2009 2:09:32 GMT
Jazz, I agree, and felt much the same about the recent thread about Montréal. We have particular reason to hate some of the modern stuff you can see anywhere as in many cases community groups fought to preserve historic buildings and neighbourhoods where some of those things went up (we were successful in other cases, as were you against the bloody Spadina expressway - and now there is a lovely tram down Spadina!) A tram that brings business - I always wonder why a certain type of small businessperson opposes such initiatives, when the capital investment is a huge boost to commerce as well as other activities.
Toronto islands are wonderful, and very close to the central business district.
Obviously, hotel paid for by employer/firm - I've certainly experienced exactly that, and it was particularly excruciating in Québec City where there were so many charming places that would have cost employer less to rent out, even as a bloc. There were TWO beds in the room I was staying in, with no sweetheart in my arms and no cat at my feet. I was there to work - that was not a problem - but it seemed absurd to be taking up so much space, and it wasn't pleasant space as in an airy rental.
A better set-up for me as a work traveller would be a smaller bed in a smaller bed-nook, and a wee kitchenette - to be able to make coffee and have a bit of breakfast, and also a late-night supper. I was usually working very long hours when doing such travel, but I had no desire to go out for a supper unless I knew I'd be alongside a work colleague ... and even then sometimes, I'd prefer getting into loungey clothes and eating in.
I'm from far too poor a family background to even contemplate room service, even if it would be reimbursed. Eating healthy food instead of junk, yes. Splurging on a special meal with a friend, yes. But not that kind of expense.
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Post by imec on Aug 12, 2009 5:16:45 GMT
Jazz, thanks, but it's just where I sleep - I actually get around Toronto quite a bit. Tonight I dined with a customer at Yonge and St. Clair and walked all the way back to the Hilton. I spend all sorts of time in Queen West, Spadina, Annex, Kensington, the beach, College (my favorite TO restaurant is Chiado), Danforth - you name it. I always have a car so I also get to see the outlying areas too. I love Toronto and bring my wife here at least once a year - we don't just stay in the financial district.
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Post by bjd on Aug 20, 2009 12:23:08 GMT
I don't usually look at this section of AnyPort but did so when I saw the heading of Toronto.
Of course the city has changed enormously since I left 30 years ago and areas that used to be poor and ethnic (Queen St West, for example) or poor and ratty (King Street West) are now trendy.
When I get to Toronto, I do go and walk around some of those areas because they are more picturesque, but admit that I go to the downtown, office building area -- simply because to me it looks like North America, and it's something that I don't find anywhere that I usually go. Of course, only during the day -- there is nothing there in the evenings.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2009 12:47:26 GMT
I'm so curious bjd ,about your" look North American" references ( The Imecs in France ,and now this). What is the distinction that you are referring to? (as I sit here wondering,'do I look North American? ') With so many regions ,can one narrow it down to a particular look in both people and places?
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Post by bixaorellana on Aug 20, 2009 16:20:32 GMT
Oh -- I am embarrassed! I looked at the OP when it was new, forgot to respond, and didn't see how the thread had grown. Thank you for this, Imec, it's most interesting.
I really know nothing about Canada, and the glimpses posted on Any Port prove that it's a fascinating country.
Okay -- questions: what is the 1930s style needle in the first picture? What about that column in front of it? I see the clock tower of the old city hall, but is it part of that handsome complex of old buildings beyond the opera house? The new city hall is ........ odd.
The pictures and Jazz's post certainly show Toronto as a great travel destination.
Bjd points out something I always find so discouraging -- the absolute coma into which central business districts fall at night in the US. By the time city fathers decide to float bond issues to create "gaslight districts", the sections of downtown they've decided to "revitalize" are already completely dead.
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Post by imec on Aug 20, 2009 16:48:59 GMT
Well, I don't see the needle in the first picture (of either of my 2 posts), so I'll assume you mean the 2nd picture of the second post. That's the Canada Life Building (an insurance company ) built between 1929 and 1931. I don't know what the column is in front of it on University Avenue (in fact never even notice it even though I walk past there all the time.
The clock tower and the old city hall (1899) upon which it sits is not part of the buildings beyond the opera house. If you imagine turning toward the right while looking at the opera house, you will see the view shown in the next picture (Sheraton Hotel with the clock tower peaking out from beind). No idea what those buildings are. The "new" city hall opened in 1965 - pretty "space age" for it's time. The saucer like structure in the centre is the council chamber.
