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Post by Deleted on Sept 16, 2011 18:36:34 GMT
I think this is a lovely advert for the French language. I received it from a Brazilian in love with French and who is studying to become a teacher (although he also speaks perfect Spanish and is now learning English).
I was wondering if there are other such ads promoting the languages of the world. I would love to see them.
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Post by rikita on Sept 17, 2011 7:05:13 GMT
um... just imagine what an advert for german would look like... or rather, not...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 17, 2011 10:19:45 GMT
It would be heavy on its utility in culture, medicine and science but unfortunately would not have many bragging rights for having spread around the world.
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Post by tod2 on Sept 19, 2011 10:17:52 GMT
It is a lovely ad Kerouac and I am one of the millions that wish to goodness I could master the French language. Heaven knows I've tried with all kinds of tapes, videos, and books. I get all enthusiastic and then when when it becomes incomprehensible to me I give up! Lately I've taken to watching French TV5 but since I only catch a word here and there, have decided that's not an option. What really frightens me is trying to say something in French and receiving a very fast reply - then looking totally out of my depth  |
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Post by ninchursanga on Sept 29, 2011 1:35:29 GMT
Unfortunately German is a difficult language to promote, it's usually associated with the Nazis or men dressed in Lederhosen who drink large quantities of beer.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 29, 2011 2:07:05 GMT
 I've always wanted to be able to speak German, not that I've ever done anything about it. It's my understanding that German is capable of much more subtle shadings of nuance than English, & English is pretty damn good at those shadings.
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Post by fumobici on Sept 29, 2011 3:33:46 GMT
Try the Michel Thomas German course, it can have you using basic German within a couple or three weeks if you buckle down and give it a chance. I have a number of German friends here and I surprised them with how much I picked up from it. You obviously won't be anything near fluent, but you'll be able to say and understand a lot of basic vocabulary and be understood. It's probably around the equivalent of two years of typical school German.
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Post by patricklondon on Sept 29, 2011 7:53:47 GMT
That's the problem with language learning: even if you reach a certain level of competence so that the plain meaning is clear, you become aware that there are levels of sub-text and tone that just aren't ingrained, as they are for a native speaker. It's like climbing endless foothills, admiring the view and congratulating yourself and then looking the other way and seeing more heights above: and there just isn't time in the day to keep up with more than one culture, especially nowadays with so much communication all around us.
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Post by ninchursanga on Sept 29, 2011 15:08:29 GMT
Well said PatrickLondon. That's exactly how I feel about improving my English, there seems to be no end to it.
English does a lot with vocabulary and to me it seems that in order to sound half-way educated you should have a big vocabulary.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2011 16:39:35 GMT
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 29, 2011 17:43:15 GMT
Thanks, Fumobici. Hearing about the kind of results you got from the course would make me stick to it. The idea of courses that could prepare you fairly quickly for a trip to a foreign country is exciting. ... there are levels of sub-text and tone that just aren't ingrained, as they are for a native speaker. ... there just isn't time in the day to keep up with more than one culture, especially nowadays with so much communication all around us. English does a lot with vocabulary and to me it seems that in order to sound half-way educated you should have a big vocabulary. Well, yes, but ........ I think it takes an enormously focused person to keep up with a culture outside of where they live. That, and probably an above-average facility with languages. But when you're living within a foreign culture, a certain amount of vocabulary, folk usage, etc. accrues to you. As to what Ninchursanga said, most people can understand that your language skills need time to catch up to those of native speakers and that you're to be admired for whatever skill you've already reached. If they don't understand that, they're not people you need to care about impressing. I'm saying that partly prompted by Nin's comment in another thread, about people not understanding certainly incorrectly inflected words, even though the meaning should be obvious from the context. When I lived in the States, I saw some people react blankly to anyone speaking with any kind of foreign accent.. It's also happened to me and others I know here. The ones who do that are instantly closing off receptiveness: "it's different -- I reject it!". But intelligent people, regardless of their level of formal education, will immediately adjust themselves to the fact that you don't speak exactly the way they do and will just get into the groove of mutual communication. |
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Post by bjd on Sept 29, 2011 18:09:55 GMT
Another language lesson
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Post by rikita on Sept 30, 2011 17:18:06 GMT
patrick - when you say there isn't enough time to keep up with more than one culture, do you mean you can only keep up with your native one, or your native and a foreign one? anyway, there are a lot of "multicultural" people who can keep up with more than one i think... and even if they don't know "everything" of a certain culture or language (like, i know native speakers of german who have difficulties with german writing and specific fields of vocabulary because they went to school in a different country) i don't think that means you aren't keeping up... even monolingual people who only livei n one culture usually don't know all aspects of it...
as for learning german - you could also do a german course i helped create, bixa (well as soon as it is ready, which is soon though)... i could pm you the details...
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Post by onlymark on Oct 1, 2011 2:07:21 GMT
As regards 'loving the language' as in the title, then to me a big part of that is also the sound it makes. So German is out then I'm afraid. It's a language I know enough of to get by but the sound of it is far from pleasant to my ears.
Give me a Welsh woman though and I go weak at the knees.
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Post by bjd on Oct 1, 2011 9:17:07 GMT
I didn't much appreciate the sound of German until I started learning it. Then I discovered that it was a really interesting, nuanced language whose "sound" depended on who is speaking.
