New neighbor nightmare!

[gringalais]

Some annoying new neighbors moved in across the street.

First of all they have 2 dogs that they leave in the yard all the time and they bark constantly. They don't ever seem to do anything to stop it. We have 3 dogs, yeah, they bark at times, but we are aware of it and quiet them down. The puppy spends most time in the yard, but if she doesn't quiet down when we tell her, we bring her inside or put her in the back yard where she generally doesn't bark. When we leave the house, we put her in the back and the other 2 dogs in the house. They also let the dogs run loose in the street. It is a closed-off dead-end street, so the dogs aren't in much danger of being hit, but when they so ALL the dogs on the street go crazy barking.

They have 2 kids. They also let the kids run free-range in the street, yelling the whole time. I work from home and it is really annoying to listen to, especially since I work from home, and they always seem to be in front of my house, sometimes with the dogs too. The van that brings them home from school also parks right in front of my house and honks the horn various times, which gets my dogs and theirs barking again. There really is no need to honk the horn like that. There is a huge plaza about 2 blocks away where their parents could take them and they could run around and scream to their hearts' content, but it appears that would be too much work for the parents, easier to sit inside watching TV and let the kids roam.

All the increased noise is really getting to me, I need peace and quiet to concentrate on my work and keep my sanity.

I guess if it keeps up, I need to say something, but I hate doing that with people I don't know. My neighbor is also annoyed about their dogs. She and her husband have dogs, but like us, they do their best to minimize the barking. There are some anti-dog neighbors and she is afraid that if the new neighbors' dogs continue to be such a nuisance, other neighbors might start to make a stink about everyone's dogs.

I can't wait for when we can buy a house in the country and have some space between us and the neighbors.

[Deleted]

In the meantime, you have a chance to become the "cranky witch across the street" and scare their children (and dogs).

[spindrift]

Poor you. What a dilemma....

[happytraveller]

Oh bugger ! Hope you'll find a new home soon !

[Deleted]

Wow! Sorry to hear this. Always one of my secret dreads when a property nearby comes up for lease. I will make a couple suggestions that have worked for me in the past. You mentioned some other neighbors who were equally annoyed. Ally yourself with them,always good to have support so you're not "the lone nut ". Compose a nice, rational letter, maybe even welcome them to the neighborhood kind of thing, not too overboard. Express your concerns for the safety and well being of the animals ("this is a busy street,so and so had a cat or dog hit" that kind of thing) Indicate your work schedule and how important it is ,at one time my husband worked nights so that was good to throw in.
Most people don't respond well when they perceive they're being critisicized or attacked,they just shut down and don't hear anything but the negative.
Anyway,just a suggestion,hope it works out.
Oh, try and pick a time of day when you think they might be sober and possibly more receptive. If you go over there angry and they're loaded,usually not too productive.

[Deleted]

You know I'm thinking, you did not ask for advice necessarily when posting this thread so forgive me if I came on too strong in my initial reply. I need to learn to curb my enthusiasm so to speak. "Older" posters undoubtedly recognize this in neophytes.
Pardon.

[gringalais]

No problem, casimira, my neighbor was also thinking of doing something like that. I know the woman that lives next door is also not thrilled, she made a comment to that effect at our wedding party.

Maybe they are just oblivious to the fact that the houses and yards are small and noise carries as a restult. The other possibility is that they are just to lazy to bother dealing with either their kids or dogs. We went to have dinner at some friends' house last night and ended up getting back at 6 am. There were kids running out in the street from 10 am on, not fun.

[Deleted]

Errr.... isn't 10am a normal time for kids to be running about?

[gringalais]

I have no idea. It is common for people here, even some with kids, to stay up pretty late on a Saturday and wake up late on Sunday, so 10 is kind of early.