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Post by imec on Aug 20, 2009 16:55:56 GMT
The area is not completely dead at night. There are numerous restaurants and bars directly in the downtown area and financial district. And the area is adjacent to the "entertainment district" (theatres, restaurants, bars etc.) and is close to major attractions such as the Air Canada Centre (hockey, basketball, concerts), Rogers Centre (formerly Skydome), CN Tower, Opera House... The area is far more populated during the day due to the high ratio of office space to residential space - but it doesn't "shut down" as tightly as many North American downtowns do.
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Post by Jazz on Aug 20, 2009 17:19:03 GMT
Bixa, I don't know the 'needle' that you mean either.
*guilt*....I haven't yet posted on Toronto. However, I can say that ALL of the photos posted on this forum thus far do not show 'my' Toronto. I wince as I see these no-name boring modern buildings. If you must limit yourself to photographing modern buildings, (and ignore the other 80% of the city) why not photo the intriguing ones? This is not Toronto.
We are a city of vibrant 'ethnic villages' (60% of our population is immigrant). We are a city of some wonderful historic areas....historic in North American terms, perhaps 100-200 years old. We are a city of markets and lush green parks. We are a city with some very interesting modern architecture, especially the Royal Ontario Museum and the Art Gallery of Toronto. Many of our cafes and restaurants are welll worth a visit, and now, the terraces are beautiful. We ,too, have our unexplored areas, our unexpected graffiti, our bohemian enclaves and our lovely Toronto islands. There are reasons why we have an exploding immigrant population...certainly the highest in Canada and probably in North America. It is a good place to be, to grow, and know that the culture you bring will be respected and enjoyed.
I have suffered with time and technological problems, but I will try to go and photo this for you.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2009 17:21:18 GMT
When I have been to Toronto, I have found Yonge street still pretty lively in the early evening. But I don't really stay out late to see what happens next.
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Post by Jazz on Aug 20, 2009 17:24:19 GMT
When I have been to Toronto, I have found Yonge street still pretty lively in the early evening. But I don't really stay out late to see what happens next. Yonge Street is one very small part of the city, and, a combination of tacky and boring. Is this the extent of your nightlife here?
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Post by bixaorellana on Aug 20, 2009 17:32:12 GMT
<------ So what's this space needley looking thing, then? Jazz, I can't agree with the view that only old is good. Yes, it's a crime when lovely old, still usable buildings are pulled down. But time moves on and new esthetics and states of consciousness deserve outlets as well. All historical old stuff was at one time new and cutting edge as well.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2009 17:37:00 GMT
Unfortunately yes, because I never have any idea where to go -- like most visitors. Twice I have spent time there when my wife was filming a movie in town. She was in the same apartment tower both times (great view from 25 floors up), just one block from that horrible place that claims to be "the largest bookstore in the world." One time was with a friend, and we stayed in a hotel on Yonge Street -- plenty of nearby restaurants, which is all we noticed. It was a driving trip with an overnight in Toronto and not a 'discover Toronto' trip.
Other times I have driven through and spent a night -where?- (I have no idea) which is when I went up the CN Tower to look at tiny parking lots down below or visit the mall on Yonge with the Simpson's (?) and various other stores.
I did visit Chinatown when I was there with my wife, and it was fascinating, and also another ethnic area where we went to a French restaurant because she was craving moules marinière, but I think that the area was mostly Portuguese (and it was the precise moment when Nelly Furtado had her first hit -- it was coming out of my ears).
One morning we went to some pancake place in the middle of nowhere with really excellent pancakes... but frankly, I must admit that I know absolutely nothing about Toronto.
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Post by imec on Aug 20, 2009 17:49:39 GMT
If you must limit yourself to photographing modern buildings, (and ignore the other 80% of the city) why not photo the intriguing ones? As I said earlier - it's where I sleep. I'm simply sharing my "day in the life" experiences - not doing a Toronto photo essay. It's simply what I see from my hotel room. And BTW, I happen to think that the Canada Life building is an interesting late example of one of the Beaux Arts style and the "new" city hall is a superb example of the modernist style of the 60s (it was designed by a Finn). Actually, it is. Toronto is first and foremost, a commercial centre - one that plays a fundamental role in driving the economy of the whole country. We are a city of vibrant 'ethnic villages' (60% of our population is immigrant). We are a city of some wonderful historic areas....historic in North American terms, perhaps 100-200 years old. We are a city of markets and lush green parks. We are a city with some very interesting modern architecture, especially the Royal Ontario Museum and the Art Gallery of Toronto. Many of our cafes and restaurants are welll worth a visit, and now, the terraces are beautiful. We ,too, have our unexplored areas, our unexpected graffiti, our bohemian enclaves and our lovely Toronto islands. There are reasons why we have an exploding immigrant population...certainly the highest in Canada and probably in North America. It is a good place to be, to grow, and know that the culture you bring will be respected and enjoyed. No question, it is in fact one of my favorite places in North America. But none of this would exist true without the massive population - which, in turn wouldn't have occured without extensive commercial development. I think Toronto's commercial success is something to be proud of. Particularly as it has not occurred at the cost of the obliteration of the neighborhoods you describe - in fact it could be argued that the survival and revitalization of most of those areas is a direct result of commercial development in the downtown core as well as the outlying suburbs. jazz, I'm with you - I LOVE Toronto - ALL of it.