As for languages that sound ugly to my ears: Arabic, Hebrew and Mandarin Chinese.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2011 10:33:35 GMT
Oh, I have always thought that Cantonese sounds much worse than Mandarin. Whenever I go to Hong Kong, it hurts my ears. I would agree that Hebrew is the ugliest sounding language to me. As for Arabic, the accents are so variable that I woudn't lump them all together. When I skim through all of the Arabic channels on cable, some of them sound quite nice.
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Post by bjd on Oct 1, 2011 11:20:16 GMT
You are probably right about Arabic -- I hadn't thought about the various accents in the different countries.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 1, 2011 11:22:45 GMT
Nevertheless, both Hebrew and Arabic make some of those rasping sounds that annoy many of us.
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Post by patricklondon on Oct 2, 2011 17:20:11 GMT
I was thinking more that one doesn't impress oneself, and that becomes depressing!
If you learn language, as I did, through literature and a basic outline of history, you soon become aware that you have little or no idea what the newest things are that "every educated" person should know, as you do in your own culture. So for me, "modern" French literature stopped with Sartre and Camus, "modern" German with Grass and Böll. And the less you know about what's going on, the less you can keep up with new novels and the like that you do read, because of the breadth of contemporary reference.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2011 17:41:29 GMT
I have always said that just about any "modern" language class is about 30 years out of date.
And unfortunately, the few attempts at teaching contemporary items are nearly always off base, because the teachers tend to say about classic formulations "people don't talk that way anymore" -- and that is just as incorrect as refusing to accept new expressions or slang. If it all possible, it is important to learn both -- but first the CLASSIC form of the language.
Once you have mastered the basics, it is exhilirating to plunge into the unknown -- such as when I read novels written in French "suburban speak".
It is actually much easier to see films full of modern speech, but the subtitles are usually either in classic English or in inappropriate and outdated slang.
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Post by rikita on Oct 2, 2011 21:16:07 GMT
oh, you just shouldn't go by what every educated person "should" know... you know what you'd like to know - and i think you can do that with more than one culture... and you could do it with none... i like having mixed input from different places anyway. there are loads of german books "everyone" knows that i didn't read and don't feel i lost anything for not reading them. of course there are others i wish i'd have the time to read. but i don't really try to go by country there...
and as i said, there are lots of people who grew up in some kind of multi-cultural way and are in some way keeping up with both sides throughout their lifes. it might not be "complete" - but it never is, anyway, even if it is just concentrated on one culture. there is so much going on everywhere, you can never fill out more than one little niche in a way anyway...
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Post by rikita on Oct 2, 2011 21:17:56 GMT
classic form might be a wrong term? wouldn't it be "standard" form, rather? classic form to me seems to imply whatever period is considered the "classic" period of literature in one language...
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Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2011 21:30:24 GMT
The borderline between the meaning of classic and standard is one of those nuance grey zones in my book. My own meaning would be that "classic" is uncontestably correct (in the dictionary and in the grammar books) whereas "standard" can still contain some formulations that are not yet totally approved although used by the majority. Things like "alright".
I continue to defend a strict concept of grammar and spelling, but I am open to changes. On the LP language branch, I pointed out the other day that the time has perhaps come for "alright" to be accepted, but I will continue to write "all right" until the dictionary is changed.
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Post by onlymark on Oct 3, 2011 4:11:01 GMT
Ok, alright then.
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Post by hwinpp on Oct 3, 2011 7:12:15 GMT
I like the sound of Arabic in all it's accents (the ones I've heard, North African and Iraqi).
Vietnamese grates on my ears, much like Cantonese (both have 8 or 9 tones and are quite close).
Korean doesn't sound bad but it's as if they're whining and bitching and complaining all the time.
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Post by bjd on Oct 3, 2011 8:05:16 GMT
I like the sound of Turkish, although I only know one word.
And I admit I hadn't wanted to learn Spanish for years because I didn't like the sound of it, then went to see Buena Vista Social Club and discovered a much softer-sounding language than I had heard in Spain.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Oct 3, 2011 9:30:39 GMT
There's a series on BBC 2 atm about language Planet Word is written and presented by Stephen Fry...last night he was talking about dialects and the way that different languages evolve, speaking about the committee that meets in France to ensure that the French language 'stays French' and isn't inundated with too many foreign words...also briefly talking about French and Spanish languages like Occitan (?) and Basque.. www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b015qqkl/Frys_Planet_Word_Identity/ |
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Post by lola on Oct 3, 2011 21:34:35 GMT
S. Fry in an interesting character. I'd like to see that.
I read an article the other day where something is described as "nu plus ultra", and then the author parenthetically wonders whether any French person uses that phrase. My guess would be: rarely.
I've become reconciled, more or less, to the idea that no one talks like Bertram Wooster anymore.
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Post by hwinpp on Oct 4, 2011 5:26:32 GMT
I like the sound of Turkish, although I only know one word. ... LOL! I know two! Teshekur and gule- gule (please read the 'u's as u with umlaut  Come to think of it, I don't even know how to count to three...  |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2011 5:45:22 GMT
Surely you also know kebap.
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I've always wanted to be able to speak German, not that I've ever done anything about it. It's my understanding that German is capable of much more subtle shadings of nuance than English, & English is pretty damn good at those shadings.
