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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 26, 2013 17:23:54 GMT
Stellar, Tod ~~ made my day.
a wimoweh a wimoweh
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2013 17:30:25 GMT
If a baby elephant had proper coordination (which of course it does not), it could probably face a lion, but I think I would want to hide under mama as well.
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Post by htmb on Feb 26, 2013 23:13:08 GMT
In the jungle, the mighty jungle, The lion sleeps tonight...
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Post by slowcoach on Feb 27, 2013 2:54:09 GMT
Bixa,
A lion's roar means one of two different sounds, the one you might be thinking of is the noise typical of circus lions or wildlife films, a sort of wide mouthed catty snarling growl.
The other noise is a very loud deep groan, sounds like a very large animal in considerable distress.
I have only heard the second type in the wild and they can keep it up for hours.
Tod,
Perhaps you should point out that NP animals that hang out where they meet a lot of tourists are habituated.
Elephants are dangerous, they do charge, and they can cover 10m/sec. Family groups are dangerous, arguably as dangerous as the bulls.
Many African countries have experienced conflicts during which elephants have been slaughtered and famously elephants never forget. Outside of places like Kruger you can't be sure what they think of you, or your vehicle or the noise and smell it makes.
As a rule of thumb, unless you are really certain about particular elephants, 50m, in gear, engine running, facing so you can drive away from an elephant is very close. Seriously, were a bull to charge you, could you out run it driving backwards?
Driving amongst or between elephants would be reckless, that is probably not what you meant, rather the case of their walking around you.
Now mine is a particular view, based on elephants in the bush outside of NPs, and I have been charged by a matriarch and it all happens very quickly. You will read in guide books about mock and full charges but I am not totally confident that all elephants are that well read.
My feeling is that their behaviour in places where they regularly find vehicles and tourists is that of animals habituated to a specific tourism regime.
I think that an important part of the future of the African elephant will be in our collective ability to coexist in open country and that implies coexisting with a level of conflict. There are huge numbers of elephants (~300,000 ) in what will eventually be KAZA TFCA and they will wander into areas with permanent human populations and there will be conflict and those same animals will be subject to tourism.
Mark,
one of the benefits of travelling with local guides is in identifying the tracks of all the animals that you neither saw nor heard in and around the campsite overnight. I have seen that Hyena have come real close, well right beside the tent. We have also camped about 100m from a lion's den/lair when they were away. The male-less pride were over a kilometre away when we found them after breakfast.
Strangely no one ever wanted to travel with us.
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Post by onlymark on Feb 27, 2013 4:36:49 GMT
I had to go back to the start of this thread to remember what it was about, it's two years old now. Also to see if I mentioned about the lions in Kafue, in Zambia, which I did. We caught up with a mating pair a couple of hours later and watched them for a long, long time. I've also had hyenas come right into a bush campsite and steal shoes and a belt for the leather to eat. Near Chobe in Botswana I had an efalump wander too close to the camp for my liking and scare the crap out of me - it just seemed to sneak up on us.
I'd have travelled with you slowcoach, wimps normal people are, if only for the identification of tracks. I used to get a book out to help as best as it could.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2013 11:16:34 GMT
I only go with guides who have been trained to identify sex, age and whereabouts by nibbling the dung left behind.
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Post by tod2 on Feb 27, 2013 12:03:30 GMT
If a baby elephant had proper coordination (which of course it does not), it could probably face a lion, but I think I would want to hide under mama as well. And another important thing.....moms 2 tits are between her front legs. This baby had just had a good suck but moved before I could get the shot.
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Post by tod2 on Feb 27, 2013 12:47:23 GMT
Bixa, A lion's roar means one of two different sounds- Tod, Perhaps you should point out that NP animals that hang out where they meet a lot of tourists are habituated. Elephants are dangerous, they do charge, and they can cover 10m/sec. Family groups are dangerous, arguably as dangerous as the bulls. As a rule of thumb, unless you are really certain about particular elephants, 50m, in gear, engine running, facing so you can drive away from an elephant is very close. Seriously, were a bull to charge you, could you out run it driving backwards? Driving amongst or between elephants would be reckless, that is probably not what you meant, rather the case of their walking around you. Slowcoach - to answer you, I stated that I have only heard the lions at Hlane, Swaziland, roaring at night but, since then (this is quite an old post) my photo-essays on Kruger National Park have revealed that last year we heard them every night during our stay at Sirheni Bushveld Camp in Kruger. Very thrilling. The lions at Hlane are very used to tourists and the driver drove right next to them, They paid no notice and kept on sleeping. They were certainly no match for any lion in Kruger. I do agree that some animals in Kruger are used to vehicles and take a non-chalant attitude . You can tell the ones that rarely see vehicles or cameras pointing at them as they streak off into the bush. All elephants ( even circus trained ones) are dangerous! I never drive up to a group closer than 30-50 metres but sometimes you find yourself parked alongside the road watching them feeding, when suddenly in front or behind or both, they emerge from the bush to cross over the road. That doesn't faze me at all as long as all your limbs are confined inside the vehicle and you remain still - don't start jumping around inside leaping from seat to seat to get some photos. As for bull elephants. They are mean critters. I have often found one heading down the road towards me with loads of attitude. I stop, get into reverse and slowly back away. Sometimes for over a km or if lucky I proceed ahead when he is safely foraging off the road! Should I come up behind one I stop and wait until he decides to wander off into the bush. They never stay on the road indefinitely. You really shouldn't stick around if an elephant keeps turning his head in your direction and flapping his ears. Lifting his trunk and sniffing the air also alerts me to an unhappy ellie - unless they are far away - I have put up photos of a group doing just that as we stopped to watch them and in were no danger at all. I used to be terrified of elephants. This was cured when a ranger friend of ours took us to Addo Elephant Reserve. During our drive our vehicle became totally surrounded by over 50 elephants of all sizes. I was so scared but need not have been. Thanks for all your input - it's always nice to hear someone else's opinion!
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Post by onlymark on Feb 27, 2013 14:18:42 GMT
I thought lions had a greater vocabulary than that. They can talk to hyenas, can't they?
They did in The Lion King.
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Post by lugg on Mar 4, 2013 19:18:11 GMT
I do not know how I have missed this thread before. Wonderful Tod, thank you.
The one thing that really struck me about your photos is that it they really do illustrate the differences and an easy way to identify species that a guide in Sri Lanka explained to me - African elephants ears really do resemble Africa (as opposed to the ears of Asian elephants which are much smaller and resemble India)
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 5, 2013 15:48:21 GMT
Oh ~~ what a great way to remember the difference between the two! I knew one had smaller ears, but never could remember which was which.
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