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Post by rikita on Mar 5, 2009 22:38:39 GMT
actually though in my class they didn't necessarily let the athletic kids chose. some teachers let us take turns, each got to pick a team once. though in most cases, you'd pick the most athletic kid available first, and from then on that kid would tell you who to pick next.
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Post by gyro on Mar 6, 2009 5:47:48 GMT
Rikita, yeah, I was not amazingly proficient at sports at school, and was often one of of the last to be picked. The only way it really affected me was to make me realise I wasn't being picked because I wasn't that good. Which I knew anyway...
" i don't think that team sports should be forbidden. i just think they shouldn't be forced upon kids either"
But then this could be applied to team work (which there is a FAR greater emphasis on these days) in all other subjects, ie. Geography, History, Maths etc. etc. It would appear in your case - and I'm not having a go, and was not directing my 'psychological crutch' comment at you - that 'not fitting in' was a whole different issue that may well have happened anyway regardless of team selection etc. etc.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2009 5:56:03 GMT
On a school class project like 'group A will make a report on Germany' and 'group B will make a report on Italy' I don't think that teachers would ever let the kids pick the 'teams'. They make sure that an equal number of 'stupid' kids get placed in each group and no one is picked last.
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Post by gyro on Mar 6, 2009 6:40:15 GMT
Indeed. But I'm not referring to JUST the team picking process.
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Post by rikita on Mar 6, 2009 7:56:09 GMT
well the difference between team sports and other team activities is, that even though the grades in those other activities might be more important, and even though you might end up having to work so much more if the other kids in your group are all lazy - kids interested in sports still seem to put all their heart into the team sport, while not into the geography report. so if because of you your geography report isn't as good as it should be, the others might be a bit annoyed, but not more - while if because of you, your sports team looses, and you are a bit of an outcast anyway, it will lower your status yet more, you will have to live with many annoyed remarks etc. etc.
the other thing is, that even if you aren't the brightest, you can usually do your part in the geography report, if you want to, by putting some work in - if you are unable to catch a ball, you won't catch the ball (apart from that even those few times when i thought i might manage, i never got the chance, because knowing i suck, the others kept running to my spot in volleyball, so i won't drop the ball - the times i actually made an effort, i usually got yelled at for being in their way)...
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Post by gyro on Mar 6, 2009 9:28:26 GMT
Whilst I appreciate your comments, to me though, the principal remains the same.
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Post by tillystar on Mar 6, 2009 10:57:04 GMT
I disliked team games at school as I liked other sports better but I don't think they should be banned, although yes teachers should try to ensure a little fairness in the picking process.
What I dislike is the status given to people involved in team sports at University and in graduate jobs. When I was doing graduate recruitment a big tick went to applications from students involved in a lot of team sports. Supposedly a sign of a team player, but it was really more of a snobbery thing. Rugby and rowing - ah must be one of the boys.
The strong team player idea was not often borne out from my experience in the assessment centres, they often failed miserably the team exercise aspect as they were big mouthed and arrogant, took over and bossed everyone around. Not always of course but it was very common.
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Post by gyro on Mar 6, 2009 11:07:57 GMT
Yeah, that's why sports isn't my strong point, playing-wise. I don't have an, erm, big mouth ....
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Post by Kimby on Mar 6, 2009 17:00:52 GMT
On a school class project like 'group A will make a report on Germany' and 'group B will make a report on Italy' I don't think that teachers would ever let the kids pick the 'teams'. They make sure that an equal number of 'stupid' kids get placed in each group and no one is picked last. well the difference between team sports and other team activities is, that even though the grades in those other activities might be more important, and even though you might end up having to work so much more if the other kids in your group are all lazy - kids interested in sports still seem to put all their heart into the team sport, while not into the geography report. so if because of you your geography report isn't as good as it should be, the others might be a bit annoyed, but not more - while if because of you, your sports team looses, and you are a bit of an outcast anyway, it will lower your status yet more, you will have to live with many annoyed remarks etc. etc. I hated team reports even more than team sports!As a good student, I felt the others on the team were riding on my desire to make a good report, singlehandedly if necessary, as I wasn't going to let the losers on my team pull MY grade down. Grades were more important than sports wins or losses in my mind. And PE grades counted far less than academic grades. And it's not whether you win or lose, its how you play the game matters in sports, but doesn't matter too much if your GPA (grade point average) is pulled down by collaborations with other less studious types. (This reply puts me squarely in the geek camp, I realize.)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2009 17:56:30 GMT
I feel your pain about those reports, Kimby.
Anyway, what seems clear about physical education classes is that the whole organization and supervision of such things needs to be rethought. And since, unfortunately, the P.E. teachers are often those who do not have the brightest lightbulbs in the intellectual world, some new training may be required.
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Post by gyro on Mar 6, 2009 20:44:24 GMT
Well, I don't feel any guilt about my seemingly uncaring thoughts expressed in the OP now. Just returned from a performance in a local theatre of my daughters Drama club, and the audience attendance was poor to say the least. Something close to HALF the parents of the kids participating simply dropped them off at the door to the theatre and didn't come in to watch, the wankers.
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Post by rikita on Mar 6, 2009 20:46:16 GMT
well i agree with what you say kimby in the sense of that i also found other grades more important, and in general grades more important than winning or losing - what i meant, though, is that at least in my class, most kids seemed to feel different, and that being the "guilty" one for losing a game always had consequences (in the sense of that afterwards no one wanted to speak to you)...
apart from that i never understood why we had to drop either music or arts, both of which i liked, after tenth grade, while we had to take PE up to thirteenth grade with no chance to drop it.
as for PE teachers not always being bright - in our school system that isn't necessarily the case, a PE teacher has to have studied just as any other teacher, and no one is just a PE teacher, they all teach two subjects. The most common combination seems to be PE and geography, but I also had PE teachers that also taught german, or math... the problem to me seems more, that most PE teachers happen to be good at sports - and thus tend to have little understanding for those that aren't. (Obviously one could argue that this is probably the case for teachers of other subjects too. then again, one math teacher i quite liked once told us her reason for becoming a math teacher was that she hated math in school, and decided to prove that it was her teachers fault and that it could be done better)...
but yeah i agree that the organization of things should be rethought...
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Post by hwinpp on Mar 19, 2009 7:17:21 GMT
I was usually pretty good at sports but I hated most of my PE teachers. True dickheads, full of themselves. I wouldn't greet them if we met in on the street!
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Post by rikita on Mar 19, 2009 9:31:35 GMT
i had a chance recently to realize that i still don't like team sports - even if it is just for fun... during a climbing course, as a warming up exercise, we were supposed to form two teams and kick a small ball around with our shoes (which we were holding in our hands)... it took me quite a while to stop just kind of standing there and feeling out of place. i am just not good at team sports. maybe i am not much of a team person in general... the only team activity i never had a problem with was choir...
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Post by Kimby on Mar 20, 2009 17:45:25 GMT
me too, rikita. I joined an adult coed "just for fun" volleyball league some years back. One of my teammates didn't get the concept, though, and made heroic lunges into my territory to be sure "we" made the point. When I started pulling back to avoid collisions with this competitor on my own team he had the gall to say "you're making yourself dispensible!"
Haven't done any team sports in the years since.
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