New Jewish areas of Paris (by kerouac2)

[Deleted]

In spite of the title of this thread, there is nothing extremely "new" about the few photos I am going to show. It is just that all of the guidebooks talk about the historic Jewish areas of Paris -- rue des Rosiers, the garment district, etc. These are indeed important and historic areas, but populations move along, and these places are not at all what I think about when "Jewish areas" are mentioned.

Naturally, just about every ethnic or religious group can be found absolutely anywhere in Paris, but there are certain concentrations in a few places that make certain communities more visible. In Paris, the Jewish concentration of the postwar years is in great part in the 19th arrondissement -- these are mostly Jews that have come from North Africa, but also from Russia as well as well as the Israeli diaspora, which is often returning to the original countries of origin.

Rue Petit is perhaps the most Jewish street in the city.







The shop windows always intrigue me.

[Deleted]

Many kosher restaurants combine pizza with sushi. I have no Idea why.









Local travel agencies have a one track mind.



This synagogue used to be a supermarket.



Meanwhile, existing supermarket chains promise kosher products.



On nearby avenue Corentin Cariou, there was a semi-clandestine improvised market where people sold a few items.

I feel that I need to investigate this subject a bit more, because it fascinates me, but it is quite difficult to discreetly photograph the locals, who probably fear the motives of strangers and who think it is safer to live unobserved, since so many of them have had problems of acceptance in their countries of origin.

[lagatta]

Perhaps you could dress up as a Loubavitcher (the ultra-orthodox guys in the black hats, who don't have the sidecurls some other Haredi Jews sport)?

I remember some Loubavitcher youths sidling up to me and asking me if I was Jewish... A bit unsettling. They are intent on bringing non-observant or too casually-observant Jews back into the fold.

I'm fairly familiar with that area. It is the part of the 19th close to La Villette, non? I remember a (not fully kosher) supermarket with a very large kosher section. A friend of mine, who happens to be non-observant Jewish, found a social housing flat (something called a "logement intermédiaire" that is a bit pricier than HLMs, but not as expensive as private housing) on rue Manin between les Buttes-Chaumont and La Villette in that area.

Of course there are other Jewish concentrations, even in other parts of the 19th, and wealthier ones in more westerly areas of the city. Not to mentions suburbs such as Sarcelles...

[bixaorellana]

I really love when you show all this regular big-city stuff, Kerouac. It's fascinating to see non-glamorous Paris just going about its business.

Will Rue Petit probably remain a Jewish enclave, or do these sorts of neighborhoods migrate upward, leaving their small beginnings to a new population and clientele?

I puzzled about the sushi / pizza pairing until remembering what I read recently about the early years of dairy restaurants in New York. That is, that fish could be served on the same premises as milk without breaking kosher rules. (anyone -- feel free to correct me on this!)
I'm assuming you can't get pizza with cheese & pepperoni at those places.

I love the apples & pomegranate & dates(?) in the bookstore window. The photo of the man's back at the end is wonderful.

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2012 3:03:40 GMT bixaorellana said:

Will Rue Petit probably remain a Jewish enclave, or do these sorts of neighborhoods migrate upward, leaving their small beginnings to a new population and clientele?

Yes, each community dissolves into the city after its first concentration for convenience -- this took a hundred years in the old days, but now probably it is a matter of 30 or 40 years since everything goes faster.

On a similar note, I have noticed recently in the Turkish part of the Faubourg Saint Denis that "French Paris" is beginning to win back some of the places of business -- either because the local Turks have been assimilated and are doing "French" things, or just the community is beginning to dissolve into the fabric of the city and are leaving behind their little nugget of Istanbul as they indeed migrate upwards.

[tod2]

This is terrific Kerouac! - and a surprise that there is a large Jewish community somewhere else other than the Marais. Maybe now I can have that falafel or shawarma without standing in a long line of tourists ;D What I will have my eye open for is somewhere that offers a mean cheese blintz! It years since I got stuck into a warm sugary crepe that oozes sweet cream cheese - and maybe sometimes a blob of strawberry jam or cinnamon on top

I have two restaurants (non - Jewish) on my list in Ave Corentin Cariou - One is Au Cochon de Lait which serves a specialty of the house, l'Onglet Vilette. Next door is Dock's which might be good for a glass of wine and some people watching.
Directly opposite is a humongous long very modern building on stilts which ends in a sharp point on the corner.
Is this just a block of apartments?