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Post by Jazz on Aug 20, 2009 17:52:10 GMT
The area is not completely dead at night. There are numerous restaurants and bars directly in the downtown area and financial district. And the area is adjacent to the "entertainment district" (theatres, restaurants, bars etc.) and is close to major attractions such as the Air Canada Centre (hockey, basketball, concerts), Rogers Centre (formerly Skydome), CN Tower, Opera House... The area is far more populated during the day due to the high ratio of office space to residential space - but it doesn't "shut down" as tightly as many North American downtowns do. Imec, as you said, this area is not completely dead at night, which is unusual for a financial district in any city. In addition to what you have pointed out, this area is also within a ten minute walk of the major theatre district of Toronto. Alternative theatre is found in many other unique areas. Our finacial district is absolutely vibrant compared to other financial districts in cities I have visited in the world not just North America.....how lively is the 1st Arrondissment around the Bourse in Paris? I would never go there at night. If you want night life in Toronto this is where you go: ...Queen St. West from University Avenue and walk for about fifteen blocks, venture north and south for a few blocks. ...Queen St. East...go to the Beaches, enjoy the cafes and the lakefront. ...the Danforth...from Broadview east for fifteen blocks, this is the Greek area. ...College St. west from Spadina for twenty blocks...the Italian area. ...Spadina from Dundas north to College...Chinese/Vietnamese. ...the Annex...St. George west to Lansdowne, heavy student area which then slowly becomes more ethnic...Vietnamese/Korean. ...King St. from Jarvis to Bathurst. ...Yonge St. from Dundas, many blocks north to Lawrence (about 40 blocks)....erratic in character....mostly tacky.
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Post by imec on Aug 20, 2009 17:52:57 GMT
30's style? It's the CN Tower - built in the 70's.
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Post by Jazz on Aug 20, 2009 17:59:45 GMT
<------ So what's this space needley looking thing, then? Jazz, I can't agree with the view that only old is good. Yes, it's a crime when lovely old, still usable buildings are pulled down. But time moves on and new esthetics and states of consciousness deserve outlets as well. All historical old stuff was at one time new and cutting edge as well. That is the CN tower. However, I didn't say that only old is good. Not at all, and I completely agree with you. What I protest is mediocre to poor modern architecture as being portrayed as all that is to be found in Toronto, or in any city.
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Post by imec on Aug 20, 2009 18:00:49 GMT
Jazz, thanks, but it's just where I sleep - I actually get around Toronto quite a bit. Tonight I dined with a customer at Yonge and St. Clair and walked all the way back to the Hilton. I spend all sorts of time in Queen West, Spadina, Annex, Kensington, the beach, College (my favorite TO restaurant is Chiado), Danforth - you name it. I always have a car so I also get to see the outlying areas too. I love Toronto and bring my wife here at least once a year - we don't just stay in the financial district. jazz, you may have missed the reply I posted earlier. I've been visiting Toronto often enough and long enough to get to know it reasonably well - I even get to know places that my local friends don't know...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2009 18:17:17 GMT
And I have been there at least half a dozen times and feel that I know nothing about it.
