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Post by questa on Oct 2, 2015 0:01:02 GMT
Thank you for acknowledging that, pariswat. Well and truly involved in Vietnam which split our country. Then Gulf War, Iraq, Afghanistan, various "peace keeping forces" East Timor and Pacific upheavals and now bombing Syria. Only Vietnam used conscripts, chosen by a lottery to go and fight. Refugees from the displaced persons' camps in Europe after WW2 built so much of this country. The huge infrastructure of dams and railways could not have been achieved without them and their skills.
The generation before the "baby-boomers" is known here as "the builders".
Now a disproportionate number of our top scientists, medical and professional people are Australians with Indian, Chinese and Vietnamese names.
So the wheel turns.
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 2, 2015 22:39:04 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 3, 2015 4:09:23 GMT
Yes, that subject comes up regularly. However, Israel refuses to communicate about the number of people leaving Israel and the two groups that don't fit in and which often return home -- the French and the Russians. More than 30% of the French return to France after a year or two. The French of Israel are concentrated mostly in just three cities -- Netanya, Ashdod and Har Homa -- where they can continue with the French lifestyle without having to learn Hebrew. Long-established Israelis absolutely despise them, which is another reason that they leave. A number of rabbis have suggested that these people should emigrate to Canada rather than Israel if they fear for their security in France.
Apparently, it takes more than a free one way ticket and a six-month stipend to create good Israelis.
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Post by whatagain on Oct 3, 2015 19:11:31 GMT
huhu ! I was also quite surprised that a lot of people were speaking french in Netanya...
and where is netanya ? 'Netanya où ?' -> at the Knesset (I'm not totally normal, and it is not from yesterday - (sadate ...)).
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 4, 2015 0:28:04 GMT
Thanks for the answer, Kerouac. French people upping & moving to Israel with little prior knowledge of that country seems way too radical & a recipe for disaster.
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Post by chexbres on Oct 4, 2015 15:57:29 GMT
Brace yourselves - Rant Alert!
Not everyone is willing to die for someone else's political beliefs, and not everyone can support a family when their country has been blasted to smithereens and there is no way to produce food or water. It cannot be an easy choice to leave your home and go into the unknown, unless the alternative is certain death. I have great respect and support for anyone fleeing war or famine in a country run by a mad dictator or war criminal. Most nations began this way, after all.
The refugees (from all countries) who have arrived in France by any possible means are being sorted into "Economic refugees" and "Asylum seekers from countries at war", while they spend time living in tents on the street. When room becomes available, they are moved into vacant buildings, so at least they don't have to deal with the weather. Then, they will be matched with permanent housing, schools and hopefully employment. This being France, all this background investigation takes a long time - some will be allowed to remain, some will be sent to another country which can accept them. There is a lot of uproar about refugees taking good jobs from qualified French people, but the jobs available would most likely be menial labor, so nothing a qualified French person would accept.
The RefugeeAirBnB idea - though AirBnB is not involved at all - is interesting, and all the people involved are carefully screened before anyone is placed. I wish I could take in a family, but this isn't possible, so I've been donating requested items to the collection point in my arrondissement, as are a number of my neighbors.
Since I remember all too well being homeless during several months following Hurricane Katrina, and the absolute lack of local and federal government support during the years that followed, I do not advocate giving cash to any charitable organizations, including the Red Cross. While charitable donations filled someone's pocket, we were forgotten, ignored and left to fend for ourselves while living in the greatest country on earth. Ten years later, our city has still not been repaired, and too many residents have simply become invisible in the eyes of the government. I sold everything I owned and arrived in France shortly after Katrina - in my mind, I was a political refugee, not simply a retired person looking for a nicer place to live.
Officially off my soapbox, now. All politics aside - if you can donate, please do.
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 4, 2015 16:08:07 GMT
Brava, Chexbres! The only thing I would change about your message is the part where you say "including the Red Cross". I'd change including to especially. A question, please: you say don't give cash to charitable organizations, but also say "if you can donate, please do". I'd love suggestions of how to donate effectively. Google had a thing going wherein they'd match donations dollar for dollar up to a certain point, but that's over*. I cannot see any viable way for me to donate goods from where I am, but do you know a good place to donate where the money will truly help those for whom it's intended? * onetoday.google.com/page/refugeerelief
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Post by Deleted on Oct 4, 2015 16:59:51 GMT
I confess that I donate money, but only to organisations in which I place a certain amount of trust and which annually publish their "percentages" -- aid going to the needy, administrative costs, advertising expenses... If less than 80% of the money is going to the needy, I do not contribute.
