|
Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2010 22:41:34 GMT
We will have to keep wondering if a wider variety of legal items in addition to alcohol and tobacco might be enough to convince most people not to stray to the really bad stuff. No country seems ready to take the plunge yet.
Frankly, I tried just about everything, including the really worst stuff, but that's just me. I was curious, but I also had enough sense to know absolutely when to stop (and yes, stopping is unpleasant and takes will power that apparently a lot of people do not have).
|
|
|
Post by mich64 on Nov 8, 2010 14:22:30 GMT
I am very very angry with Illegal drugs. I despise illegal drug use. I have these very strong feelings because 6 months ago our 23 year old nephew called begging his Uncle to come and get him. My husband immediately drove to get him...he was living in an apartment with a few fellow addicts and there were needles everywhere. He had our nephew pack up his belongings (everything he owned was easily contained in a duffel bag), told him there had better not be any needles in the bag and brought him home.
We got him into a methadone program and he was doing well until recently he had a setback, again, with some hard feelings he has gotten back to drug free.
We love him dearly, we will never ever give up on him. We will continue to house him, feed him and encourage him to get his education, he has the equivalent of 9th grade, to keep a job, he has been employed now for 3 months. We do not give him any money.
He became addicted by drug pushers that got him started at age 11 in the school yard.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2010 15:21:30 GMT
Well, at least I never tried anything that required a needle.
|
|
|
Post by mich64 on Nov 8, 2010 16:47:07 GMT
I am so glad Kerouac that you did not. These kids are being addicted by sticker tattoos that were laced with drugs absorbed into his skin, can you imagine giving this to a child knowing what you are going to do them!? He of course just thought they were fun new stickers from his favorite Disney movie at the time, he had no idea about them having drugs attached to them. This led to heavier and heavier drug use. It has been one struggle after another to try to help him overcome his addictions. He did not have a chance at life, he did not make a choice. It is a form of child abuse, is it not? If they legalize some of these drugs, it will be even easier to abuse kids into a life of drug addiction because the adult purchasing the drugs legally are not watched to whom or how they might pass them on to others. We pray daily that by giving him a safe place to live, good food to eat, telling him we love him every night when saying goodnight and sharing our lives with him will give him the strength to eventually live on his own and to be happy.
|
|
|
Post by komsomol on Nov 8, 2010 17:48:24 GMT
|
|
|
Post by mich64 on Nov 8, 2010 18:47:41 GMT
Konsomol, as I wrote, it began this way, but lead to other drugs. I know your intention was to make me aware that drug users lie but we have gone through many years of the lying, manipulation and intervention, we have finally gotten to honesty.
I cannot begin to write the things that he/we lived through and the topics we have had to discuss and the consequences of his actions. This has been a 12 year fight and there are not many myths, urban legends or truths that our family has not heard of or experienced.
To answer your question, no, he did not tell me this. His older brother did and has the horrible memory and guilt of seeing it happen from across the playground. They were at the age where the older brother did not want his younger brother tagging around him. We can only imagine how that felt and continues to feel today.
|
|
|
Post by komsomol on Nov 8, 2010 19:05:24 GMT
I'm glad that things are going better, but it is always best to get back to the real reason that it all began. Perhaps it is the parents or brother who are trying to deny their responsibility by using untrue stories.
|
|
|
Post by cheerypeabrain on Nov 8, 2010 19:25:56 GMT
This afternoon I was making bread when my son came down to help with the kneading. It was lovely spending time together talking and laughing...he's such good company. It makes me want to weep when I think about what he's lost by all the years of drug taking..but altho I know that people often go back to drugs...I just can't think about the prospect of my son doing so. I spose we'll just cope with anything that happens. I wish I could trust him again. Like I've said before...at least he's alive!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2010 19:32:54 GMT
How such things start probably makes no difference. Did your parents not love you enough? Did you hang out with the wrong crowd? Did a movie you saw make it look interesting? Did you fall in love with someone who wanted you to share their obsession? The possibilities are endless. Knowing how to get out of the situation is what counts, as well as being surrounded by the proper people who can help if needed. Nevertheless, I do believe that if the legal drugs (tobacco, alcohol) were made illegal and the other stuff was authorized, there would probably be far fewer deaths. Society just never knows what it really wants, but boy those tobacco and alcohol taxes really do pay a lot of politicians' salaries.