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Post by Jazz on Aug 20, 2009 18:35:06 GMT
Unfortunately yes, because I never have any idea where to go -- like most visitors. Twice I have spent time there when my wife was filming a movie in town. She was in the same apartment tower both times (great view from 25 floors up), just one block from that horrible place that claims to be "the largest bookstore in the world." One time was with a friend, and we stayed in a hotel on Yonge Street -- plenty of nearby restaurants, which is all we noticed. It was a driving trip with an overnight in Toronto and not a 'discover Toronto' trip. Other times I have driven through and spent a night -where?- (I have no idea) which is when I went up the CN Tower to look at tiny parking lots down below or visit the mall on Yonge with the Simpson's (?) and various other stores. I did visit Chinatown when I was there with my wife, and it was fascinating, and also another ethnic area where we went to a French restaurant because she was craving moules marinière, but I think that the area was mostly Portuguese (and it was the precise moment when Nelly Furtado had her first hit -- it was coming out of my ears). One morning we went to some pancake place in the middle of nowhere with really excellent pancakes... but frankly, I must admit that I know absolutely nothing about Toronto. Kerouac, I don't know what to say. You are the most well travelled poster on the forum. Why would you visit a city (in this case, Toronto) and (seemingly) take no effort to research it? It sounds like you take more time to research a food post here than you bothered with your trips to Toronto! Why? You and your wife were staying very close to Imec, perhaps a ten minute walk. This whole area is the last place that anyone would bother to go to, certainly at night. The restaurants are pathetic. There is little to see. Its 'character' (?) is boringly eclectic...a mish mash of things that would make my list of places Never to Take a Guest. The specific area near the World's Biggest Bookstore is boringly tacky. It seems that many travellers have a negative, preconceived opinion of Toronto based on nothing. They dismiss it as boring, WASP (!!!), cold, etc. Toronto has evolved in the last sixty years. It is no longer 'hogtown' or Toronto the Good. Many, many people from all over the world do want to live here. And so, it is worth a bit of research so that you do not end up in the most tedious area and taking that image away with you as 'Toronto'. Kerouac, if you visit Toronto again and haven't taken the time to research it, please feel free to PM me for some suggestions. ***2006 immigrant population of Toronto (it has grown since then) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_TorontoI can't find the statistics ( I'm sure that Kerouac can), but I think that Paris has a much lower immigrant population.
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Post by imec on Aug 20, 2009 19:11:19 GMT
This whole area is the last place that anyone would bother to go to, certainly at night. The restaurants are pathetic. Are we talking about the same area? Nota Bene, Canoe, Forte, Fifth Grill, Rain, George, Colbourne Lane, Lai Wah Heen, Bymark, Vertical, Biffs, Jamie Kennedy... It's a five minute walk to Queen, ten or so to Spadina. Loads of places for good cheap eats in those areas.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2009 19:18:10 GMT
Jazz, the problem for me is that Toronto has never been on my destination list because guidebooks about Ontario are mostly about getting somewhere else. So it has just been a stopover point for me except when meeting up with my wife for our weird 4 or 5 day conjugal encounters. (She is trying to get me to come to NYC at the moment.)
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Post by imec on Aug 20, 2009 19:22:42 GMT
our weird 4 or 5 day conjugal encounters. Now there's a topic worthy of it's own thread...
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Post by bjd on Aug 20, 2009 19:59:53 GMT
I seem to have thrown Casimira with my "North American look" comments. Cities in N America don't look like cities in Europe, or Africa, or S America. I imagine they would look like cities in Australia, but that is just supposition on my part. The reason I do go to the areas that Jazz dislikes so much is that those are the parts of the city that make me realize that I am really in N America. Europeans (the French in particular) are not good at skyscrapers and such. The main effort at modernism in Paris -- la Défense -- is awful. Manhattan could never have been built in Europe.
As for people looking different -- well they just do. One of the usual people-watching activities in cities like Paris is guessing where tourists are from -- you know -- East Europeans or Germans with socks in their sandals, Italian women wouldn't walk around with bum bags, etc.
When I was growing up in Toronto, the city was indeed called 'Toronto the Good' -- probably because of the Scottish-Presbyterian influence. When we arrived there, movie theatres were closed on Sundays! And there was an old joke about a contest: first prize was a week in Toronto. 2nd prize was two weeks in Toronto.
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Post by lagatta on Aug 20, 2009 20:15:10 GMT
L'Institut du monde arabe in Paris is one of the most beautiful modern buildings I've ever seen, and I'm sure I could come up with other examples thinking about it a bit. I'm not terribly fond of modern, but cities like Berlin have had to rebuild after the war, and there are some very impressive structures (and other very ugly ones).
I haven't been to Toronto in what, 3 or 4 years? Alas I most often go to work at conferences, but often those are near University of Toronto so I do get to Kensington Market and the Spadina Chinatown.
There are nice places to stay in that area too - from modest b+bs to more impressive hotels and guesthouses.
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