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Post by Jazz on Sept 13, 2010 1:00:11 GMT
Pas de probleme, mich! Your comments are very much a part of this thread and not at all a distraction. We are discussing food in Paris and welcome your input. Often a thread veers slightly and that is just fine. Here, we are enjoying a discussion of Paris and not at all leaving the subject of the thread, although we all may ramble, now and then. Possibly, Bixa is saying, if you want to discuss generally, Foreign food in any foreign city of the world, then go to her thread.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 13, 2010 2:04:29 GMT
My apologies Bix, did not mean to distract the topic, I have enjoyed going through the links P.S. lagatta, I am drinking my steeped tea from my Brown Betty pot. Heavens, Mich ~~ certainly no need for you to apologize to me or to anyone. The thread was forked before you even responded to it, and my mentioning it had nothing to do with your comment. (I had a Brown Betty that got broken in an earthquake. )
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Post by Jazz on Sept 13, 2010 2:36:44 GMT
We do not need 'a fork'. If you want to 'fork' then go to the general thread about 'foreign food in all foreign cities'. Of course, there is no need of apology. This thread is a discussion of Food in Paris.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2010 5:33:24 GMT
Going back to the subject of eating for a modest amount of money (perhaps not quite the same as eating modestly), one trick of the trade in Paris is to go to the street market in the last 30 minutes. True, the most perfectly aesthetic food items might have already been snapped up, but the prices begin to change. The vendor who has been saying "2 euros for a kilo" for the last three hours in front of his tomatoes will, without pausing, suddenly start saying "2 euros for 2 kilos." And the same goes for most of the other easily perishable items -- lettuce, plums, strawberries, etc. Don't expect flash discounts on the sturdy items like onions or potatoes unless there are too few left to make it worthwhile to pack them up.
And of course when the market closes, many items are left free on the sidewalk for the destitute to collect. As long as I can pay, I would never take any of this stuff as other people need it more. They have about one hour to rummage around before the cleaners arrive.
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Post by mich64 on Sept 13, 2010 16:16:11 GMT
I am enjoying learning that the do's and the do nots are flexible.
Kerouac, it is heartening to read that items are left for those in need to collect. Here we have food banks for the needy but they rarely see produce donations, it would be so beneficial to anyones diet. However, it is more important that any type of food is provided.
In Toronto last year, we were visiting the St. Lawrence Market and was surprised at how regulars would tell us to wait till later in the day to purchase because of price reductions. I was so happy to be there and experience the variety I did not mind paying full price. But if I lived there, I would probably take advantage of the discounted prices later in the day. Most of the discounts were on the fish products.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2010 17:46:53 GMT
Some of the meat and fish is probably given away hand-to-hand at the end of the market, but obviously they can't leave such things out for anyone when they pack up: cats, dogs, vermin. However, the food banks distribute quite a bit of "just-expired" meat and cold cuts, donated by the supermarket chains.
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Post by lagatta on Sept 13, 2010 22:16:32 GMT
mich, nutritious food is ESSENTIAL for poor people if you don't want them developing chronic diseases that will cost us all dearly later on. In my neighbourhood, near the market, we have a fairly decent system for that. There is also a collective kitchen to help people (sorry to be sexist, really I'm not at all the ballbreaking feminist kind, but the most hapless are a certain type of single men of a certain age) who don't know or care how to prepare nutritious meals with limited means. You give some vegetables, carbs, cooking oil and scraps of protein to yer typical Haitian or Guatemalan lady and she can feed ten people, and it will be tasty.... And she's worked all day cleaning or some other shitty job.
kerouac, often just-expired stuff is fine - especially cheese!
A lot of the people who glean at the Jean-Talon market are rather elderly, and many are immigrants from a wide variety of countries. Hardcore street people don't have cooking facilities, and many lack culinary skills or even will. And some merchants deliberately leave out slighlty less aesthetic but perfectly edible and sanitary foodstuffs.