I guess my main annoyance is just that we do our best to minimize the noise from our dogs. We like having them, but realize that not everyone likes dogs or wants to hear them barking. We don't even like too much barking. But these people are unleashing the annoyance of dogs and kids on the rest of the neighbors and we aren't the only neighbors bothered. If the kids are up at 10, keep them in the house or take them to one of the many parks. There is one plaza 2 blocks away, another with playground equipment 3 blocks away and a huge park that is less than a 10-minute drive and even has farm animals, a big slide, hiking trails, etc.

It seems lazy to me because they just send the kids and sometimes the dogs out into the street and don't even seem to supervise them at all.

I guess part of the problem is that the house is too small for 4 people and 2 dogs so they turn the street into their yard too. We are a bit cramped with only 2 people plus the pets. I have been in that house when other people lived there, and it is smaller than ours. The yard is smaller than our small yard too.

[spindrift]

There's nothing worse than kids and dogs running in the streets and making noise. This isn't how refined people behave. I wouldn't tolerate it in my street and neither would anyone else who lives near me.

[missalaska]

Aww I understand - nearly everyone in our street has dogs - most are ok and pretty quiet most of the time. But there are 2 excessively loud dogs that live in the house down the street. They set each other off, one low pitched one high pitched f***, it sounds like a donkey. Sometimes I stand at my door and shout shut up. Nearly everyone else makes an effort to curb their dogs barking etc, but not them, I don't know why. They seem like ok people - got a note through the door for the daughter's 21st party 'expect some noise' etc.

[Kimby]

Gringa, you might try going over there and after trying to sound sincere when you say "welcome to the neighborhood" then say something like "I thought you might want to know that some of the neighbors are talking about calling the authorities about the noise coming from your dogs. I wouldn't want that to happen, so I thought I'd give you a heads-up." You can get the message across without alienating them. (This worked with a guy who played drums on his deck every day in my neighborhood.)

One thing that has saved many people's sanity from other people's dog noise is an ultrasonic device that plugs into your outlet and doesn't require any kind of collar. It's called something like "Barker Breaker". When a dog barks within range it emits an unpleasant noise that dogs can hear but people can't. Stops them in their tracks, sometimes to the dismay of their passive-aggressive owners who secretly enjoy harassing their neighbors with dog noise!

Good luck!

[Deleted]

I have gathered from this thread that this is a poor family living in very cramped quarters. I also read that it is normal to cavort until all hours on the weekend and that if children are up and about at 10 am, it is abnormal.

This information is making me feel uncomfortable. Is there a positive way to deal with the situation?

[gringalais]

Not poor. This is an expensive part of town, so I guess it is all they could afford to be in a desireable area. It appears they bought the house, they aren't renting, because we often check out listings of houses for sale online and saw that exact house listed. It is definitely more affordable than almost anything else in the area, because it is small and has a small yard.

I don't know if they were cavorting until late. For people I hang out with, staying out pretty late is normal. Friends that have kids usually invite us over to their house so they can put the kid to bed, but they stay up until late as well. I said I didn't know if 10 am is normal time or not.

[Deleted]

I don't know if they were cavorting until late

I may be mistaken but I don't think that Kerouac is speaking about your neighbors.

I agree that people shouldn't let their dogs run loose in the streets, but for the kids.. Kids are kids. It's vital for a kid to run and make noise.

If there's one think that I like in my neighborhood, an housing project in the outskirt of town you wouldn't want to live in, it's all these kids playing, running, screaming.. always bring a smile on my face when I hear them.

[Jazz]

Well, you are living in a neighborhood and there really isn't a set of rules. I have lived on my street for 25 years and have gone through it ALL. My ideas are not necessarily my neighbors' ideas. You are lucky, my next door neighbor's kids are out and about and 'being exuberant' from 8 AM on, each day of the week (believe me, I noticed, especially when I got home from work at 3AM and needed to sleep)...on the other side, the teenage son blasts his music...a yappy dog down the street gets all the dogs in a chorus...etc.etc. Over time, it all seems to ebb and flow.