[Deleted]

The pointy building is half hotel, half holiday apartments.

[tod2]

Interesting! Thanks.

[bjd]

One of my favourite "missed photographs" was an Orthodox Jew dressed on black, hat and all, zipping along on a little scooter (the kind for little kids) on Blvd Voltaire in the 11th.

[mickthecactus]

Jan 4, 2012 3:03:40 GMT bixaorellana said:

I really love when you show all this regular big-city stuff, Kerouac. It's fascinating to see non-glamorous Paris just going about its business.

Will Rue Petit probably remain a Jewish enclave, or do these sorts of neighborhoods migrate upward, leaving their small beginnings to a new population and clientele?

I puzzled about the sushi / pizza pairing until remembering what I read recently about the early years of dairy restaurants in New York. That is, that fish could be served on the same premises as milk without breaking kosher rules. (anyone -- feel free to correct me on this!)
I'm assuming you can't get pizza with cheese & pepperoni at those places.

I love the apples & pomegranate & dates(?) in the bookstore window. The photo of the man's back at the end is wonderful.

My Jewish friend tells me that if it has scales and gills it's OK but if it's shellfish, prawns, crabs etc. it's a no no.

[lagatta]

Yes, there are some fish (not shellfish etc) that are not considered kosher.

Those are all dairy pizza places - no pepperoni - they exist here in Montréal as well. Halal doesn't have that restriction on mixing meat and dairy, so halal pizzas can have pepperoni, but obviously not made of pork.

I know quite a few Jewish people in Paris, but the overwhelming majority are utterly secular - true Frenchpeople. Some do shop in neighbourhoods such as this from time to time, for "culturally significant" foods etc (what these are depend on whether they are of Ashkenazi or Sephardi origin).

[tallyhotravel]

Jan 4, 2012 8:34:12 GMT tod2 said:

a surprise that there is a large Jewish community somewhere else other than the Marais. Maybe now I can have that falafel or shawarma without standing in a long line of tourists

Me too! I have given up going to the Marais. Tired of fighting the mobs of obvious first time tourists walking around like deer in the headlights - take a few steps and freeze causing you to run over them and starting a people jam.

Jan 4, 2012 8:34:12 GMT tod2 said:

What I will have my eye open for is somewhere that offers a mean cheese blintz! It years since I got stuck into a warm sugary crepe that oozes sweet cream cheese

I haven't seen a cheese blintz on a menu in I don't know when. I wonder if they would taste as good to me now as they did when I was young. "Sweet" memories nonetheless.

[Deleted]

I saw that some of the snack places offered "blinis" but I did not investigate.

[bjd]

I just checked to see what a "cheese blintz" is. These are simply crepes with sweetened cream cheese inside. My mother used to make them with raisins and an egg yolk mixed into the cheese. I believe they also exist in Hungarian cooking:

From wiki:
The name of the dish has followed a track of borrowing across several languages of central and south-eastern Europe. The Austrian-German term Palatschinke is borrowed from Czech palačinka, that in turn from Hungarian palacsinta, and that in turn from Romanian plăcintă (a cake, a pie), where it ultimately derives from Latin placenta (a flat cake), a word of Greek origin.[3] Palačinka is also the name in most Slavic languages (Ukrainian, Slovak - palacinka, Serbian, Slovenian, Bosnian, Bulgarian, Czech, Macedonian, Croatian - palačinka/палачинка). In Polish, the equivalent is called a naleśnik, in Romanian clătită.

I'm not sure why these common central and east European foods become known through their Yiddish names, but that seems to be the case.