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Post by Jazz on Sept 14, 2010 7:04:06 GMT
Good to hear about the last minute market posssibities in Paris. We also have them here in Toronto, as Mich has pointed out, and Lagatta, in Montreal. A creative cooking mind will easily ‘seize the moment’. Chain restaurants in Paris...To be honest, the idea of eating in a chain restaurant ANYWHERE does not make my heart beat faster and, certainly not in Paris. But, my feelings have changed a little bit. Here is one site for chain restaurants in Paris and there are probably more, www.france-for-visitors.com/paris/restaurants/chain-restaurants.htmlThese sites are great for families and the traveler who simply needs a good and inexpensive break. I have only experienced two, Leon’s and Le Bistro Romaine. One time that I visited Paris, I was exhausted by the overseas trip, wandering around the day of arrival, finally and desperately, I needed to eat. I had rented an apartment on the rue de la Roquette and stumbled into le Bistro Romaine, 2 blocks from the Bastille and opposite my apartment. For 17Euro: tuna carpaccio, a fresh and generous tomato and basil salad, 2 glasses of wine and coffee. Delicious. But, my absolute favorite in the chain ‘division’ is Leon’s de Bruxelles, I usually had dinner at the one on Saint Germaine, close to le Musee Cluny and my studio on rue Maitre Albert. Delicious. www.leon-de-bruxelles.fr/Here is another chain that might not quite fit into budget, but it’s great, L’ Ecluse, www.lecluse-restaurant-paris.com/carte-des-mets.html#platsIt is essentially an excellent wine bar with good food. They take the time to discuss your choice of wine, even it is only a glass. The most beautiful location is at 15, quai des Grands Augustins, Paris 6e. You may choose to sit on the terrace and will be 50 feet from the Seine and the two islands, Ile de la Cite and Ile Saint Louis.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2010 7:26:32 GMT
I think it's somewhat unfortunate, but the Bistro Romain chain is going to be discontinued, because the clientele is declining. It was originally an offshoot of the Bistro de la Gare chain (the first establishment of which has now become the Montparnasse 1900 with its fantastic ceiling), and it turned out to be more successful than the first chain. So the Bistro de la Gare restaurants were converted to Bistro Romain or sold off. For the last decade, they have belonged to the Flo Brasserie group, which also owns the Hippopotamus chain. Hippopotamus is still expanding (I even saw one at Cairo airport last year), so it will probably take over some of the Bistro Romain locations, but certainly not all of them, particularly in Paris, where they are often side by side. Right now the main expansion that I see in chains are some of the "fast health food" chains which target busy office workers who can no longer sit down (or don't want) for a real meal at lunch. They have some interesting items, but I am not really a customer: CojeanExkiLina'sBert'sThere are at least a dozen other of these chains, but I just can't keep up with the names anymore.
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Post by lagatta on Sept 14, 2010 12:07:31 GMT
The only chain I've eaten at (except perhaps a sandwich at the airport or something like that) in Paris is Léon de Bruxelles, because its high turnover ensures perfectly fresh mussels.
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Post by Jazz on Sept 16, 2010 9:08:11 GMT
Thanks for the links, Kerouac. Few of us here are fans of chains, but they are certainly good for families. The Flo Brasserie Group is especially interesting. They now own two restaurants in Paris that I have been to, Julien’s and Brasserie Balzar. Balzar's is discussed in depth in Adam Gopnik’’s series of essays for the New York times, which in the end became an excellent book, Paris to the Moon. www.amazon.ca/Paris-Moon-Adam-Gopnik/dp/0375758232/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1284623522&sr=8-1-spell Gopnik devotes an entire essay to how Flo purchased Balzar’s and how the waiters and clientele fiercely opposed this... strikes and long drunken discussions… (Gopnik was one impassioned client) I arrived a few years after the ‘coup’, but, my meal was enjoyable and a good price. The brasserie is located near the Sorbonne. Well worth the meal and the walk in the immediate area. www.slowtrav.com/france/restaurants/menu_balzar.htm While I never ate at Julien’s, it is a beautiful restaurant with the original Belle époque interior. I arrived too early for Paris (about 6PM/1800). The waiters and owner were enjoying their dinner and told me to come back later, said in a friendly way. I wandered off and later found Le Cochon a l'Oreille, 15 rue Montmartre. (not in Montmartre, but in the 1st, in the heart of les Halles.) Some great interior photos here, www.hotels-paris-rive-gauche.com/blog/2008/10/30/cochon-oreille-restaurant-halles/ This was to be one of my most memorable dining experiences in Paris. Tiny, old, and the walls of the interior were decorated with beautiful, hand painted tiles, showing the 'past glory' of les Halles. It was a warm September night and I sat on the terrace and enjoyed dinner, an appetizer of chevre and fresh tomato on slices of baguette, an entrée of grilled shrimp, dessert was a mango soufflé. The young owner advised me about the wine (the best I had in Paris). I tried to order by the glass, but it was simply not his system. He poured a glass, then left the bottle on the table, saying that I would only be charged for what I drank. A young Australian couple sat next to me and we shared a wonderful evening. Good prices.
