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Post by cheerypeabrain on Feb 7, 2013 18:40:22 GMT
York Minster don't want him
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Post by lugg on Feb 7, 2013 19:22:02 GMT
The more I read about this the more I want to understand more.
It is just such an intriguing tale; from the dedication of the passionate team who determined where to dig ( who would have thought a car park for Leicester Social Services? ) , the efforts to identify ancestors through the female line to determine DNA evidence, the forensic team who have illustrated how he might have looked and in some ways the re-examination of all we were taught in history classes and in reading Shakespeare.
Where do you think he should be re-interred Cheery ? I guess it would be a huge boost to Leicester if it took place there. However perhaps it should be Westminster where his wife is buried and of course many other monarchs ?
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Feb 7, 2013 19:22:18 GMT
I went along to the Guildhall this morning.... In the foyer but...... it was Press and invited guests only... I did speak to a member of the archaeology department from the University...the exhibition opens to the public tomorrow (I'm at work) but it will be running until at least July so I should be able to get along before then They suggested that I nipped over to the Cathedral instead...so I did.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Feb 7, 2013 19:24:28 GMT
here's what I went to see...
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Feb 7, 2013 19:48:04 GMT
I've posted pics of the outside of the Cathedral (St Martins) before but not the inside... St Martins was originally a parish church, it's located very near to the Guildhall and was used by the guilds and merchants for civic ceremonies and services. The church was originally built in the 12th century, rebuilt in the 13th and 15th century. Just over 100 years ago the Victorian architect, Raphael Brandon, restored and rebuilt the church..adding a 220 ft spire. St Martins was hallowed as the Cathedral of Leicester in 1927...there were other churches that were considered but St Martins was chosen probably because of it's links with the guilds, it's location (next door to the Guildhall) and due to the fact that it had always been used as the civic church. It's a very small Cathedral (there are only 2 smaller in the Country) A display of the copes designed by Judy Barry and Beryl Pattern detail the photographs I took inside the cathedral weren't very good...I was quite disappointed because there are some stunning windows and artwork...it's nothing like as grand as other city Cathedrals, but it has a quiet, friendly atmosphere....beautiful.
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Post by mossie on Feb 7, 2013 20:19:19 GMT
Thanks for trying Cheery. This is such an intriguing story and a murky part of history being opened up to us.
The detailed work on those copes is mind boggling, some expert needlepeople.
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Post by htmb on Feb 7, 2013 22:47:49 GMT
It's fascinating to read the reports in our local newspaper and then have access to your "on the scene" reporting!
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Post by lugg on Feb 8, 2013 7:17:55 GMT
We cross posted last night Cheery so missed your pictures until now. Thanks for posting and hope you do get chance to see the exhibition when it opens more widely. .
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Post by lola on Feb 8, 2013 19:54:09 GMT
Yes, fun, Cheery. He's such an easy guy to have an opinion about. I tend to prefer the Shakespeare version of brilliant and complete badness.
The reconstructed face was so similar to his portrait that I almost suspect them of just copying that. You can tell from the skull he had quite an underbite.
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 9, 2013 5:21:41 GMT
Oh, Cheery ~~ this is so exciting to get an inside look from you!
As for where Richard should rest: y'all found him so you should get to keep him.
How delightful that someone thought to give him flowers.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Feb 9, 2013 9:17:01 GMT
That arrangement was put there by the Cathedral flower arrangers...but there is a little area where visitors can leave flowers and there were several single white roses on it. There's lots on the local news about it all, interviews with historians and archaeologists etc...turns out the Tudors had a very tenuous claim to the throne and managed a pretty damning character assassination of Richard. Sir Thomas More who wrote the history was a child when the events took place and was quoting a guy who hated the York family and who had a big grudge against them. There's all sorts of stuff coming out and no doubt there will be books published claiming that he is an innocent pawn...but basically we'll probably never really know. T'was ever thus...the winners always write the history books! It is exciting in the city tho...and in a way he's loved here because he's part of our folklore so we feel like he belongs to us. If he went to Westminster he'd be stuck with them there Tudors wot done him in....altho I can understand the argument that he would be with his wife there. I dunno....there are kings buried outside the capital city...strangely enough this website already states that Richard is buried at Leicester Cathedral...which can only refer to the memorial stone. www.britannia.com/history/monarchs_burials.html
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Post by htmb on Feb 9, 2013 13:10:54 GMT
When I first saw the photo of the memorial stone that's what I had assumed, too.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Feb 10, 2013 15:07:23 GMT
Last night I started re-reading Josephine Tey's The Daughter of Time. Even more interesting now that I can easily put a face to the portrait described in the book. I have that....it's a beautifully researched book isn't it? www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-21380622I studied Shakespeare's Richard III at school when I was 15 and always thought that it was based on fact as it was written in the early 1590s...not realising that he based his histories on Thomas More and Polydore Vergil's work. It's a cracking play though....