|
|
|
Post by fumobici on Nov 8, 2010 19:35:04 GMT
I am so glad Kerouac that you did not. These kids are being addicted by sticker tattoos that were laced with drugs absorbed into his skin, can you imagine giving this to a child knowing what you are going to do them!? With all due respect, this story sounds like hysterical urban mythology. If you can document such a thing having verifiably ever happened anywhere, my apologies.
|
|
|
Post by mich64 on Nov 8, 2010 19:55:47 GMT
Hi Komsomol, I appreciate your kindness, interest and the information your provided. Because we do not have the opportunity to personally know each other, you would not know what experience, education or profession we have.
I never said, LSD was used. I never said, he had to purchase anything. I never said, he got it from a schoolmate. I never said, it was during school hours.
Sometimes urban legends are just that, legends, but sometimes there is a tiny amount of truth in them that happened to a tiny amount of people and it was best for the real truth to get lost in "The Legend".
As for his brother, no lie was necessary. As for his parents, no denial is necessary, they readily admit they were completely out of reach for their children due to a divorce. Each parent was working about 12 hours a day and the boys had a lot of spare time on their own at the ages of 11 and 14. It happens. Even though, we at that time, were actively trying to help each parent, it happens.
|
|
|
Post by mich64 on Nov 8, 2010 20:15:50 GMT
If printing/producing Medical Records of a patient were legal, you would have the proof of a hysterical urban myth. I appreciate that it is difficult for people to contemplate that out of legends, confessions, stories their was once an "ounce" of truth.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2010 20:38:11 GMT
I was reading #33 and it is not clear exactly what happened, since there seem to be no cases of authentically toxic sticker tattoos. And (with my great experience ) I do know that there are not many drugs powerful enough, other than LSD, to have an effect in such a small quantity. Can you give more details on the first drug and how it led to others? (But I certainly do no want to invade your family's privacy, so we can drop the subject if you prefer.) Amusingly enough, in my college days, I went straight for the various psychedelic chemicals first (totally non addictive) and it took me years to finally get around to trying things that one can smoke (since I have never smoked and it took a great effort!). Obviously, I did not find it very interesting compared to what I had experienced before. I was what one can call a businessman before I ever got around to testing (sniffing) the really bad stuff. I understood immediately how it could destroy a life and did not particularly want to destroy my own. Probably what helped me was that I was already "mature" (sort of), because I cannot deny that it is incredibly seductive and makes you forget any problem that you can possibly have. It is impossible not to love something that makes you forget all of your problems -- unless in the back of your mind you know that the problems still exist and that this is not the way to make them go away. If we return to the original subject, which was probably cannabis, my position is that repressing it causes more problems than legalizing it. And it does not lead to hard drugs any more than milk leads to beer and whiskey.
|
|
|
Post by fumobici on Nov 8, 2010 20:46:58 GMT
If printing/producing Medical Records of a patient were legal, you would have the proof of a hysterical urban myth. I appreciate that it is difficult for people to contemplate that out of legends, confessions, stories their was once an "ounce" of truth. There would necessarily be an actual police report, or other official public documentation on record never mind the inevitable citable press reports if such a thing ever actually verifiably occurred. Much of the existing problem is that for years drug policy rather than being based on sound rational analyses has been driven by hyperbole cynically calculated to elicit an emotional fear response, unattributed anecdotes such as this example with no objectively verifiable basis in fact, and downright falsehoods. Of course objective truth is much harder to manipulate ad hoc for political reasons and may actually lead in policy directions politicians for those political reasons would rather not go. Thus where we stand on drug policy today, with the some of most dangerous and addictive known drugs freely legally available and governments dependent upon their sale for revenue, while other drugs which through pure accident of history and lacking any sound scientific basis are arbitrarily treated as a completely separate class and criminalized.
|
|
|
Post by bixaorellana on Nov 8, 2010 21:24:03 GMT
Thank you for telling your painful stories, Cheery and Mich.
I don't know why Mich is being grilled. Whatever she knows now about how it all started, she learned well after the fact. Also, whether or not any substance on a sticker would be addictive, children's systems are more fragile, plus something went on that seduced a little boy into using drugs.