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Post by lola on Sept 16, 2010 14:15:18 GMT
This is great.
Will so much have to try Le Cochon á l'Orielle. Charging by amt wine drunk is charmingly un-germ-phobic-American.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2010 14:30:00 GMT
In the Flo group, I have been to Flo, Julien and Terminus Nord. The original Flo is the cosiest, but my favorite was Terminus Nord, which is a real, big, bustling brasserie right across from Gare du Nord. Flo and Julien are only about a block and a half apart.
Those places are over my normal restaurant budget, though. Nevertheless, they remain well within the moderate range for a small splurge. You can now find Flo all over France and throughout quite a bit of Europe, so it should be arriving in North America before long. (The business site for Flo says "average meal: 41€")
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Post by lola on Sept 16, 2010 14:56:00 GMT
At the risk of being revealed as a non-Big Shot, 41€ is pretty far into my current splurge zone.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2010 17:04:12 GMT
Let's just say that when you delve into the more modest wines and skip the dessert, it makes a big difference in the final price. I would not pay 41€ either, but I know plenty of people with the same revenue as I, and they think that is a normal price for a meal. Different priorities!
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Post by Jazz on Sept 18, 2010 2:58:43 GMT
I found some info about the cafe, le Foyer de la Madeleine, from the NYTimes, query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E00E1DD1131F934A35753C1A9619C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=allLUNCH IN A CHURCH
Get ready for an adventurous meal in the underground space of a church ...
Le Foyer de la Madeleine, Place de la Madeleine, Eighth Arrondissement; 33-1-4742-3984. Once you face the church, the entrance to the restaurant is on the right side of the building.
This place is known either by cash-poor students, old people from the neighborhood or devouts. For 8.50 euros ($12.07 at $1.42 to the euro), you get a three-course menu (starter, main course and cheese or dessert), with chicken legs and French fries rather than confit de canard. The food is served by volunteers (usually charming old ladies), under a vaulted cellar, in the peristyle of the Madeleine Church. You can also spend .60 euros more for a coffee. It is quirky, old-fashioned but such an experience.
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Post by cigalechanta on Sept 18, 2010 3:35:39 GMT
Agnes Varda has a scene in her film the Gleaners, showing the poor picking up the markets' left-overs
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Post by Jazz on Sept 18, 2010 6:37:51 GMT
You’re not alone, Lola, 40E is well into my ‘splurge’ range. The most expensive meal I ever had in Paris was 45E, at La Petite Chaise. It is the oldest restaurant in Paris, established in 1680 in the 7th arrondissement. www.alapetitechaise.fr/historique.htmThe restaurant is small, with the original hand painted frescoes on the walls. Three courses, with a glass of champagne to begin and red wine throughout the meal. Delicious food, and attentive and welcoming service. We all have our own ways of budgeting and mine was not that ‘conscious’. Many days were just naturally inexpensive…walking, visiting a museum, a trip to the flea markets of Vanves or Puces des Clignancourt…a lunch of a crepe from a street stand, or, some good food from a small food shop for a picnic…then, an evening preparing dinner at home. It all balances out. I would never visit Paris resolutely going to only the cheapest places. Part of the full experience of Paris is the pleasure of lovely food. This is subjective. There is frugal-atrocious and frugal-superb. There is expensive-mediocre and expensive-superb. The closest to a ‘rule’ that I followed was to try to go to a new place for each event…a coffee, breakfast, lunch, dinner, late night drink, a market, another fromagerie, boulangerie, traiteur etc. (many places in 4 months.) You soon find your special places. Food for lazy Parisians, some inspiration from Kerouac, anyportinastorm.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=discussion&thread=1675&page=1#86004
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Post by lagatta on Sept 18, 2010 9:00:49 GMT
Well, sometimes I've been in Paris without a budget to really eat out, (I was there doing research, attending a conference etc). Always wound up tasting lovely food anyway, if only things from markets. And usually somebody would invite me out, but never to anywhere that cost over 40 €. My big splurge is usually books, as there are editions hard to find over here.
