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Post by mossie on Sept 8, 2012 13:09:39 GMT
Certainly not Mark. Actually I used something called Brilliantine. My mother got a shock when I came home on leave from Egypt with my flying kit. She decided the flying suit needed washing and bitterly regretted it when she found her washing machine full of sand. The leather helmet had to have a wadding of newspaper as the Brilliantine practically dripped out of it. ;D ;D Am I bit tied up at the mo so further editions will have to wait a bit.
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Post by htmb on Sept 9, 2012 4:24:01 GMT
My dad used Vitalis his whole adult life. It was a grooming habit he picked up in the navy. Until I was in high school I thought all men used it, too.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2012 11:00:03 GMT
My father was a Vitalis man as well -- probably due to 37 years in the Navy.
Looking at those old airplanes, I am struck by how clunky they appear but also how solid and "fixable." All of those old movies where people crashed in the desert were (just a little bit) believable, because you could understand that with the proper tools, you could put enough of the plane back together to make it work again.
Modern planes, no way!
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Post by mossie on Sept 9, 2012 12:24:47 GMT
It all depends on how carefully you crash them ;D ;D Don't forget, any landing is a good landing----if you can walk away from it
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Post by auntieannie on Sept 9, 2012 14:17:02 GMT
um... I can't help but think they made films about the kind of stuff you describe, Mossie.. and you lived it! and now you're telling us all about it!
Thank you for sharing.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 15, 2012 6:54:46 GMT
Annie's comment makes me wish we had a "Like" button, but I'll just say DITTO!
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Post by mossie on Sept 15, 2012 14:47:33 GMT
Well, if you like a lesson in how to bend an aeroplane, here is one. I served as a nav/rad and flew in all 4 NF marks of the Meteor, plus a few trips in the trainer, T7. One trip in particular stands out when I was serving on 39 Sqdn in Egypt. We were part of a formation briefed as a “box four”, the T7 led with the other three being NF13s. I was intending to get a pic of Nos 1 and 2 on takeoff, but No 1 accelerated rapidly away because the T7 was so much lighter. I swore at him and then realised that we were closing and without thinking snapped the first shot. As I took the camera away from my eye I saw we had passed him and that his ventral tank was dragging along the runway. We carried on and after burning off a little fuel cut the exercise short and landed and went out to the end of the runway, where I took the second pic. Here you can see the remains of the ventral fuel tank, containing 180 gallons, just behind the aircraft. That had ended up about 100 yards beyond the end of the runway. The pilot had of course forgotten “turbo lag”. He realised he was spoiling the formation and had cut his throttles to let us catch up, when he applied the power again it took too long to power up, with the result you see.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 30, 2012 19:43:46 GMT
These aeroplanes are incredible.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2012 17:29:32 GMT
I sometimes fantasize about being able to go back in time with a digital camera and take unlimited photos of things and events. We had to ration our film so much in the old days that these photos are even more precious than most since they are not posed and show "things happening."
