Non verbal communication

[Deleted]

Does anybody here use non verbal communication a lot?

While I physically know how to wink, it is something that does not come naturally to me at all, so it is something that I never manage to use on the spur of the moment, which is the only time that it is valid. When people wink at me for one reason or another, I am always in admiration, just because I didn't think of doing it.

On the other hand, I am an expert of the raised eyebrow or the almost imperceptible mouth movement to convey certain things. And I can roll my eyes with the best of them. People who know me always tend to look at me at meetings so that I can give them an idea of what I think about what is going on even when I am not saying anything.

Over the last six months as my mother has lost most of her verbal skills, I have noticed that she understands facial expressions and hand and body movements much better and faster than if I try to speak to her. Rather than asking her if she is hungry or thirsty, I make the French hand movements to convey my question, and I usually get a rapid response. Spoken words take 5 or 10 repetitions to start entering her brain.

I have also noticed that on the metro, strangers who are witnessing weird or dangerous behaviour exchange very clear expressions without speaking to tell each other things like "that was hilarious" or "this is getting scary" or "what was that all about?"

[htmb]

All this is pretty stream of consciousness, but.....

I think the study of body language is fascinating. (Eye-rolling and the stare are both my forte). I have enjoyed reading books about non-verbal communication. Malcolm Gladwell's Blink comes to mind.

Often people with forms of autism, such as Asbergers Symdrome, have difficulties reading social cues and body language. I've occasionally worked with students to help them learn to relate to others by reading social cues, but it can be difficult.

I think relating to your mother via hand signals is brilliant.

[Deleted]

It's an interesting topic.
When I worked as a family therapist one of the tools we would use was to videotape family therapy sessions.
It always astounded me how much I and others, including the family we were working with could use to interpret and exemplify certain behavior/ pathology based on the non verbal communication that would be demonstrated in a session. Fascinating.

I'm one of those people who are a "dead give away" at reading what's going on with me non verbally. My husband is the opposite.

My mother and I had a wonderful nonverbal communication relationship and would be able to read one another's feelings about goings on during mealtimes in instances such as my brother bringing home some "bimbo" for dinner.
We had it down to a science and were very subtle and polite but afterwards would laugh uproariously at some of the interactions we noted.

[Deleted]

My opinion of a situation -- even just meeting somebody -- is apparently unreadable if I am not giving any obvious signals. Unfortunately, I have learned that my "neutral" (to me) expression is interpreted as "hostile" by just about everybody. Many people who have become friends have told me things like "I thought you couldn't stand me the first time we met."

[onlymark]

I have followed this for many years - originally in my teens when my hormones meant I would use any advantage I could to read girls, their meanings and feelings.
Later in one of my careers I used body language/non-verbal communication to determine the mental state of a person as regards the likelihood of violence or flight from my presence. Also I used it to reasonably good effect during interview situations to determine falsehood, plus using mirror image movements (mirroring the body language of the other person) to put them at ease or using movements that clashed with theirs to appear more threatening and make them feel uncomfortable.

Even later I used it - as can be attested - as a party trick. A group of us were in a bar at the end of an exhibition where other exhibitors were also there. Near to us was a small group of three people, two women and a man. The only thing we had in common with any of them was we had all been at the same travel show.
I bet my group that within two minutes literally of moving over to the other three I would be left alone with one of the women I nominated and without saying anything about what I was trying to do. I could only say pleasantries and use non-verbal communication to achieve this.
I won the bet and this has been one of the highlights of my sad life, hence I remember it clearly. One of the group still brings it up.

In short, I find it fascinating that we all use it all the time, even when we are not aware of it and a real barrier to communication when you can't use it over the internet.

[htmb]

I know someone who tends to lie a good bit, but who also gives it away with distinct body language. The eyes close, head tilts to the right, right shoulder goes up, and the hands turn palms up. Very revealing.

[Deleted]

Kerouac, I have had the same misinterpretation of my body language spelled out to me as being perceived as hostile. I have a particular type of smirk, one I might add, I'm quite distinguished by and have come to be proud of, that I inadvertently display freely although, not with the intent of being hostile. I love a good smirker....
The pout is a whole other subject....
And then, there's the glare....
Often, it's also a look of total indifference which has more to do with my mind wandering which gave my husband the just and albeit affectionate interpretation of being "The Girl With Far Away Eyes...."

I know what of what you refer to Mark because I also had similar type professional situations with patients whom I had to evaluate and it was imperative that I be acutely aware of every move, eye contact, when to avoid it, how to interpret it etc. lest I put myself in a potentially dangerous position. One wrong gesture misinterpreted by someone floridly psychotic could be grossly misinterpreted and the like.
It was also extremely important in being able to establish an alliance with someone I was likely to be working with therapeutically. There were many instances where all my hard efforts at this would be sabotaged by some unwitting student, other social worker etc. and it would take a long time for me to reestablish that trust and alliance with a particular patient.
So, while I say I'm any easy read ,I speak of myself under "normal"social situations. The other was a purely professionally honed skill which I had to master.
The other aspect of not being able to get a read on this on line via internet has also always fascinated me and was the jist of where I was was going with a long gone, and ironically, misinterpreted thread, Your On Line Personae.
I also am teased by an old dear friend whom I still know and see, far more physically attractive than I who says to me she was always after the same guy...it was something about how I moved or looked non verbally that was the attraction. It's a powerful way of communicating and or skill, whether conscious or not.

Again, a very fascinating topic.

[questa]

another bump...

We have to be careful with the body language of people in other cultures. In my work in Oz I would frequently be working with mothers and their babies, specially those from SE Asia.

I had to learn not to have eye contact with mother if I wanted her to tell me what was happening. I would look at and talk to the baby and mum would open up with her problems. If I looked at her she would just clam up and tell me everything was OK.