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Feb 10, 2013 15:44:26 GMT
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 10, 2013 15:58:15 GMT
Maybe not the awe-inspiring soaring splendor associated with some cathedrals, Cheery, but very beautiful all the same. The detail and color on the ceilings and the scale of that side altar give it a welcoming intimacy, I think.
(& I don't know what you think is wrong with the quality of your pics!)
Love the bike, but it needs to be fixed so the dog can pedal, too. No free rides! ;D
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Feb 10, 2013 16:09:39 GMT
thank you sweetie.....
I haven't got a religious bone in my body but I do love historical buildings...and there was such a nice atmosphere in there. My sister nearly had a fit when I lit a candle for my Mother! (Mum was a staunch atheist)...but it just felt like a nice thing to do....
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Post by bjd on Feb 10, 2013 16:58:18 GMT
At the end of The Daughter of Time, the young man researching Richard III gets upset because other writers in previous centuries had already claimed that Richard was not guilty of murdering the young princes.
When I finished the book, I had a look at an Oxford History of England (1984) and -- the author claims that Richard III probably killed his nephews and was a horrible man. Since he was king for only 2 years, he didn't give any other information about him.
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Post by mossie on Feb 10, 2013 18:50:06 GMT
Thanks for the in-cathedra pics Cheery. That bishops chair looks a mighty uncomfortable thing to lean back in.
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Post by htmb on Feb 10, 2013 21:46:05 GMT
Thanks for the in-cathedra pics Cheery. That bishops chair looks a mighty uncomfortable thing to lean back in. It's my thought that bishops chairs should always be a bit uncomfortable, Mossie.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2013 8:31:38 GMT
I have never seen a comfortable looking bishop.
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Post by lola on Feb 11, 2013 17:37:11 GMT
Maybe you could parcel RIII out in pieces, as sometimes done with saints. A finger here, a vertebra there.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Mar 24, 2013 20:57:30 GMT
The local businesses are all very enthusiastic about Richard... good grief....
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 25, 2013 5:29:23 GMT
Those shades look really natural on him ~~ cool!
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Post by cheerypeabrain on May 9, 2013 18:05:17 GMT
At last....DiL and I went to the Richard III exhibition....it's just a small one in an annexe at the Guildhall. There were a couple of school parties there as well as lots of other visitors. Basically it consists of large boards with the information on, some 'interactive' screens and a few artefacts in cases. Some of the boards... For years it was claimed that this artefact came from the very bed at The Blue Boar Inn where Richard spent the night before the battle of Bosworth. It has since been found to have come from the 17th century. Stonework and roof tiles from the Greyfriars Monastery and some decorated floor tiles Some pottery cups. a comb and a dog-shaped waterspout found locally more mediaevil finds...including a Richard III coin...a Groat. more to follow....
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Post by bjd on May 9, 2013 18:22:57 GMT
Thanks for this, Cheery. Poor Richard seems to have disappeared from the news lately.
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Post by bixaorellana on May 9, 2013 19:29:52 GMT
What a great exhibition -- eager to see more!
Say what you will about Richard, the groat is very pretty.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2013 20:51:35 GMT
That comb speaks volumes about the condition of people's hair back then.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on May 10, 2013 16:05:20 GMT
more.... a little alabaster relief, it's of the same period and local, but I'm not sure about it's history or where it comes from. The crowds got in the way.. artefacts from the Monastery.. This is the closest I could get to the skull (it's a copy) and this is a large interactive screen...couldn't get near it either there were a few weapons but it was very dark.... As we hadn't been around the Guildhall for a very long time we decided to have a look around there as well.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on May 10, 2013 16:20:13 GMT
Leicester Guildhall.... When I was a little girl it's a place I visited with my sisters and brother a lot....it's very atmospheric. In the inner courtyard is this little bronze statue of Ethelfreda, daughter of Alfred the Great and a leader of Mercia. Ethelfreda defended Leicester from the Danes. detail....the statue is early 20th century. a rain water butt the clock..it has lovely chimes and has recently been restored. the Great Hall is this owt to do with Freemasons? I wouldn't know but will look into it... view out of one of the staircase windows... the library this bible is kept open at all times on a desk in the library...legend has it that if the bible isn't left out then the ghosts that haunt the building go fetch it.... In a downstairs meeting room these plaques were interesting...a Masonic link maybe? ooer...
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Post by cheerypeabrain on May 10, 2013 16:32:29 GMT
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