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 11:02:38 GMT
I have been meaning to respond to this thread for awhile, but, my then computer was overheating and I could only get so far and have to shut down, so, I apologize mossie for not getting back to this sooner. (computer issues since resolved). Anyway, I loved seeing these old planes and reading your text. A very dear friend of my mother's served in the RAF and flew her own plane up until her death at a healthy age 88, not too many years back. I had the great privilege of going up in a plane with her in 1989. She flew me all over the area where I grew up,it was quite beautiful and very generous and kind of her to do. Some years ago a book was published in the UK by Amazon about the the women of the RAF, she among many, titled Spitfire Women Of World War II, by Giles Whitell. I believe there are several documentaries of them as well. I was able to procure a copy of it for my mother,(for a a pretty penny). A very fascinating woman, and a true pioneer in the aviation world. www.airtransportaux.com/www.womensmemorial.org/H&C/Oral_History/ohwood-kelly.html
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Post by mossie on Oct 26, 2012 12:33:52 GMT
Thanks Casimira. Those women were real heroes and did not get the honour they deserve. For those who don't know, they delivered new aircraft from the factories to wherever the RAF needed them. They were expected to jump into the latest hot ships and master them with little or no instruction. It was not unusual for them to go from a four engine bomber to the latest fighter. Some of the aircraft had positively dangerous flight characteristics and could be lethal if mishandled.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 12:55:28 GMT
Oh how cool! I didn't know that fact mossie. I do recall Anne telling us a story of flying through a tunnel (could it have been the London Tunnel, I don't know) and other daredevil like feats. She lived in Massachusetts and would fly into a little airport on Long Island where we lived. She would fly over the house real low, and' bomb' us to alert us of her arrival. On the day that she took me up to fly over my home town she was already well into her 80's. My brother was horrified that I was going but, my mother thoroughly trusted her skill and capabilities. I do have to say though that when we went up she flew so low over our house that you could actually see the look of fear on my brother and mother's faces!!! It was real low, and, there was a really tall church steeple just yards away. I wasn't afraid for even a second, rather exhilarated by the whole experience.
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Post by mossie on Oct 26, 2012 14:14:30 GMT
I think you exaggerate with Tunnels, but the daredevils quite commonly flew under bridges, in fact in a protest about cuts to the RAF some years ago, a jet was flown under Tower Bridge. However, there is a saying to the effect that there may be old pilots and bold pilots, but there are no known old, bold pilots . That being so, low flying is very exhilarating and I was lucky enough to have a skilled pilot who was quite good at it. See this little dock pier in the Gulf of Suez
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 16:02:50 GMT
Me? Exagerrate? Never....... Yes, it was likely a bridge Mossie now that I think about it. I shared this thread with my husband btw, and he was enthralled with it. Great pic of the canal!! That is low indeed. Thanks again for taking the time to share all this with us and keep 'em coming if you have the time and energy!!! Truly fascinating!
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Post by htmb on Oct 26, 2012 16:14:17 GMT
I second that, Mossie!
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Post by mossie on Oct 26, 2012 18:31:20 GMT
Thinking of the canal, here is a typical smallish freighter gently plodding up the Suez Canal. Their speed was restricted to try and stop too much erosion of the banks from the wash. The canal had to be periodically dredged to maintain the specified depth. We used to play games with this type of boat. If we were low flying near the section just north of Lake Timsah, where there were banks about 20ft high. When we were low over the desert we could just see the two masts and the funnel, so would roar across them at right angles. poor so-and-sos would never see us coming and before they knew what had happened we were out of sight over the other side of the canal. Rotten sods ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 26, 2012 18:53:02 GMT
Your propellors were probably blowing more sand into the canal than the boats were splashing!
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Post by htmb on Oct 31, 2012 3:35:09 GMT
Mossie, your stories really are fascinating and I love seeing these photos.
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Post by mossie on Oct 31, 2012 19:19:52 GMT
htmb, your wish is my command. Here is another with a little story attached This shows 3 planes taken from No 4, I had to ask my pilot to shuffle over a little so that I could hide the sun behind the tail of No 3. These 4 aircraft comprised our whole squadron strength at that moment . As was the norm for Mosquito night fighter units at the time, the squadron was at half strength, i.e. 8 aircraft and 10 crews. The object being that we should always be able to put 6 aircraft in the air at any time. On this occasion we were returning from the annual air firing detachment in Cyprus, when we had 3 weeks of nothing but air firing, so that the pilots could at least get close to hitting something if the need arose. We had gone with 6 aircraft. We lost one when he ran out of fuel while on the firing range, which was just offshore. He was forced to put it down on the beach, wheels up which didn't improve it and from where it was impossible to be recovered. A few days later our CO, no doubt with that accident on his mind, allowed his plane to swing on landing. The inevitable result of that with the Mosquito, was the collapse of the undercarriage, and another write off. I say almost inevitable, the Mosquito would always swing (swerve) on landing owing to the gyroscopic forces caused by two large airscrews turning in the same direction. This could be controlled by the rudder at high speeds, but once the tail dropped at about 60 knots the rudder wasn't good enough and the brakes had to be used.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2012 19:45:14 GMT
I think that those pilots sacrificed their planes so that the remaining planes would fit into your viewfinder!
