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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2012 19:09:23 GMT
I'm just wondering how many "incidents" are required for the majority of Americans to decide once and for all that gun control is a necessity and that the famous "second amendment" applied to the 18th century and not the 21st century.
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Post by mich64 on Dec 14, 2012 20:15:53 GMT
Agree with you 100% Kerouac. I had been watching the coverage (as it has replaced most regular scheduled programming) but can not bear to hear anymore of the details, incredibly sad for the victims and their families.
"Guns do not kill people, people kill people" is what some gun supporters profess. How about "people without guns do not shoot people , people with guns shoot people".
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2012 5:41:21 GMT
Will this kind of crap continue to fly with American public opinion?
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Post by mossie on Dec 15, 2012 8:33:42 GMT
Well I'm glad I live under a dictator Cameron is fairly lenient, the state has not shot very many of its citizens this year. ;D That the so called leader of the free world permits its citizens to act so irresponsibly is not a good advert for democracy. I feel very sorry for the grieving parents, relatives and friends devastated by this latest outrage.
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Post by bjd on Dec 15, 2012 9:16:36 GMT
I noticed this post last night but didn't know what it was about. Only saw the news in the paper this morning.
At the risk of sounding harsh, I do get fed up with the repeated prayers, tears and shock when absolutely nothing is done to prevent it happening again and again. How many shootings of random people have taken place in the States just in 2012?
How long with there be people ready to defend a constitutional article written in the 18th century and which is no longer applicable?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2012 22:49:33 GMT
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Post by mossie on Dec 16, 2012 8:51:58 GMT
That list is quite remarkable in that it is dominated by states from N and S America. Once you get away from there suicide leads homicide for cause of death. Must say something about Longitude, the sun has got tired when it gets round that side of the globe and addles the brain
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Post by bjd on Dec 16, 2012 10:18:04 GMT
Well, El Salvador has a huge gang problem, which would explain the numbers. Many of the gang members were youths previously imprisoned in the States, where they learned about LA street gangs, and took the "culture" back with them when they were deported after serving their sentence.
Drug running by organized crime explains a lot of the other top countries' fatality rates.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2012 17:02:27 GMT
The midday news showed numerous Americans being interviewed and saying that gun control is out of the question.
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Post by onlymark on Dec 17, 2012 5:01:27 GMT
Rep. Louie Gohmert (R-Texas) ..................Gohmert argued that the mass slaughter would have gone differently if Sandy Hook principal Dawn Hochsprung had been armed.
"Chris, I wish to God she had had an m-4 in her office, locked up so when she heard gunfire, she pulls it out ... and takes him out and takes his head off before he can kill those precious kids," Gohmert said.www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/16/louie-gohmert-guns_n_2311379.html
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Post by onlymark on Dec 17, 2012 5:49:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2012 18:58:08 GMT
Even though France has a lot of hunters, I am pretty amazed to find it #2 for the total number of guns. But in any case, the guns are generally not being used much in terms of the other statistics.
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Post by lola on Dec 17, 2012 19:22:21 GMT
I heard a comment this morning that today's pro-gun people have a large radically insurrectionist faction, as opposed to 50 years ago: "This is not your grandfather's NRA." The idea is to be able to stand up to government forces -- yeah right -- if necessary, or if the individual disagrees with the laws, or...
Having a biracial President whose hidden agenda is to come and take away your guns adds gasoline to that fire. People who profit from arms sales surely must pay to help propagandize.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2012 18:52:18 GMT
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Post by onlymark on Dec 21, 2012 17:44:04 GMT
Wayne LaPierre, chief executive of the NRA,
"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun."
I wonder if he's considered the possibility that if the bad guy didn't have a gun in the first place.............?
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Post by bjd on Dec 21, 2012 19:44:15 GMT
Wayne LaPierre, chief executive of the NRA, "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." I wonder if he's considered the possibility that if the bad guy didn't have a gun in the first place.............? I don't believe people like him consider any possibilities other than their own narrow little point of view. Just the other day in the paper, I read in the paper that it has happened that when a bad guy with a gun is confronted by other people with guns (the "good guys"), the others either don't shoot or shoot the wrong person.
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Post by mich64 on Dec 21, 2012 20:03:26 GMT
On the news last night we listened to a young American father who says he is now carrying his licensed gun on him at all times, everywhere, even to the grocery store, to protect himself and his family.
It is troubling that people think carrying a concealed weapon is the answer and that they need to think of personal safety while simply shopping for groceries. Thankfully, and in contrast, the only thing I have to think about is finding a good parking spot.
