Köln-Ehrenfeld

[nautiker]

hi gusm, glad you enjoyed!

cheers bixaorellana, glad you enjoyed, too.

note that the number of industrial buildings that can be reused is very limited, though: most of them are too big (heavy industries won’t return), too difficult to turn into offices and/or beyond repair. at best they’ll be used as warehouses until something completely new will be built. the intermediate use is sporadic except for the few established venues – a lot of land owners are also sceptical towards intermediate use out of fear projects might establish themselves to an extent that it will become difficult to close them down once a more profitable use appears (has happened before). given that some buildings have so far been restored, however, leads me to the assumption it might turn out a nice mix sometime in the future (unlike other cities that choose to completely tear down areas large scale).

btw, I’m no expert, yet assume turning these halls into venues in fact isn’t that costly: hardly inflammable materials and mostly just ground floor makes it easy to fulfil fire safety. heating is basic (hot air), heat insulation not necessary, so basically just some washrooms and lighting/electricity, maybe a bit of paint. this kind of venue is very common around here, as there’s no shortage of empty buildings…

most blocks of flats of the pre WWI-era used to be much more decorated (even though being a working-class neigbourhood), however the mouldings often got damaged during WWII and/or removed after the war as it was cheaper to maintain. post-war buildings have always been rather plain (easy to spot: smaller windows with straight lintel). currently there’s quite some debate in Germany: the government is heavily subsisdising home owners to heat-insulate their homes, thus plenty of richly ornamented buildings get clad in boring styrofoam blocks :-(

I fear you might be mistaken about the graffiti being on metal: on the first pic there’s an iron gate (far left), on the next it’s painted plywood (presumably replacing windows), rest is plaster. zinc sheets are rather contemporary and usually used for roofing, like everywhere, it’s common to build new warehouses/light factories with trapezoidal metal sheets, though. in the past, it was either steel girders with bricks or ferroconcrete for industrial buildings. yet actually, companies like Thyssen and Mannesmann worked on pre-fabricated family homes made out of metal parts after the war, however they never got into production – and nowadays they’d likely be too expensive to produce anyway…

and it’s indeed as kerouac implies: owners/buyers of listed buildings face quite severe conditions when restoring, however at times they’ll haggle and the council might give in just to save the building in general, at other times owners create fait accomplis in case they deem the fine more economic than saving details of the building…

about the mosque, there are two issues: first of all the political/religious one, as a lot of conservative and right-wing citizens objected to the mosque being built at all (and especially this size) – the debate was quite nasty at times, I can elaborate if you like. secondly, there’s now the usual debate between the architect and client about stuff (costs, quality, time, extras etc.) - with no-one knowing who really is to blame. it should be noted that it was the local architect’s office Böhm that won the competition, who are a well-known dynasty of architects (Dominikus, Gottfried, Peter & Paul Böhm) for building churches throughout the 20th century.

regards

[bixaorellana]

Nautiker, thank you so much for that very complete answer. It's wonderful to see pictures of a place, but absolutely fabulous to get the whole picture fleshed out by someone who's actually been there and is kind and patient enough to expound on it.

Jan 23, 2013 10:11:19 GMT nautiker said:

about the mosque, there are two issues: first of all the political/religious one, as a lot of conservative and right-wing citizens objected to the mosque being built at all (and especially this size) – the debate was quite nasty at times, I can elaborate if you like.

Of course I'd like ~~ please!

[Deleted]

I think it is the same debate in just about every West European country except Great Britain. Switzerland even had a referendum a couple of years ago in which minarets were banned.

[komsomol]

That is a great report! I like to see all of the old industrial areas.

[lugg]

Thank you Nautika what an enjoyable report, for me particularly as it has opened my eyes to another part of Europe I am completely unfamiliar with.

So many great photos and interesting text too, I was surprised to see lighthouses so far from the sea until I read your explanation.

[patricklondon]

I think it is the same debate in just about every West European country except Great Britain.

Well, in Britain it is and (as ever) it isn't.

On the one hand, we don't have a legal/political concept of Britishness (or rather, since it has a high component of "minding your own business", it isn't particularly prescriptive), but on the other, there are some barely-concealed "issues" when Muslims propose to build a mosque. Of course, it's always argued in the terms required for the law as it applies to local planning permissions (size in relation to nearby buildings, likely demand on local parking, noise, etc.), but it's quite clear that there's an underlying hostility in principle, as in one case near me, where there's a plan for a big mosque in one of our neighbouring boroughs. The letters to the local paper barely hide it, in expressing anxiety about the possibility of Muslim "triumphalism".

And it has to be said, it's not helped by another recent development. Last year a teenager in a neighbourhood with a large Muslim population was fined for putting stickers on lamp-posts proclaiming a "gay-free zone", and a couple of young men have just been arrested after posting a video of themselves on Youtube (will they ever learn?), telling people they thought to be gay to get out of what they called a Muslim area, telling young women to cover up, and taking alcohol off people, along the main road where there is the one mosque (AFAIK) where there is an amplified call to prayer (if not a minaret as such).

[Deleted]

Two blocks away from my place, the city is building a mosque cultural centre specialised in Islam ("Centre des cultures d'Islam" to be precise). Due to the separation of church and state, no government money (either national or municipal) can be spent to build a religious edifice, but if it is a cultural centre, no problem. So they are indeed building a cultural centre, but they are also building a big empty room in it that the local religious community can turn into a mosque use as it sees fit. There will be no minaret in any case and the use of loudspeakers in the street is forbidden in Paris, so we will not hear the call of the muezzin either.

[bjd]

In Toulouse too it was decided that a large mosque should be built, privately funded by the Muslim community. The only place provided is right beside an on-ramp to a highway, near where the chemical factory blew up in 2001. There was also a casino being built right nearby.