[Deleted]

This place Aux Délices de Maxime in that neighbourhood has some good stuff and their other place across the street Chez Akol has those pancakes.

www.mangercacher.com/traiteur-cacher/aux_delices_de_maxime_953.php

[lagatta]

Yes, most of those foods are common to Central and/or Eastern European cuisines and there is nothing specifically Jewish about them. What would be "Jewish" is their conformity to kosher laws in a part of the world where the pig plays an important part in foodstuffs, even cooking fat, and their use in certain holidays (see lucky or auspicious foods thread). Restaurant Mazurka, a longstanding and economical restaurant run by Catholic Poles, calls them blintzes on their menu as well...

As for Le Marais, a good strategy for such over-touristed places is to head there very early in the morning. The physical area is well-worth seeing, it is a beautiful and historic Paris district. I always head to the Italian bookshop on rue Roi-de-Sicile (appropriate name) just south of rue des Rosiers. I've even been to Place du Tertre in Montmartre extremely early and you can admire the little square, from an architectonic standpoint, without being engulfed in crowds or crap souvenirs. Remember, le Marais is also home to the Jewish art and historical museum, and several other important museums.

[tod2]

Jan 6, 2012 12:44:43 GMT bjd said:

I just checked to see what a "cheese blintz" is. These are simply crepes with sweetened cream cheese inside. My mother used to make them with raisins and an egg yolk mixed into the cheese. I believe they also exist in Hungarian cooking

Yes, that's them exactly bjd!
Fulgenzio -Thank you so much for the link where to find them I really appreciate information like that - when you are only in the city for a few short weeks, you don't want to waste time asking around and getting curious looks as you try to explain what you are after
Now I can go straight to the source!

Lagatta thanks! I'm checking that place out too!

[lagatta]

tod, here is the website of that museum: www.mahj.org - it is also available in English, though I don't know if all content is. Its precise name is le Musée d'art et d'histoire du judaïsme, which I find a bit odd as it is not only, or even mostly about "Judaism" - the religion - but about Jewish people and peoples, especially but not only in relation to Paris.

The building itself is worth a visit: like the Picasso Museum and Musée Carnavalet (Paris History Museum), it is lodged in an "hôtel particulier" - these were aristocratic urban habitations, which were later repurposed in many ways.

[tod2]

Might just be short of time for that particular museum as I have not yet visited the Picasso Museum or Cognacq-Jay, but have done a quick visit to Musee Carnavalet on my own - this time will have husband with me and do it all again. Will certainly try to fit it in - Thanks so much!

[Deleted]

Well, the Picasso museum is closed for extension and renovation until spring 2013, so it will not be eating into your schedule.

[tod2]

Oh Oh! Looks like I had better Google any other museums on my list to see what's cooking (not many but I hate wasting time and effort!) Thanks for that tip-off Kerouac.

[bixaorellana]

Today in my various feeds on the internet I read two disturbing articles. The first article, a news story, is from The New York Times, a publication which cannot be considered a completely reliable source.

The second article, a commentary, is from The New Yorker, to date a more thoughtful and careful source.

Kerouac, since you are a decades-long resident of Paris and a reader of not only the French press, but the news in general, I would enormously appreciate hearing your take on the two articles. Of course, the comments of any readers of this forum who are equally well-placed to judge the veracity of the pieces would be greatly welcomed as well.

[Deleted]

It is absolutely true that France became the biggest source of Jews performing the Aliyah (immigration to Israel) in 2014. Something like 24% of the immigrants to Israel came from France, compared to 21% from the United States (which has a much larger Jewish population) and around 15% from both Ukraine and Russia. Obviously, this is regrettable since it is a poll of countries where Jews feel that it would be better to leave than stay. No country likes to be rejected, no matter what the reason.

Israel is justly proud that it still attracts so many immigrants. However, there is another statistic the Israel refuses to divulge, and that is the "reverse-Aliyah" -- people returning to their home country because they were disappointed. Regarding France, this apparently concerns about half of the people who leave. They return in 2-5 years for a variety of reasons -- salaries, living conditions, cultural differences... And then some go back to Israel again, especially after a week like the one we have just had.

Israel is very lucky to be living a quite peaceful period at the moment, and I really hope that it continues, but obviously if a new war breaks out or even a return of the Intifada, huge numbers of Israelis will leave the country again.

