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Post by bixaorellana on Apr 7, 2015 14:57:16 GMT
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Post by lagatta on Apr 7, 2015 23:38:25 GMT
That is wonderful, Bixa. Not everywhere is there such recognition of Indigenous languages, even in areas where such heritage is strong.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 21:16:56 GMT
Maybe a stupid question: did any of the local cultures have a written alphabet or did writing only appear with the colonists?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2015 21:52:22 GMT
My guess is that, like with the native cultures in N. America, modern linguists have invented alphabets and phonemes to convey the languages which were previously only spoken.
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Post by bixaorellana on Apr 9, 2015 17:41:53 GMT
LaGatta, archeological sites around here often include indigenous languages in the explanatory markers, along with English & Spanish. Here is a very complete & well illustrated explanation of mesoamerican writing: www.ancientscripts.com/ma_ws.html
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Post by lagatta on Apr 10, 2015 16:56:19 GMT
Thanks!
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Post by bixaorellana on Apr 25, 2015 22:48:32 GMT
English language exclamation enters written Spanish: ohmaigáSaw that on facebook a few minutes ago.
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Post by breeze on Apr 26, 2015 19:00:32 GMT
Ohmaigá! I like ohmaigá and now I know how to spell it.
One time I was ordering in-flight meals over the phone with a personable Delta rep and asked what her recommendation would be. She said she always got the seafu' so I asked for two seafood meals. But then she couldn't find that on the menu. She continued to tap away while wailing Ohmaigá, ohmaigá, no seafu! She kept this up quite a while, for my entertainment and her coworkers' too, I'm sure. She finally tracked it down, so we got our seafood meals on the plane.
It's one of the things I still say sometimes when we have a minor problem. Ohmaigá, ohmaigá, no seafu! comes in handy for all kinds of petty irritants.
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Post by bixaorellana on Apr 26, 2015 21:24:22 GMT
Oh, that's a great one, Breeze! She was probably writing "sifu". This should be easy for you ~ What is "dufry" in standard English? Hint:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2015 5:10:33 GMT
I dunno.
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Post by mickthecactus on Apr 28, 2015 10:37:57 GMT
Duty free.
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Post by bixaorellana on Apr 28, 2015 16:57:27 GMT
Dat's it!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 18:29:55 GMT
So close and yet so far...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 19:39:13 GMT
A lot of the québecois terms for the expressions are just like the French ones, once you have reverted to "standard" pronunciation.
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Post by fumobici on Jun 11, 2015 23:09:59 GMT
Are those spellings meant to be phonetic, which would make some sense, or do Quebecois actually spell like that? 'Ch' for 'je' OK; 'Chu' for 'je suis' WTF? I've been to Quebec and I've never seen stuff spelled that way.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2015 23:20:47 GMT
Phonetic.
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Post by fumobici on Jun 12, 2015 1:19:03 GMT
Thank you. And there's that darn recipe again
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 2:15:23 GMT
Whom do we blame for that stupid soup?
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Post by patricklondon on Jun 12, 2015 6:03:20 GMT
Are those spellings meant to be phonetic, which would make some sense, Yes Are those spellings meant to be phonetic, which would make some sense, or do Quebecois actually spell like that? 'Ch' for 'je' OK; 'Chu' for 'je suis' WTF? I've been to Quebec and I've never seen stuff spelled that way. No, it's a way of sending up the local accent and speech for speakers of standard metropolitan French. Looks like the sort of things people do in English as well. There's a minor industry in little books and postcards writing out local and regional accents in "comical" transliterations. I remember some Australian published (under the name Afferbeck Lauder) a book about "Strine": www.textfiles.com/humor/strine.txt. But likewise, when I lived in the Stoke-on-Trent for a time, there was something similar on sale about local dialect. Mind you, I was completely flummoxed more than once in Quebec City, which is very Francophone. Took me some time to work out when someone was talking to me about a credit card, I couldn't hear "crédit" at all, it was all much softer and semi-swallowed. My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
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Post by onlyMark on Jun 12, 2015 6:19:23 GMT
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Post by bjd on Jun 12, 2015 8:02:13 GMT
I just returned from a month in Quebec (the province, not the city). I can understand most people speaking French there, although to my amazement, our 3 and a half year-old granddaughter has picked up a Quebec accent in just 2 months in day care, whereas before she spoke standard metropolitan French like her parents.
I must say those transliterations in post 72 don't sound much like what I heard -- what struck me most were expressions like "t'es correct?" for "are you alright?", "tantôt" for "bientôt", and "espadrilles" for sneakers.
I think the thickness of the accent depends more on the speaker's social level and education. I heard neighbours working on their house and thought their way of speaking rather unpleasant, whereas at Montreal airport on Monday, there was a group of schoolkids aged about 10-11 going on a trip to France and their accents were really fairly "standard French".
My computer often goes back to page one of a thread and I re-read this one. Mich, I was wondering whether you notice a lot of progress in your language capabilities in the 5 years you have been on this forum?
