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Post by htmb on Feb 27, 2013 4:00:51 GMT
So, dearest darling Mark, Kerouac asked a lot of questions I had, but then promptly forgot. Thanks for that, Kerouac. What IS that place in the middle of the lake?
I'm trying to understand how the carvings might have been done on the monuments. Do you know if they were done in place, or perhaps done in separate panels?
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Post by onlymark on Feb 27, 2013 6:24:19 GMT
I am curious about photo #2 of reply 30. It looks like there is some sort of industrial creation of some of the 'sculpted' building features. That's fine with me, but do they churn out these building blocks? These are stamps for material, block printing stamps. Dip them in a dye and block print something like a bed cover. The actual way to use them escapes me but it is something like that. Photo 3 looks like some sort of building 'fail'.... Just an old one falling down I presume, note the blue wall to the right of the photo and the blue bottom of the next one (photo 4), as far as I know this signifies a house of the Brahmin class, the upper caste. ....photo 4 is extremely interesting, as though the owner wanted to try out every single available style on the same building. Certainly looks like a bit of a hotch potch, but must make sense to someone. Bear in mind the screens over the windows to the left and right aren’t wood, but carved from stone. Later on the beams in the passageway make me wonder as to the source of beams in the region. Are there any nearby exploitable forests or would this sort of item have to be brought from a great distance?I couldn’t exactly say where the wood was sourced but there is not an easy supply of it in the area – unless it is acacia wood, which is possible. Though wood is and was used a lot for cooking fires even though the dried animal dung pats are favourite due to the scarcity of wood in many areas. Obviously there are vast forests in India but if I was to go to the trouble of bringing something in from far away I’d want it to be straight and uniform, which those in the photos aren’t. Thus I tend to think it was reasonably local. I absolutely love the weird extravagance (mixed with totally ordinary features) of the room in #32. What does one pay for this sort of thing?This hotel, The Tokyo Palace Hotel, was quite a reasonable value for the standard. One night bed and breakfast was 800 INR (Indian rupees), which translates as 11.35 EUR. The pakora in #34 look very tempting, but I do know enough to fear the possible chilis in such an item. I would still like to try them but only if I also have unlimited beer. The following items are also quite interesting but also appear to require beer. I know that this can be a big problem when you are not in a beer area. Even in Pondicherry, I had to use the code word 'special tea' once or twice.Yep, they were quite hot, even for me. Beer and driving doesn’t go hand in hand though never mind the fact that I’m teetotal because I don’t like the taste of alcohol in any form. I had to ‘man up’ and tough it out until the burning sensation faded. Farther on, the lakeside place looks great. Were the monkeys under control or could they create unwanted mischief if you were not careful? The monkeys are rhesus monkeys and they are deemed to be the living representatives of the Hindu god Hanuman. Tradition calls for feeding monkeys on Tuesdays and Saturdays. They are not controlled but when things get really bad, as they have done in several cities, mainly Delhi, they are ‘rounded up’ and then released out in the wilds again. It is known for the locals to feed them one day and then complain they are being harassed by them and stealing things the next day. The simple expedient of teaching the monkeys the days of the week may alleviate this as long as they understand that for several days a week they will have to fend for themselves without resorting to stealing. There is plenty of garbage and waste food around. The market streets look great and yet I still cannot imagine what the people take home to put on their tables. I have never seen Indians eating grapes, yet they seem very plentiful.Grapes are in the usual place in the home – in a bowl on the table to pick at as you pass. The other fruit is used, again as expected, after a meal as I can’t really recall any dishes that would use fruit in a main course(?). Not particularly in northern India anyway, except lemon juice. The veg, say, potato, cauliflower, onion, tomato, zucchini and peas would form the basis of most curries, the carrots, radish, onion, cucumber, tomato would be the ‘side salad’. I know you know this but in case anyone else is interested. The view from the Monsoon Palace is a bit less impressive than I had hopedYou had to be there. ....but what is that place in the middle of the lake?If we look at post 50, the first place in the lake, the one with trees, is called Nehru Garden. A nice quiet four and a half acres for a walk round, can be reached by boat and did have an overpriced floating restaurant. But I think you mean the third photo, the building with no greenery. You’ve seen Octopussy? Must have been many years ago. It’s in that. It’s the Lake Palace Hotel (now the Taj Lake Palace). Very posh, very nice, very expensive, good meals – www.tajhotels.com/Luxury/Grand-Palaces-And-Iconic-Hotels/Taj-Lake-Palace-Udaipur/Overview.htmlEvery