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Post by rikita on Dec 22, 2012 16:05:27 GMT
it'd be interesting to know if and how many of those shootings ever where stopped by someone with a gun (other than police)...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2012 17:33:23 GMT
That's a very interesting point. I don't recall ever reading a single article about some sort of criminal act where an armed ordinary citizen suddenly pulled out his/her gun to save the day.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2012 20:52:37 GMT
A couple of years ago there was an incident here in NOLA that involved an armed robbery in progress at a bakery. One of the customers in the bakery at the time of the robbery was sitting at a table having his coffee and reading the paper. The robbers pulled out their guns, and he pulled a gun out and shot one of the robbers, the other armed robber ran and was apprehended shortly thereafter.
He was just an ordinary citizen who happened to be armed at the time.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2012 21:05:28 GMT
Ah, so it has happened. However, I imagine that it is exceedingly rare.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2012 23:53:59 GMT
I can only hope so. I know of the incident intimately as the owner of the bakery was a neighbor of mine atm and called me right after the incident to ask me to attend to her dog as she was going to be involved in major police red tape and media bullshit. The unfortunate aspect of some incidents that I'm aware of such as this has unfortunately prompted some people who would never dream of owning a gun,now do. It disturbs me greatly as I am totally anti gun unequivocally and the whole topic disturbs me greatly but seems inescapable here in NOLA which has a very high murder crime rate, having been married to a first responder who has witnessed way too may unnecessary murders,children etc. The whole thing disturbs me horribly. I was held up at gun point in broad daylight in 1978 while locking my bicycle up to a lamp post right here in my very neighborhood. They caught the fucks,gratefully. I was indeed spooked but, not enough to go out and buy a gun. Others, unfortunately have. I also have had very intimate personal tragedies occur to loved ones owning guns, taking their own lives. Guns are evil in my life and will always remain so.
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Post by mossie on Dec 23, 2012 8:44:22 GMT
Having been taught to use, and used, various weapons from the .38 revolver via the .303 rifle through sub machine guns up to the 20mm aircraft cannon, I am quite certain that guns should be strictly confined to the military. In Utopia of course there would be no need even for them. Yes, the sportsmen and game wardens will be up in arms . How did people cope 1000 years ago, with slings and bows and arrows etc, so there is no reason we cannot revert to that. Yes Kerouac, I hear you, we could all live in caves and be a lot more civilised than we are now ;D
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Post by onlymark on Dec 23, 2012 10:19:06 GMT
How did people cope 1000 years ago, with slings and bows and arrows etc, ..... According to Shakespeare it is nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. Just so you know.
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Post by bjd on Dec 23, 2012 10:24:42 GMT
Well, now in the States, outrageous fortune would be gunned down.
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Post by onlymark on Dec 23, 2012 11:34:09 GMT
Not if it was at school with an armed teacher.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2012 12:34:52 GMT
But could you hear the recitation over the gunfire?
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Post by mich64 on Dec 23, 2012 17:44:56 GMT
The NRA is advising that every school have an armed guard.
There seemed to have been a lot of planning involved in carrying out this murderous assault on this school, I would think the next person will plan around the armed guard and shoot his way into where the guard is not patrolling. I would rather they install bullet proof glass in all schools and have a locked door policy.
More guns is not the answer.
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Post by tod2 on Dec 23, 2012 17:56:09 GMT
Absolutely not the answer Mich. If anything the laws that allow a person to carry a licensed firearm should be very strict and also the conditions in which it may be discharged when you are under threat of attack. If anything, I think serious background checks should be carried out. Guns here are 'supposed' to be locked in a gun-safe at all times unless holstered about your person. If your gun is stolen you are in serious trouble and so much shit if its found to be used in a crime.
Not so many years ago my husband and son went to work everyday with holstered guns. This saved my husbands life. He left the shop one day and was approached by 5 men, one pointing a gun. They demanded he open the doors. He agreed and slowly lifted his sweater as he turned around. He drew his 9ml Beretta, swung around and fired at the guy pointing a gun - this was point blank range. He then dropped to the ground (army training) and fired at them as they ran away, also firing more shots at him. To this day no one has ever been arrested.
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Post by mich64 on Dec 23, 2012 21:51:27 GMT
Very alarming situation Tod! Does your husband and son still carry a holstered gun to work each day? If not, what has changed that it is no longer felt necessary?
I come from an area where there are guns (99.9% for hunting), there is crime but so little that I never feel unsafe. Mind you, I also know which neighborhoods or streets are best to stay away from.
We also have strict gun laws and they must be locked in a case at home. I have very few friends that own guns as most of our friends are not hunters. We have had controversy in our Country as our gun registry was discontinued recently.
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