This is what I did if the noise drive me insane...The personal approach seemed to work the best. I had the parents (and the kids) over to my garden for lunch and drinks and 'lightheartedly' mentioned my 'problem'. I use 'problem' lightly, because, like Askar, although I don't have children, I love to hear them laugh and scream as as they play. They do need this.

I spoke to the teenage son next door and said, 'Your music is too loud and I am afraid that my tenants will leave if you don't deal with this. I love my tenants and I don't want them to go, I can't afford for them to go."

One day, I met the lady who owned the yappy dog in the park and we had a 'dog talk', I commiserated with her .(falsely agreeing that my dear, sweet, elegant, shy and quiet standard poodle had issues as well and that we needed to deal with it for the good of the neighborhood.)

They all listened and it was much better, not perfect, but much better. Essentially, I have quiet years and not so quiet years. The only way to resolve it is to talk to the people who are upsetting you.

[gringalais]

Well, Askar, I am not saying that kids don't need to run around and yell, just that there are appropriate and not appropriate places to do it. As I mentioned, there are plenty of neaby places the mom could take the kids, and even the dogs, where they could blow off steam without being a nuisance to everyone who lives near them. From the looks of it, the mom doesn't work outside the home, so you'd think she could find the time to take them to a playground or park.

The dogs have been a bit better the last day or so. They seem to be inside more. I am wondering if someone else complained to them. So, that is at least an improvement.

[Aussielover]

gringalais, I sympathise - I really do. We had neighbours down at the end of the street, who let their kids and dogs run around unsupervised. Sadly, one of the dogs got hit by a car and died, and the other was poisoned by a neighbour who got sick of the dog coming into his yard. Don't think that a house in the country will solve this issue. In some ways, I think it's worse, because people don't think that they have to obey leash laws and they think that having a house in a rural community means that they and their kids can run amok. Talking to this family would have been useless. They felt they "owned" the place, since they'd lived there for several years. They had constant run-ins with neighbours, and the wife's mouthiness usually meant that people learned to leave them alone or get ready for a nasty confrontation.

You can try the good neighbour approach, but don't be too disappointed if it doesn't work. Are there noise ordinances or leash laws in your neighbourhood? Might be best to let the local council deal with it. That's what they're there for.

[hwinpp]

I wouldn't mind the kids. Buy an air gun for the dogs.

The night before last my neighbours started drilling holes in the wall at 9pm. I don't know them but after 15 minutes I went out onto the balcony and started swearing loudly. The drilling stopped. Next morning we smiled at each other like on each and every other day. No probs.

[gyro]

"There's nothing worse than kids and dogs running in the streets and making noise. This isn't how refined people behave"

It's EXACTLY how kids behave.

[gringalais]

Actually, the dogs I find less annoying than the kids, but that's just me. The dogs are becoming less of a problem. In fact, I haven't seen the bigger dog for a few days, which has me wondering what happened to it. The smaller dog barks less now that the other dog isn't around.

The kids, on the other hand, are getting worse. For privacy, we have the gate to the house covered with particle board, but where the hinges are there is a small open space. The kids from across the street were sticking their hands through that part, trying to bother my big mean cat (the one that goes outside). I told them not to do that, because he would scratch or bite them. It is actually possible, the cat is not too friendly, and of course it would be made to be our fault even if the kids were bothering the cat.

Two other families that have small kids, but who were not a nuisance decided they liked the idea of free range kids, so now there are four of them out there every day for 4-5 hours. I heard a dog barking a lot and went out to the street to see what it was and it turns out the 2 new kids were taunting a pit bull by putting their hands under the gate. Another neighbor happened to be walking by and told them they shouldn't do that. If they are doing stuff like that, I really don't think they should be out there unsupervised.

The problem is what to do. It is more acceptable to complain about a dog and there are leash laws that back me up for having them loose. However, saying something about the kids would not be well received, especially since we don't have kids. I would then be tagged the evil kid hater and they probably wouldn't change their behavior. Plus now with the two other kids out there, we'd have to deal with 3 families. My husband got off work early yesterday and couldn't believe how loud they were. I think he may have thought I was exaggerating, but not anymore.