time I brought a group to Udaipur we’d get our best clothes on and take the boat across to it for dinner. Live for an evening how the other half live. Your cheap meal away from the luxury hotel does appear to be a bit grim....One of the problems is the lack of colour of a lot of the variations of food. It’s all a bit brown/beige with the odd exception. Tastes good though. htmb - I'm trying to understand how the carvings might have been done on the monuments. Do you know if they were done in place, or perhaps done in separate panels. Good question. The short answer is I don’t know for sure. The temples at Khajaraho are all made of sandstone, which is relatively easy to carve. They didn’t use any form or cement/mortar but used joints to connect them and it is all held in place by the weight of them. The easy way to make something is to make a frame or a brick building, carve the panels on the ground and attach them to the frame – but these weren’t done like that, the ‘panels’ are proper blocks of stone. I suspect they may have been carved in situ to some grand design but with some organisation I can’t see why they weren’t carved beforehand on the ground and placed in their respective positions. Things like the temples at Ellora – Were carved out of one piece of rock, in this case basalt, and – “The Kailash Temple is notable for its vertical excavation—carvers started at the top of the original rock, and excavated downward. The traditional methods were rigidly followed by the master architect which could not have been achieved by excavating from the front.” My opinion is that the rough shape was carved out, placed into the temple and then carved to a final finish in Khajaraho.
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Post by auntieannie on Mar 2, 2013 13:01:30 GMT
Mark, did you ever go to Belur & Halebid(u) in Karnataka? The carvings there aren't bad either.
As for the fiery chillies in food, I find that yoghurt and the vinegar in chutneys and pickles helps a lot to tame them. No need for beer or to man up. Although I did have to "woman up" in Hassan (where I was staying in order to visit Belur, Halebid and Shravanabelagola) as the concoction I was served was just too much. not sure a beer would have helped there either!
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Post by onlymark on Mar 2, 2013 14:29:36 GMT
Not been there Annie. I'll check it out next time. I'd usually follow the coast down from Goa area and cut inland to see Mysore and Ooty and then drop back down to the coast again to the bottom of India. I certainly appreciate there are numerous things I never saw.
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Post by auntieannie on Mar 2, 2013 15:02:41 GMT
oooh! I have the best souvenir of a christmas time spent in Kanniya Kumari. I am certain I haven't seen everything in that area (let alone the whole of India). Have you gone up the Tamil Nadu coast, Mark?
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Post by onlymark on Mar 2, 2013 17:18:16 GMT
Yes - ish. The route I would normally take when doing the expedition stuff was down the left side from Bombay/Mumbai to the bottom at Kanyakumari than back up the right side to Madras/Chennai where the trip would finish. I obviously didn't visit every town/site/sight though. Then a new trip would go the other way. The route to Bombay actually started in Kathmandu and would wend its way via the main places, and a few smaller ones, via Delhi to there. So it'd start in Nepal, go to Delhi, down to Bombay and then around the bottom, finish in Madras - then I'd change groups and go back again. I'd do a 'season' of these trips (so back to back), about six in all and then do others at other times of year from Kathmandu across India via Delhi but then north to Amritsar and into Pakistan. These ended in London where I'd have a week or two preparing to go all the way back again. These longer trips also sometimes diverted down through Syria and Jordan into Egypt, then back north again to follow the previous route through Turkey, Iran, Pakistan and India to Nepal. I did the London - Nepal trip and reverse about fourteen times, I think. Round India for the other trips solely in India as above (starting or finishing in Nepal though) - I did three seasons, so about eighteen times - maybe give or take a few. I can't remember now for sure.
I've finished bragging now. Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.
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Post by onlymark on Mar 3, 2013 12:32:36 GMT
Camping amongst the temples at Orchha, 1995 -
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Post by auntieannie on Mar 3, 2013 14:09:52 GMT
glad you are not allowed to do this anymore.
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Post by onlymark on Mar 3, 2013 16:57:00 GMT
.........spoilsport......
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2013 20:09:27 GMT
glad you are not allowed to do this anymore. I at first thought the same thing but then I thought about it again and how wonderful it was in the days where one could stop and camp or eat or whatever, wherever you wanted, not just in India but also in Europe. Naturally, with the huge development of tourism, it is out of the question now, but nobody was bothering anybody in the old days. If you parked right in front of a castle or a pile of ruins, you were spoiling nobody's enjoyment because nobody else was there.