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Post by fumobici on Jun 12, 2015 13:00:39 GMT
I was in an Irish pub in Rome some years back and trying to converse with a Yorkshireman, his wife and a couple of Spaniards while watching a football match. Now I don't speak much Spanish at all, but due to its similarities to Italian and a semester of Spanish classes along with some common Italian and English I was able to converse with the Spaniards reasonably well, but the Yorkshire guy I couldn't understand at *all*. Mind you, this is allegedly the same language I speak! His Yorkshire wife I had no trouble with, she mentioned even Londoners have trouble with her husband's thick accent.
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Post by mich64 on Jun 12, 2015 16:04:59 GMT
Hello bjd, I have thought about what you asked and there is no improvement in my ability to understand slang, jokes or sarcasm but I think what has improved is my frustration regarding it. I have accepted that if something is important enough to understand, I ask someone and to not focus on trying to understand the rest because I know that is just not possible for me and that is okay. Next month will be 9 years since the injury.
What this forum continues to do for me is that it has become a place for me to spend time interacting with people without having to speak or contribute to conversations where I am uncomfortable. There is no pressure here, I can relax knowing that I can enjoy interacting without scrutiny. The majority of members are aware that I have limitations. It is a wonderful place where I do learn many new things, see new places and enjoy the feeling of being involved in a community.
The sound of my voice, the accent, is still something I struggle with.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 17:32:53 GMT
I just returned from a month in Quebec (the province, not the city). I can understand most people speaking French there, although to my amazement, our 3 and a half year-old granddaughter has picked up a Quebec accent in just 2 months in day care, whereas before she spoke standard metropolitan French like her parents. I must say those transliterations in post 72 don't sound much like what I heard -- what struck me most were expressions like "t'es correct?" for "are you alright?", "tantôt" for "bientôt", and "espadrilles" for sneakers. I think the thickness of the accent depends more on the speaker's social level and education. I heard neighbours working on their house and thought their way of speaking rather unpleasant, whereas at Montreal airport on Monday, there was a group of schoolkids aged about 10-11 going on a trip to France and their accents were really fairly "standard French". Oh, those pronunciations you don't hear much in the urban cities, they're more full-on joual. I'm sure I'd never understand my relatives from the Townships if I could speak with them. I'd post some joual vids, but I'm on the bus and youtube is blocked.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 19:04:34 GMT
In all my trips to Québec, it was particularly interesting to watch television. Regional series were mostly understandable with a bit of local vocabulary words, most of which have reached French ears over the years.
More interesting were the local news programmes. The news presenters and reporters speak totally standard French, but when there is an interview of the man-in-the-street about the day's accident or robbery or lost child, often a lot of what is said is lost on French ears.
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Post by bjd on Jun 12, 2015 19:33:56 GMT
Well, I must say I wasn't in the depths of Quebec -- rather 40 km up the Ottawa River and across from Ottawa, so in fact everybody speaks both French and English, except for the Ottawa Anglophones who have cottages in the area. So it wasn't joual, just a fairly strong Quebec accent, with vocabulary.
There was an interesting run-in between the local newspaper and the Quebec language police. Since the area (called Pontiac) is bilingual, the local paper is too, with the same articles in both languages run side by side. The language police has ordered the paper to be published only in French, with a brief recap in English of the important stuff at the end of the paper. The publisher is going to defend his paper as a mirror of the local community, with a lot of support from all the letter writers who made their views known.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2015 20:00:57 GMT
When was this, bjd? I find it interesting because I didn't think the language rules were being applied so stringently these days. Surprising.
My maternal great grandparents were Irish immigrants to Pontiac. I've never been there.
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Post by patricklondon on Jun 12, 2015 20:05:12 GMT
patrick, was it this book in Stoke? It's the dialect I speak No,it was this (if that's the secondhand price I wish I'd kept mine now): Arfur Tow Crate in Staffy CherI think there are some differences between East and West Midlands. I was certainly struck that, even as late as the early 70s, I heard a kid saying things like "A' duz", "A' dursn't", which could have come straight out of Shakespeare. My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
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Post by onlyMark on Jun 12, 2015 20:49:14 GMT
There is a difference between east and west Mids I'm sure. In fact I know there is. Not seen that book before.
We still use thee and thou in proper east Mids dialect - "In North Nottinghamshire (where I'm from) the dialect is very similar to South Yorkshire, including occasional use of the pronoun thou amongst older people (that's me)." A lot of words come from Norse/Middle English.
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Post by bjd on Jun 13, 2015 8:43:34 GMT
When was this, bjd? I find it interesting because I didn't think the language rules were being applied so stringently these days. Surprising. My maternal great grandparents were Irish immigrants to Pontiac. I've never been there. This was 2 weeks ago, Lizzie. There are towns in Pontiac that are pretty exclusively English-speaking, like Shawville.
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