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Post by htmb on Oct 31, 2012 22:04:16 GMT
What a nice photo you took, Mossie! Thank you for another most interesting post.
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Post by bixaorellana on Nov 2, 2012 15:35:29 GMT
Geeeeeez, Mossie ~~ one of your most exciting stories to date! The fine tuning to overcome built-in peculiarities of the Mosquito must have been impossible for some people to master.
That's a magnificent photo.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2012 16:35:04 GMT
Jeez is right. I find this so utterly fascinating Mossie and thank you ever so much for sharing. I've spoken to folks who were tail gunners and heard some grueling stories..... I personally, have no reference to WWII per say, as my family of that generation never served, save one uncle who was in the US Navy. The rest, including my father, all farmed and were therefore exempt.
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Post by mossie on Nov 2, 2012 19:51:36 GMT
Speaking of the American Navy, here is one of their large destroyers hove to in the Great Bitter Lake. Ships come through the canal in convoys, the southbound convoy leaves Port Said in the evening and takes about 6 or 7 hours to reach the Lake. There they wait while the northbound convoy passes them before they can continue out to the Gulf of Suez. Notice how mirror smooth the Lake is, it is about 15 miles long and 8 wide, and it was not uncommon for it to be so calm. I can remember taking off at dusk and thinking it was difficult to know which way was up, so perfectly was the sky reflected.
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Post by mossie on Apr 30, 2013 19:20:40 GMT
Thought it best to reopen this old thread for this. I recently had my bits and pieces framed up to hang on the wall. The two badges are cloth and are for sewing onto our best flying suits. I was given the medal for drinking Stella beer, which was the local Egyptian beer which was brewed from onions. Here also is a formation shot taken over the Great Bitter Lake with part of the Sinai desert below.
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Post by bixaorellana on Apr 30, 2013 22:56:44 GMT
Very nice job of framing those items. Having the photo included with them makes them even more interesting. What is the N with the wing on it, please? And you're pulling our legs about the beer one, right?
That last picture is great, especially considering the plane you were in must have been kind of bouncy.
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Post by htmb on Apr 30, 2013 23:47:19 GMT
Very beautifully framed, Mossie, but please tell us more about the medal.
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Post by htmb on May 1, 2013 3:36:42 GMT
Speaking of US destroyers ( in post 53): USS Black (DD-666) was a Fletcher-class destroyer of the United States Navy, named for Lieutenant Commander Hugh D. Black (1903–1942), who was killed in action during the sinking of his ship, Jacob Jones in February 1942.
......On 9 June, 1953, Black departed (Korea) for Norfolk, via the Suez Canal, arriving on the east coast 6 August. Until January 1955, she conducted type training, fleet operations, and plane guard duties along the east coast and in the Caribbean. In January 1955 Black transferred to the Pacific Fleet arriving at Long Beach 26 January.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Black_(DD-666)www.navsource.org/archives/05/666.htm
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Post by mossie on May 1, 2013 7:34:40 GMT
Htmb, many thanks for the history of the Black. That shot could have been taken on her way out to Korea, in 1952 ?, although I am not sure of the date now. The medal actually is the General Service Medal, awarded to people who have served in troubled areas. The bar on the ribbon reads "Canal Zone" and the medal was given to people who served during a specific period, in this case about Oct 1951 to Apr 54. It was the only medal I got during my 8 years service. The N is the brevet denoting that I was a navigator and was worn above the left breast pocket of uniform. The beer was "rotgut", and was brewed from onions
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Post by htmb on May 1, 2013 10:09:33 GMT
Mossie, I believe the destroyer was traveling from Korea westward to the US in 1953.
A very fine medal to have indeed!
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