It is the custom for SE Asian people to smile, no matter what emotions they have. It is a cover for fear, shame and sadness. You have to listen to their story and mirror the content, not the smiling presentation.

And, of course, ALWAYS use your right hand when giving or passing something to a person. Using your left is a big no-no. I have become so used to doing this, that in Oz if I use my left hand by accident my hand tingles and feels 'wrong'.

[rikita]

the part about looking at the babies is interesting. why is that? is it about specifically talking to the baby, or not to the woman in general?

[questa]

Rikita, from an early age children are taught to lower their eyes when talking to someone of higher authority. Kids avoid direct eye contact with their school teachers, and in Indonesia, at least, people avoid it with police, army personnel etc.

By not having direct eye contact with the mother most of the time, I was allowing her to talk to me as an equal and I was (I hope) not coming across as an authority figure.

If there was a problem with a baby waking frequently at night (for instance) instead of asking the mother why she thought baby was waking and what was she doing about it (and possibly setting up a judgmental situation) I would look at the baby and say something like, "You are keeping Mum awake, what has she tried to get you to sleep better?" Mum would look at Baby and say " we tried this and tried that..."

If I had met the mother and used Western body language and eye contact she would probably seen me as an authority figure. If I asked if anything was amiss, the mother would probably have used the Asian practice of "keep the Boss happy" and tell me everything was OK even if it was not.

Of course my travels and working in this field in Indonesia made me more aware of different customs of child rearing, so I fitted in more comfortably with Asian mothers' expectations to start with.

[bixaorellana]

Very interesting about learning and using a different kind of body language from what you were used to, Questa. Did you have to formally learn it, or did it seem to come naturally to you from observation?

[questa]

Bixa,


When I was 6 I was invited to a Chinese New Year Party. I didn't know what I should do, but my Dad, a firm multiculturist, gave me good advice.

"Find another girl about your age who is joining in and do what she does." I still follow this idea, but now I am with the old ladies.

A lot I learned from mixing with the Buddhist communities in Australia by observation or being gently told what not to do.

Sharp learning curve living in Bali for several years and joining in with their ceremonies and lifestyle. This was observation and direct instruction from my Balinese friends there.

(one day I will write a list here of DOs and DON'Ts, just for fun)

Another 2 years in Lombok...Muslim culture and government office ways of doing things. (always tell the boss everything is going well, he doesn't want to know the project has flopped because all the middle men have taken their 'cut' and not enough is left to finish the project)

Some places have posters up to teach kids what is acceptable behaviour, e.g. "While fooling around getting dressed it is wrong to put your underpants on your head".

General guidance...heads are sacred, do nothing to dishonour them.
Below the waist is not, don't toss your jeans onto the pillow on the bedhead.
Feet are dishonorable...don't point them at people
Books or anything written is honored...careful where you put them.

More another day!

[Deleted]

Since Indonesia has a lively countercultural music scene, I wonder if their music videos have any scenes in them purposely meant to shock.

[questa]

K2...what an interesting thought! I am slightly familiar with the "acceptable" pop groups who have songs dealing with peace, corruption, anti-globalization etc but I can't say the DVDs showed any overt signs of rebellion against the social ideas of acceptable behaviour. Perhaps they are too ingrained into each person's way of life that it would not occur to the performers go against them.

[questa]

Here is an example...If person A asks person B to pass them a knife, an Australian and probably all Westerners will turn it and pass the knife with the handle towards the person A. They have done this all their life and do it automatically.

I was surprised that all the times a knife was passed in my restaurant by an Indonesian, they passed it point first and the recipient would take it from their hand at the point where the blade and handle joined.
It was just as automatic. I had to learn that there is more ways to do simple things like this...blow up a balloon or untie a knot in a plastic bag.

[rikita]

it's very interesting. i sometimes wonder how often i did something wrong or offensive by mistake in other countries, though at least i never noticed a negative reaction, so maybe i did okay ...

the part about child rearing is interesting too, i sometimes wish i could do some type of research in other cultures, or generally learn about the child raising there. my liberian friend is sometimes giving me advice about agnes that seems a bit strange to me - though i am never sure when it is a communication problem, and when it is things she learned about child raising at home ... it is more details though ...

[questa]

Rikita, every child is reared differently to every other child, even in the same family, depending on his/her place in the family or personality, parents expectations etc. I saw lots of interesting variants while living in Indonesia.

In Oz we are more strict with our toddlers out in public. There is a pressure on parents that they should 'behave', so you hear much "don't touch that" and "don't run around" or "don't make that noise". As the kids get older this relaxes and it is expected they will run around noisily.

Indonesia taught me the toddlers were expected to run riot, even in village meetings or serious occasions they were tolerated. I noticed that very little control was exercised over the little kids, but they learnt by imitation from the older kids how to behave. As they got to 5-7 years they behaved well.

[bixaorellana]

In this world of television, movies, and internet communication, it's probably not as easy to accidentally offend people in other cultures as it used to be. Still, even fairly sophisticated people who travel must run up against mysterious customs, as well as confusing others with their "normal" customs.

[Deleted]

Meanwhile in Italy....

[bjd]

I saw that too, Kerouac, but the deaf guy's signing seemed much more frantic than the Italian's hand gestures.

One of the schools where I live has classes for deaf children. When I pass the parents who have dropped their kids off in the morning and who stand and talk/communicate, I'm always struck that they take up a lot of space in front of the school. Obviously, it's because they need more room to gesture and see the others, but it's striking anyway. Just things we don't think about in the usual course of events.

[Deleted]

In any case, the advent of text messaging must have absolutely revolutionized their lives.