The crucial point is that many people fall more easily into substance abuse than others and the havoc they wreak with their own lives hurts the people who love them. My son had a very close friend who was experimenting with heroin. My son & other friends tried to talk him into leaving it alone. He scoffed at them and died at twenty. He was a beautiful, sweet, intelligent boy with loving parents -- parents who had to have been permanently wounded by how he lost his life.
Whether or not a drug is addictive, a huge problem remains with recreational drugs, including alcohol, being used in situations where people need to be paying attention -- on the job, driving, etc.
|
|
|
Post by mich64 on Nov 8, 2010 21:52:29 GMT
Hmmm, a police report, you would think so...but only for my nephew since he was not willing to say who gave it to him and my other nephew not knowing who this person was either. So, no one to arrest. Therefore, no court report either. A family services report, youth privileged. No reports to the media from the Hospital either, youth privilege, you must remember he was only 11. Only general warnings to the public from the Police Dept. to the media that drug dealers were reported to be lurking in school yards.
Youth Police Records and Social Service Records are sealed, the press would not get this information. If there had been a leak, that would have been against his youth privacy rights and an investigation would have had to take place to make someone accountable for his rights being violated.
As for the original substance, I do not want to say because I would not want to be responsible for this happening to anyone else. This is after all, the world wide web and is forever available. I will say that step number two was cigarettes containing not only tobacco that were rolled in gift wrap tissue paper with ninja turtles on them that his new friends would share with him, he thought he was so grown up, smoking cigarettes.
Recently, a friend of his died because she took cocaine that was cut with another product so the dealer could make the same money by selling a bag for the same price but only 50% of the usual product. Again, the press could only report that there was drug dealers in the area selling bad product that could cause death. Addicts do not care, they take the risk.
Sorry for wavering far of the topic. But as you might surmise, I am sensitive to any forms of addictive drug being used.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on May 17, 2016 21:04:51 GMT
To carry this over from the other topic:
Vancouver is the only place in Canada with safe injection sites. They have been threatened by previous governments, but they seem to be safe for the moment. I have never had need of one and never will (god willing), but I trust the people who say that the harm reduction (fewer deaths, overdoses, less disease transmission) far outweigh the negatives. Is it tacit acceptance of "immoral" behaviour? Perhaps, but we need to disconnect drug use from judgements of morality just like we no longer imprison unwed mothers, debtors and indigent people.
People take drugs because they are sick. Sometimes physically, but more often psychically and spiritually. I can guarantee you that the vast, vast majority of addicted people in the downtown eastside Vancouver have been abused, violated, rejected, imprisoned, institutionalized and otherwise thrown on the scrap heap. In the 1980s the government of BC closed the mental hospitals in favour of community "support" and modern psychotropics. We can all see what a huge success that has been. As well, Vancouver acts as a giant magnet for addicts because it is the gateway of the Asian drug trade, and you can live on the streets all year long without too much of a threat of freezing to death.
On the other hand, many people have addictive personalities. I have a friend who stopped drinking at the age of 15 because he feared addiction, but now he binges on marijuana, chocolate and online videos. Well OK, he's probably not the best example, but there are people who, from the first hit of something, cannot imagine life without it. It probably completes their brain chemistry in some way.
Cannabis products are available in dispensaries here with a doctor's prescription. There are hundreds of these dispensaries in Vancouver, at least a score within walking distance of my apartment. Of course, everyone complains that the quality sucks and the prices are too high, so you can be assured that the illegal trade still thrives. I could get some if I wanted for my migraines, but I hate the taste and prefer my extremely expensive triptans instead.
I've been to the new legal dispensaries in Washington state (accompanying a friend!). Your ID is checked at the door and the transactions are very businesslike and professional, although it is a little funny discussing what would be the best choice for a mellow high that will allow you to enjoy an afternoon of gardening with neither agitation or sleepiness, like you're talking about the best wine to go with fish. The big discussion in Capitol Hill is how the (white owned) dispensary has been situated on a corner where a lot of (black run) dope dealing used to go on, thus "gentrifying" the neighbourhood, as well as being sited near a church and a teen centre. But it's all legal.
I have a libertarian bent when it comes to illegal substances, although I partake in none in this country. I do take mild (8 mg) codeine tablets for my headaches, and I know there are very few places in the world that they exist OTC except Canada. The Americans recently sent a Canadian woman back over the border for having some in her luggage, so there's a good chance they'll get me one day. Tant pis.
|
|