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Post by auntieannie on Mar 3, 2013 21:23:39 GMT
thing is ... if we were all respectful and caring ... it would be feasible to let people do what they felt like doing wherever they wanted to... unfortunately it is not the case and those who are respectful and caring are paying the price of the reduction of their freedom because of those who are not.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2013 21:32:01 GMT
That is a point that I find infuriating both regarding Stonehenge and Carnac.
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Post by auntieannie on Mar 3, 2013 23:41:14 GMT
well... there are also some commercial interests in the balance, for sure...
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Post by onlymark on Mar 4, 2013 4:34:31 GMT
What isn't seen on any of those photos of Orchha are the two big hotel complexes, the entrance of one being near to where I would have stood to take the last old photo. Part of me understands the need for protection of important historical sites yet part of me compares the experience when it is protected akin to going to a zoo to see animals rather than being amongst them. It is a completely different experience and understanding to look from afar as it is to become immersed.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2013 12:40:17 GMT
I want to thank you again Mark for the intelligent and comprehensive report you took the time to share with us. I'm also very sorry that you are listed as a guest and hope that you come back and join us. I've enjoyed your posts over the years very much and your valuable contributions to this forum.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 12, 2013 16:09:07 GMT
And thank you, Casimira, for saying what I was thinking and should have said.
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Post by bjd on Mar 12, 2013 16:16:12 GMT
What Casi and Bixa said.
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Post by mich64 on Mar 12, 2013 22:05:12 GMT
What casi, bixa and bjd said...
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Post by htmb on Mar 12, 2013 23:38:31 GMT
I have also enjoyed reading your reports, mark, and have certainly increased my knowledge of the world through your interesting posts.
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Post by mossie on Mar 13, 2013 8:04:12 GMT
Yes, don't desert us Mark, you bring another dimension to the site.
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Post by tod2 on Mar 13, 2013 9:36:24 GMT
I have enjoyed all your photo-essays on the Middle East and although I am not keen on India it has been an enlightening experience to see a country I will never visit. You have brought it all to my doorstep and it has been a wonderful report. Hope to see you 'back in the saddle again' ;D
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Post by anshjain97 on Mar 13, 2013 11:41:44 GMT
As above!
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Post by lola on Mar 16, 2013 0:52:25 GMT
This is a great report.
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Post by lola on Mar 16, 2013 0:54:58 GMT
P.S. We'll beg if you want.
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Post by nycgirl on Mar 18, 2013 1:34:28 GMT
Looks like you had a fun trip. I love your photos, especially the ones of women in their vibrant saris and of the step wells. As for the figures on that temple, oh my. I didn't read the comments, but did anyone else notice the swastikas in the last photo of #45? I only recently learned that it the swastika is a Hindu symbol and was also used by other ancient civilizations. Of course, I can't help but think of Nazis first when I see one and all other connotations second. Those Nazis spoiled everything.
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Post by auntieannie on Mar 23, 2013 17:28:46 GMT
NYCG, the NAZI swastika goes the other way around from its Hindu original.
The Hindu swastika symbolises life renewing itself (in short) and therefore the nazis predicted their own demise by turning it around. Well.. that's a very short and vague explanation. Sorry must go now but I am sure you can find lots of really interesting info online about that.
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 28, 2013 18:27:33 GMT
Your kind words have been pointed out to me and I thank you.
For now I will remain away from this forum but continue posting on the Meeting Pot unmolested. Voltaire was supposed to have said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" This is true in that the member who is the cause has every right to say what the member wants even though I grossly disagree with the personal fabrications the member posted. I disagree so strongly, and as the member has as much right to be here as I have, it is prudent for me to stay away rather than be subject to more of what the member seems to believe the truth to be.
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Post by lola on Mar 28, 2013 21:35:22 GMT
?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2013 22:56:00 GMT
Don't worry about it, lola. Mark is just telling us that he is not as strong a man as he appears to be (we rarely are). If he were able to ignore a presence here that annoys him, he could happily continue to post all of his fascinating stuff.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 29, 2013 2:26:50 GMT
Mark, thank you for having the graciousness to come by and explain your absence. I am most sorry that your decision is to remain away for the time being, although I understand & respect your reasons. Fingers crossed that one day you'll sail back into this port.
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