The location posed a few problems -- many said the proximity of the casino to a poor neighbourhood would encourage all these poor people to go gamble. Anyway, the casino has been up and running for a couple of years now -- there is even a large bus driving around the city picking people up to go there. The mosque on the other hand was held up because allegedly the imam absconded with the funds and it was not completed. So this large, domed building is still unfinished and unused -- it has been at least 4 years.

Correction -- how time flies -- it has been 7 years since the project got off the ground. The only donors allowed to contribute are Algeria and Kuwait. Libya under Kaddafi was rebuffed. And, it will be the biggest mosque in France.

[nautiker]

Indeed, to some extent it’s the usual debate.

At that very location the Turkish community already had a large mosque, inside an old factory (see pic: ).
So it was not about whether there could be built a mosque at all, it’s more about what patrick described as ‘fear of triumphalism’ – it seems most would be fine if muslims stuck to their current mosques: run-down buildings, disused factories (I know of a mosque in Hamburg that is/was located in a formerly parking garage) etc. hidden somewhere more or less out of sight, a self-confident demeanour is considered rather suspicious. In a survey back then, approx. a third of the Cologne population opposed against the construction of the new mosque, another third wanted a more humble appearance, the last third approved. The topic gave a newly founded local extreme right-wing party a major roll and they turned up with almost 5% (from scratch) at the next council election and established themselves afterwards. A citizen’s initiative against the mosque they kicked off failed due to a high number of invalid signatures, though…

The debate was further fueled by remarks from a respected German author who claimed that the integration of muslims into the German community had failed and that he considered the building a wrong sign. Another well known journalist/author suggested that in order to display their open-mindedness, the Turkish community should hold lectures reciting from Rushdie’s ‘Satanic Verses’ in their new rooms – as you can guess, both got the usual share in heated newspaper debate (nationwide), death threats from extremist muslims etc.etc.etc., just as they probably had expected.

There’s no general interdiction of minarets in Germany (though muezzin calls ‘of course’ are bared). It was debated whether the towers should be built smaller, yet the architect got his way. The building is founded on donations and sponsors alone. It should be noted that the similar sized mosque in Duisburg-Marxloh (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/DITIB-Merkez-Moschee) was planned and built within four years and without major fuss - which earned the building the title of ‘Miracle of Marxloh’ (well, they’re less catholic up there).

A final remark about the architecture: Though it is not exactly what I favour in contemporary architecture, I’m glad to see that they took a step forward, compared to the majority of mosques that stick and repeat the old blueprints over and over again (e.g. Duisburg). Considering what terrific and advanced builders the muslims had in the past, it’s a pity to see them doing so ordinary today.

Since there seems to be some interest on this board, I might try to attend the opening (sometime this year is prospected) and report back…

p.s. In yesterday’s paper was a major piece about the Helios area: Seems all sheds between the old factory (with the tower) and the Underground music club will be torn down by the end of this year to make room for new buildings, among others a branch of the Cologne university. This encompasses the halls from the 3rd pic (whitish building on the right) up to the 11th + 13th picture (all inside pics & the lower one of the graffiti pics)…

[patricklondon]

So they are indeed building a cultural centre, but they are also building a big empty room in it that the local religious community can turn into a mosque use as it sees fit.

Well, that's the thing, isn't it. Muslims can pray anywhere, so (for example) some big offices set aside a room as a prayer room. Right beside where I live, a converted shop is a Muslim community centre, which to all intents and purposes (other than an audible call to prayer, let alone a visible minaret) is (and is commonly referred to) as a mosque. What gets peoples phobias going is the sense of somehow "losing" space to an interest they feel excluded from.

But over the road from the mosque is a fine example of an entirely different version of that. About two years ago a young man died in an accident on his motorbike on that patch of road (entirely his fault, and it may be significant that we'd had no incidents of dangerous/noisy riding of motorbikes as used to have a lot of before then). Almost immediately, a group of teenagers, mostly girls, started leaving flowers, candles and other tributes outside and messages pasted on to) an empty building by the scene. And they're still doing it, although the building owners have finished work on it, and want to get on with letting it. Likewise, a lot of people nearby are tutting a bit about the sight. It's the sense of letting private interests claim ownership of public spaces that's pinging a nerve; but likewise, I suppose those girls will feel put upon if the council took action to clear it all away (however considerately and sensitively by normal standards).

But nothing happens (rumour has it because the young man's family are "old school" East End "faces" that no-one wants to get on the wrong side of, shall we say).

[bixaorellana]

Jan 25, 2013 9:06:22 GMT nautiker said:

There’s no general interdiction of minarets in Germany (though muezzin calls ‘of course’ are bared).

Yet church bells, by their very nature loud things with a specifically religious meaning, are allowed all over Europe, are they not?

[Deleted]

In France there are some villages that have banned the church bells from ringing.

[anshjain97]

Sorry, didn't see this before, this is a great thread- thanks for sharing!

[Deleted]

Ringing the bells in Berlin is restricted in time, especially on Sunday mornings

[lagatta]

In some places in Italy, I've heard them doing all the offices (calls to prayer), which beging at as annoying pre-dawn time as the Muslim ones...

[nautiker]

church bells vs. muezzin calls - indeed reverse nature: even if sometimes restricted, I don't know of any situation where bells were completely banned in Germany, whereas muslims have a hard time being allowed a call at friday at all (there are a very few communities, though, I've come to learn in the meantime). obviously it's portrayed as 'our' culture vs. 'theirs'.

for some reason I've lived close to churches throughout my life and quite like the sound of bells (actually wish our current one would start at six on weekdays instead of seven), though I still have to figure out some of the chimes.

hi ansh, glad you like. saw at a glance you've been posting some extensive reports yourself - hope to get around taking closer looks soon...