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Post by lola on Sept 18, 2010 15:15:18 GMT
I like to eat really frugally, yoghurt on the run type, so be able to have something special. Especially in France!
My first time in Paris was only for a couple of days, and I dashed around so much looking at art and architecture that I forgot about the food aspect of it all. Finally when I went to a cafe I ordered Peche Melba of all things, because those words were on my French for Tourists casette and I liked the sound of them.
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Post by lagatta on Sept 18, 2010 16:21:59 GMT
I'm not a yoghurt on the run type (I HATE eating on the run) but you can find all kinds of nice foods to eat "in" or as a picnic in French shops and supermarkets that there are many other choices. Certainly always manage to have something special. Of course French foods here in the colonies are not exactly the same as in la Mère patrie, but I'm not the person most deprived of French foods in the world.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2010 18:00:39 GMT
Clearly, many visitors to Paris are on the run, but when you read their travel tales, it is obvious that a lot of them like it that way, because it gives them an excuse to eat tastier (or at least different) junk food from what they have at home -- crêpes, panini, doner kebabs, baguette sandwiches, croque-monsieurs, etc.
Actually, when I think about what I have read, a lot of these people eat better when they are on the run than when they decide to sit down in a restaurant. On the street, they can see what they are getting, but in restaurants they often order the wrong things -- either mistakenly getting offal or something else that they don't appreciate, or else ordering something that they think will be familiar, but the French presentation is completely different.
Those of us who don't have to worry about the linguistic challenge can laugh at this, but more and more of the visitors to Paris do not speak a word of French, and they often fall afoul of the wrong meals.
Food dictionaries can be of help, but most people don't want to bother (I wouldn't.), so as far as I'm concerned, the best solution is to be open to anything that might arrive on the table (no problem for me in Asia!). There are two conflicting forces at work here -- on the one hand, more and more people are travelling and being exposed to all sorts of exotic treats, but on the other hand, food is becoming more and more standardized so that nobody will be shocked. As the French have said for ages, eating should be part of the educational curriculum so that we can learn to understand and appreciate what people eat everywhere in the world. (No, we don't have to like everything -- just keep an open mind.)
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Post by lagatta on Sept 18, 2010 23:14:15 GMT
Even French-speakers can experience slight disappointments. Perhaps the only one I encountered in Paris was the French croque-monsieur. Here is is a very nice sandwich on a crusty baguette, with ham, cheese, perhaps some vegetables (onions, tomatoes etc) slipped under the grill and toasted, while the French version was disappointingly similar to the North American "grilled cheese", on shitty pain de mie.
This has nothing to do with language, but I never understood the Parisian manie for avocados with a mayonnaise sauce. Seemed like fat overkill. I am fond of both those good but fatty foods, just not together.
I agree about eating, but even more, about preparing at least basic nutritional food. I knew a guy who went out to eat at a local restaurant every evening, even when he was unemployed, because he didn't know how to cook the most basic things, like a hunk of meat, some potatoes and greens. Basic cooking and home repair should be mandatory for pupils of both sexes.
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Post by lola on Sept 19, 2010 12:19:40 GMT
Being able to sew one's own buttons on or repair a hem could save the price of a nice meal, too. If I think of it that way, I have a month's worth of Paris restaurant meals waiting for me.