I am actually considering going to Starbucks where there is WiFi to work in the afternoons, but it annoys me that I should feel forced out of my own house.


Aussie - The place in the country where we want to move to would be better because we'd have a lot of about 2,000-5,000 square meters and the lots have fences or walls around them, so we would have our land to ourselves. There are leash laws here, but my neighbor and I did not have much luck having them enforced when another neighbor was letting her dog run loose. You have to call municipal security and they have to see the dog loose to issue a citation. They take forever to arrive, and the dog is usually back in its yard by then. One time I thought we finally had her because the dog was out for 2 hours, but due to a shift change, my call got lost in the shuffle. In this case the dog was an actual danger. it had killed several cats, tried to attack my dogs, bit someone and even got into my yard once when I had first moved to the house and the latch on the gate was not working well.

[Kimby]

Poor gringa! Can you tell the neighbors that you are a newlywed (and therefore not getting much sleep) and that you are afraid your husband will not want to have children if he sees the wild ones running amok in your neighborhood? Even if you don't plan on kids maybe the neighbors will help in this conspiracy to get you some of your own. (This plot won't work if you are past menopause, however.)

Or if your husband is willing to be the "bad cop" you could play "bad cop good cop" with the offending neighbors: tell them your husband is grumbling about calling social services about the unsupervised kids taunting pit bulls, etc, and you don't want to see their children taken into protective custody, so you just had to let them know before anyone did anything drastic...

[Deleted]

My recommendation is to make friends with the kids. Invite them for cookies or something. If they think you are a nice person, they will listen better if you mention that sometimes they make too much noise.

[gringalais]

Actually, Kerouac, I think I like the scaring them suggestion from your first post better. Anyone have creative ideas ?

[Deleted]

Oh, we know that you're much too nice to scare them.

[rikita]

Mar 16, 2009 21:07:25 GMT kerouac2 said:

I also read that it is normal to cavort until all hours on the weekend and that if children are up and about at 10 am, it is abnormal.

i would say that is a cultural thing... in chile and other south american countries indeed i saw children often being up until very late, and sleeping in more. just because here everyone thinks that it is essential to go to bed early and get up early to be considered a good person this isn't necessarily the case everywhere...


but other than that - i actually like the idea of kids playing unsupervised. city kids these days get much too little unsupervised time, often. like, most kids spend the day in daycare or school, under supervision, and then they are at home, if they are lucky their parents take them to the playground (supervising them). the only time they aren't watched is maybe in their rooms, but that just isn't the same thing...

i can understand the noise being annoying (though i also tend to not mind loud kids that much... barking dogs would annoy me, personally, much more)... on the other hand, you can't lock kids in because of that. and i guess your situation, working from home, is still more the exception than the rule...

one question - how old are the children?

[gyro]

I agree, Rik's. I think there's a gulf between those that have kids and those that don't. Nobody, by the way, is 'right'. It's all opinion ..

[Deleted]

Two other families that have small kids, but who were not a nuisance decided they liked the idea of free range kids

I like the idea of "free range kids" too.

[Aussielover]

Yikes, gringalais, that sounds like the proverbial nightmare!

We had problems with neighborhood kids coming onto our property and running around the lawn and jumping off the veranda. I work from home most days, so the noise is definitely a problem. Not only that, as a home owner, we're liable if one of the kids gets hurt on our property. When I'd go out to tell them not to play on my lawn and veranda, the little buggers would run away. As soon as I went back inside, they were back!

It took another neighbor, who witnessed the events, to say something to their mothers, along the line of "I know the people in that house and they don't want the liability of your kids jumping off their veranda." I think the mothers were embarrassed and the kids haven't been back. Thank goodness!

[rikita]

well not wanting kids to come onto your property and especially your house i can definitely understand, and in such a case i would definitely speak to the parents... even children have to learn that some things aren't allowed... if they are on public space though, or in their own garden, or the garden of someone who allows it, it is a different matter...