One interesting thing about recent events in Paris is that the two terrorist brothers did their first carjacking after the slaughter on rue de Meaux, in the heart of this new Jewish district. This was probably not a coincidence, since this is the Buttes Chaumont area, and they were apparently members of the "Buttes Chaumont" islamist cell. They may have been hoping to find "friends" for assistance in that neighbourhood, but it is entirely possible that they were so ignorant that they were stopping in one of the most Jewish streets in the city.

[lagatta]

That is odd indeed, as there a great many Jewish as well as Muslim people in that area; any of the supermarkets I shopped at around there when I spent a month nearby in the 19th had kosher as well as halal sections.

Yes, a lot of French emigrants to anywhere return. There is no danger here similar to the situation in Israel/Palestine, but a lot of French immigrants to Québec return, and no, not only because of the severe winters (which bother young people far less than middle-aged and older ones).

Many Israelis have also moved to Germany, including many children and grandchildren of German Jews who were refugees from there.

[mossie]

Very interesting. As you know I have for several years holidayed in rue Petit at its junction with rue de Meaux. The area is very racially mixed, one sees religious Jews and obviously Moslem North Africans and other African types, along with many varied French people, apparently coexisting without stress. France has several African colonies from where these people mostly originate, while the Jews have lived in France for very many years, and of course some have immigrated from less welcoming parts of Europe in more recent times.

Most large cities have this mix of population who have to live together in varying degrees of harmony, it is a pity that wars and religion are once again a big problem, stoking unnecessary tensions.

[lagatta]

There are very old Jewish populations in France, both Ashkenazi (especially in Alsace) and Sephardic (especially in the Midi), but quite a lot of the Ashkenazi population arrived in the 19th and early 20th century, fleeing poverty and pogroms. And of course there were people arriving in or returning to France after the War and the Shoah, again mostly Ashkenazi. The many North African Jews began to arrive around the time of the decolonization of Algeria (a true "colony") as well as the "protectorates" Morocco and Tunisia.

Jews and Muslims have similar dietary rules, so it is not odd that they so often wind up as neighbours in many cities. And the North Africans had similar customs, whatever their faith, and even the "pieds noirs" colonists (from around the Mediterranean) adopted many of these. I don't think the conflicts are so much of religion, unless one is referring to political-religious extremists, as of the impact of historical, political events.

[bixaorellana]

Thanks so much for the prompt and illuminating answer, Kerouac. You made a good point about the possible reasons for people returning from Israel to their home countries. Do you think there is nearly as much of a general climate of anti-Semitism as the articles suggest?

Thank you to LaGatta and to Mossie, as well, for expanding the picture from both historical and first-hand perspectives.

[lagatta]

It would be interesting to go back there now, during Passover. It ends on 18 April. Moroccan Jews then celebrate Mimouna, which is the opposite - you have to eat foods forbidden during Passover. (Of course the gluten-intolerant are exempted from glutenous grains). Mimouna was always a holiday when Jewish Moroccans invited their Muslim neigbours, who typically brought the first bread.

www.nytimes.com/2013/03/20/dining/solving-the-passover-puzzle-in-paris.html Yes, NYT again, but by a food writer, Elaine Sciolino, of Catholic Sicilian heritage.

[Deleted]

I was reading the other day that although about 60% of the Muslim community in Paris now tries to eat halal, only about 20% of the Jews are strictly kosher. Those who end up performing the Alya generally get the same bad reputation as the Russian Jews in Israel because they like pork and other 'forbidden' items.

[lagatta]

Yes, almost all the Jewish people I know in Paris are secular and don't keep kosher (though some avoid pork). I have one Jewish friend in Paris who does keep kosher, of Moroccan origin. I was at a book launch by a writer of Jewish origin (but not at all religious) in Paris some years ago and there was pork charcuterie, and also cheeses. Cheeses are fine for kosher-keepers (if they are kosher-approved) but would not be served at the same meal as meat, even kosher meat.

That said, a lot of Jews there who don't keep kosher or avoid baked goods at Passover do conduct seders and might eat some traditional or symbolic foods. I suspect that rue Petit might be busy this week, as well as the far more touristy rue des Rosiers.