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Post by Jazz on Sept 21, 2010 21:53:09 GMT
I suppose many visitors to Paris may be ‘on the run’, but I have never been one of them. Each pause is part of the pleasure and I love to sit and enjoy the break…a drink, a meal, the ambiance, and unexpected conversations. I don’t carry a glossary with me and most of the time it's very enjoyable. (well, a few disasters ). Secret Bars and restaurants in Paris, www.amazon.ca/Paris-Secret-Restaurants-Collectif-Collective/dp/2915807477/ref=sr_1_1?s=gateway&ie=UTF8&qid=1285101441&sr=8-1 Once again, another exceptional book by Jonglez Press. (re: Secret Paris by Jacques Garance, photos by Maud Ratton). This is also by Jacques Garance, photos by Stephanie Rivoal. This is part of our discussion because most of the places mentioned offer meals for 8-25Euro. They are also exceptional because of their ambiance, unique beauty and relative obscurity (at least for me)...I had never heard of most of them. These are just a few that I would like to visit, 1. Foyer Concorde, Place Maurice-Barres and 263 bis, rue St. Honore, Paris 01. A Polish restaurant in the crypt of the Notre-Dame-de l’Assomption church…located in the vaulted 17th century cellars. Lunch menus from 10-15E. 2. Club des Poetes, 30 rue de Bourgogne, Paris 07. **** …a walk outside of time…created in 1961 the Club des Poets has received many visits from many renowned poets such as Pablo Neruda, Octavio Paz and Ma Desheng. The food is decent and affordable. The lights go down and for two hours family members, regulars and new customers can take turns reciting a poem of their choice. 3. Les salons du Parc Monceau, 8 rue Alfred-de-Vigny, Paris 08. A bridge club, nothing indicates that it is public (but it is)…seven to eight discreet and private tables overlooking the park, the sound of birds, the trees…definitely of another age. (makes me think of Proust) 4. Om'zaki, 76 rue de la Procession, Paris 15. A Syro-Palestinian restaurant with a lovely inner courtyard…surrounded by walls painted in blue and white. Menus from 12.50E. If you must be in the 15th, this sounds like a good place to go. 5. Bar de la Petite Renaissance, 36 Boulevard d’Ornano, Paris 18. Built in 1893, this bar takes pride in a magnificent piece of ceramic entitled 'le roi boit‘ (the king drinks), as well as its friezes dating from the same period. It is run by Samia and her mother, originally from Algeria. ***be prepared, the majority of customers are masculine and this may be off putting for women on their own. (hmmm) 6. Studio des Islettes, 10 rue des Islettes, Paris 18. A small jazz club in the Goutte d’Or neighborhood. An ordinary building, ring a bell, pass through a small courtyard and you’re there. 7. Musee de la Vie Romantique, 16 rue Chaptal, Paris 09. I was here and thought it was lovely. You walk down a leafy passage to the house where Georges Sand and Frederic Chopin spent much time, visiting a friend who owned the house. The museum is small. The original greenhouse has been converted to a café , but the most beautiful is to eat in the garden. There is a 30 foot stone wall surrounding it, next to a school. ______________________________________________ This book is fascinating and readable. It discusses about 250 obscure bars and restaurants in Paris in general, then has smaller divisions of romantic, secret gardens and terraces, Art Nouveau, extraordinary views, great fireplaces etc…all good, but I was fascinated by 'Startling Toilets.' I was aware of the beautiful washrooms at the church of the Madeleine, but then I read this, Le Tresor: a goldfish in every flush!, 7 rue de Tresor, Paris 04. ... 'A highly successful special effect. More than one customer has no doubt been caught wondering dazedly whether the poor fish swimming in the transparent tank is going to die in the sewers of Paris if they pull the chain! In fact, only half the water empties and the fish remain perfectly safe in their glass home. ...
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Post by lagatta on Sept 21, 2010 23:45:32 GMT
Wonderful. I could never flush that toilet. Bar de la Petite Renaissance is not very far from K2 country, just west of the railway tracks and a bit of a walk. Hmmm indeed.
