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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 0:51:16 GMT
Of course, this comes in the wake of the terrible news from Cairns, Australia that eight children were murdered this week. Their mother has been arrested on suspicion of the crime. www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/dec/19/at-least-seven-children-killed-in-mass-stabbing-in-cairnsWhat we know is that the mother, 37, is in hospital with stab wounds. The children ranged in age from 18 months to 15 years, and that they were discovered by their 20 year old brother. The family came from Erub Island in the Torres Strait and lived in low-cost housing. The children had three different fathers. This is a terrible, terrible loss, but not the first time that mothers have slaughtered their families and then failed at suicide. I have to believe that this comes from a truly primal place in the psyche. Depression, despair and (sometimes) poverty are often contributing factors. Regretfully, it reminds me of female animals who will eat their own young under duress or when threatened. This saddens me greatly, but it won't be the last time, I'm afraid.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 6:09:45 GMT
At the office, whenever there was one of those 'toddler wandered away and drowned in the canal' or 'baby missing' affairs in the news, I would automatically say "the mother did it," which would provoke the ire of my female colleagues, who would just as automatically refuse to believe that such a thing was possible. 95% of the time, I was right.
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Post by bjd on Dec 20, 2014 9:06:12 GMT
From the Guardian article:
One family friend told Guardian Australia that the crime had left three fathers mourning their children. One of those men, who lost four children, was “a mess” and had taken refuge in the emotional support of his -parents and sister, the friend said.
So where were all these fathers? Was it only up to the woman to raise all these kids?
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Post by onlyMark on Dec 20, 2014 10:40:37 GMT
Maybe the Courts ought to grant custody to fathers more often rather than the default position of the mother? Maybe Fathers For Justice have a point? Maybe many fathers would welcome raising the kids and wish to do so, but the authorities are generally against them doing so? Maybe in a lot of cases, but granted not every one, the mothers used the system to restrict access? Maybe the system is sexist and works against males who do want to raise and be involved with the kids?
If something goes wrong one can't cry 'where are the fathers' when so much can conspire against them when the system wants the mothers to raise them. The system can't have their cake and eat it. Just a thought.
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Post by bjd on Dec 20, 2014 13:31:14 GMT
I agree with you, Mark, that fathers are rarely favoured when there are legal decisions about child care.
However, in this case, there were 3 different fathers involved, and none of them seems to have been present, so I find it rather hypocritical that the guy is seeking emotional support from his parents and sister. Maybe some support of the mother and children would have helped earlier and prevented this from happening.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 15:05:35 GMT
Oh dear, I didn't mean to stir up that kettle of fish. No one is denying that there are cases where awarding the mothers sole custody is completely wrong, but in some cases, no one in the family is capable of handling the responsibility.
Anyway, I don't think this was a custody issue, it seems there were no legal ties between the children's mother and the fathers. As often happens in disadvantaged communities, out-of-wedlock births (now there is an archaic term) and siblings with multiple fathers are common and the norm.
Apparently, the mother "found God" in the weeks before the murders.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 15:20:19 GMT
I have worked with a fair number of mentally ill patients who "found god" and in many instances just prior to acting out some violent behavior either upon themselves or others, or both, have testified that it was "god" that told them to do it. Command hallucinations in the form of "voices in the head"are very common. This may well be the case with this woman.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 16:48:27 GMT
I simply have a hard time imagining having eight children. Original reports had the mother as 34, her oldest child as 20. As it is, she must have been first pregnant at 16 and basically never stopped.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 17:44:21 GMT
I have 3 male friends who would have been thrilled to be awarded custody of their children.
By the same token, I think it is highly likely that if ever men are involved totally equally in the care of children (I doubt that it will ever happen because there is that little 'childbirth' detail to take into consideration.), there will be just as many male childkillers as female childkillers in such situations.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 17:52:14 GMT
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Post by patricklondon on Dec 20, 2014 20:58:24 GMT
By the same token, I think it is highly likely that if ever men are involved totally equally in the care of children (I doubt that it will ever happen because there is that little 'childbirth' detail to take into consideration.), there will be just as many male childkillers as female childkillers in such situations. I have no idea of the statistics, but I can think of two or three recent cases in the UK where an estranged/separated/divorced father has killed both mother and child(ren) - and often it's not that there's been a lack of warning signs. My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 21:46:35 GMT
I think trying to compare the statistics, well, that way madness lies.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 20, 2014 23:56:15 GMT
Indeed, every single case seems to be uncomfortably unique. If it were just a case of "all naughty and whining two year olds are invariably killed by one or the other parent" it would all be much simpler ( ). But everybody has a totally different breaking point, and often it is not even related to the child at all, who ends up being collateral damage.
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Post by lagatta on Dec 21, 2014 1:10:40 GMT
There are many male childkillers. But they typically off the old lady as well. My first thought on the scant report on the horrific crime was that it was the mum, as if it were the dad (or one of the dads) he'd have killed her too.
Unlike Kerouac's female colleagues, I have no trouble believing it was the mum.
As for Fathers for Justice, that is not the problem with them. They certainly have a case about family law, but alas they are very "macho" in their approach to redress. I think awarding custody by default to the mum is another form of sexual stereotyping.
I also thought it was probably a drama in a dispossessed Indigenous community. These are terrible tragedies, and the fruit of other tragedies.
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Post by patricklondon on Dec 21, 2014 9:16:03 GMT
I think trying to compare the statistics, well, that way madness lies. Absolutely. It wouldn't tell us anything worthwhile, anyway. My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
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