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Post by Jazz on Sept 23, 2010 13:30:53 GMT
Cool! Now you can have free sparkling water dispensed by a fountain in the Jardin de Reuilly, Paris 12, to have with your picnics and wandering around. This is the first in Paris, www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/21/paris-park-fizzy-water-tap... France's addiction to bottled sparkling water is up there with its penchant for bike racing, foie gras and Johnny Hallyday. Now, authorities in Paris are attempting to fight back against the national dependence by unveiling a public water fountain that gushes with chilled bubbles. La Pétillante – literally, she who sparkles – is the first fountain in France to inject carbon dioxide into tap water before cooling it and serving it up to passers-by. Inaugurated today in the Jardin de Reuilly in south-east Paris, it is expected to prove a user-friendly means of weaning the French off the bottle. "Our aim is to boost the image of Paris tap water," said Philippe Burguiere of Eau de Paris, the capital's public water supplier. "We want to show that we're proud of it, that it's totally safe." Today, locals from the 12th arrondissement queuing up to try the water greeted the fountain with enthusiasm. Speaking on television, one woman even paid La Pétillante the ultimate compliment. "I think it's pretty tasty," she said. "A bit like Perrier."
This article has a short video, www.postchronicle.com/news/strange/article_212324058.shtml Now this is a good savings for your eating and drinking budget!
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Post by Jazz on Sept 25, 2010 21:20:18 GMT
Another thought for eating well but modestly in Paris is taking a cooking course. These vary in price (extremely!) but are worth consideration and I would love to try at least one. Many are horribly expensive and lead you to the first rule of searching things of this nature in Paris and in France…If you google in English, you will be faced with all such courses (cooking, painting etc) directed to the North American Audience, ie: Most Expensive! Be sure to search though the first few pages, or, (the best), google in French.
I am most interested in a course for an afternoon or one meal and have read about several good places that are inexpensive. This would fit into my daily budget in an integrative way. With the course (say, lunch or dinner) you have many advantages in your daily budget. It would include a meal, an experience in a Parisian situation, a mini cooking lesson, being with others, and if you choose, having the entire experience in French. The courses are given in French or English by French people. It is often offered in their homes (an experience of living in Paris), if you have the ability to take it in French, (a language experience). You will be with a small group of people (a social event and you may meet someone that you are sympatico with). You will learn something about cooking AND you will have a meal. I have a few references and will add these.
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Post by Jazz on Sept 26, 2010 3:19:46 GMT
Well, I don't have a few references, I have only one. My fantasy of a cooking course in Paris is not cheap. There are many half days with visits to a market, or one meal courses but they are very expensive. Possibly worth the money(I doubt this) but they don’t belong in this thread. Only one does. All roads seem to lead to Atelier des Chefs, www.atelierdeschefs.fr/actual experiences, www.boston.com/lifestyle/food/articles/2008/11/26/a_french_twist_on_fast_food_for_lunch/www.csmonitor.com/2005/0330/p14s01-lifo.htmlwww.doitinparis.com/weekend-getaway/less-than-50-cooking-class-paris-3266I would definitely take this course the next time that I am in Paris. Another option would be to explore the cooking schools and the meals that the students offer to people. Why is it that all Parisian roads lead to Kerouac? Here is K’s post about one school on Fodor’s, Kerouac: Gastronomic lunch in Paris on the cheap...'Those who dream of eating a fancy gastronomic meal in Paris but don't think they can afford it might find this to be a good option. The restaurant school in the 6th arrondissement serves lunch every day for either 20 or 25 euros, depending on the menu of the day, with all of the fancy frou frou that a lot of people crave. The menu changes every day, but a number of different selections are available. It is extremely popular, so you must reserve at least a week in advance. And don't forget that it is a school -- so lunch is the only meal served (between noon and 14:30), it only operates Monday through Friday and is closed during school holidays or any other legal holiday during the year.'.... Ecole Grégoire-Ferrandi (Ecole supérieure de Cuisine Française) 28, rue Abbé Grégoire 75006 Paris Tél : 01.49.54.28.00
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Post by lagatta on Sept 26, 2010 19:07:56 GMT
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