I should also confess that my donations are a bit selfish as well. For aid organisations in France, you deduct 75% of the contribution from your income tax (obviously there is a ceiling). So if you donate 100 euros, it really only costs you 25 euros. People like Chexbres who don't pay French taxes cannot benefit from this, so it is much better in those cases to buy necessary things and give them to the organisations.
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Post by whatagain on Oct 4, 2015 20:18:19 GMT
We (still) deduct 100% in Belgium. I don't know if there is a ceiling. If ther is I have not yet unfortunately reached it.
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Post by chexbres on Oct 4, 2015 21:06:36 GMT
Hi Bixa - I agree with "especially"! Sorry, I meant anyone who's in Paris could check online for where and what to donate. Unfortunately, things aren't extremely well-organized at the moment, but this is improving. Emmaus is a reputable charity organization and they are handling the sorting and dissemination of clothing and personal items for the refugees. Here's the info on how to contribute money, and you can specify which refugees you're supporting: www.emmaus-solidarite.org/faire-un-don/Failing that, if anyone wants to send me the money, I'd be more than happy to go shopping and donate in your behalf. I ended up with a huge pile of clothing, backpacks, blankets and personal items for around 200 euros. Just send a PM and we can figure out the logistics - I think kerouac, ParisWat, htmb and Bixa would vouch for me.
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Post by rikita on Oct 4, 2015 22:10:21 GMT
the thing with donating things, though, is that you have to know what is needed - here, a lot of organizations are putting out lists of "please don't donate this", because they get too much of one thing, and not much of the other, which is why i also prefer donating money: they themselves know better what is needed. and i in the end went with donating to a big, international organisation rather than a local one, because of my company promising to match donations done through a specific site, so that twice as much money arrived. the other thing is, that from what i read it is better to not give too exact specifications of what the money is for, as a lot of organisations end up having more than needed for one thing, but end up having less than usual and much less than needed for other things (like, apart from the refugees, when there is a catastrophe somewhere, and everyone donates for that, but then might not donate for people that are suffering not due to a one-time catastrophe but all the time). as for the organisations, i suppose there is a certain amount of research one can (and should) do, but in the end, unless you know people working in those organisations, at a certain point you just have to hope for the best.
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Post by deyana on Oct 5, 2015 14:26:59 GMT
Not everyone is willing to die for someone else's political beliefs, and not everyone can support a family when their country has been blasted to smithereens and there is no way to produce food or water. It cannot be an easy choice to leave your home and go into the unknown, unless the alternative is certain death. I have great respect and support for anyone fleeing war or famine in a country run by a mad dictator or war criminal. Most nations began this way, after all. The refugees (from all countries) who have arrived in France by any possible means are being sorted into "Economic refugees" and "Asylum seekers from countries at war", while they spend time living in tents on the street. When room becomes available, they are moved into vacant buildings, so at least they don't have to deal with the weather. Then, they will be matched with permanent housing, schools and hopefully employment. This being France, all this background investigation takes a long time - some will be allowed to remain, some will be sent to another country which can accept them. There is a lot of uproar about refugees taking good jobs from qualified French people, but the jobs available would most likely be menial labor, so nothing a qualified French person would accept. The RefugeeAirBnB idea - though AirBnB is not involved at all - is interesting, and all the people involved are carefully screened before anyone is placed. I wish I could take in a family, but this isn't possible, so I've been donating requested items to the collection point in my arrondissement, as are a number of my neighbors. I sold everything I owned and arrived in France shortly after Katrina - in my mind, I was a political refugee, not simply a retired person looking for a nicer place to live. Well said. And what I would have liked to have said... if I could.
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Post by deyana on Oct 5, 2015 14:30:13 GMT
Thank you for acknowledging that, pariswat. Well and truly involved in Vietnam which split our country. Then Gulf War, Iraq, Afghanistan, various "peace keeping forces" East Timor and Pacific upheavals and now bombing Syria. Only Vietnam used conscripts, chosen by a lottery to go and fight. Refugees from the displaced persons' camps in Europe after WW2 built so much of this country. The huge infrastructure of dams and railways could not have been achieved without them and their skills.The generation before the "baby-boomers" is known here as "the builders". Now a disproportionate number of our top scientists, medical and professional people are Australians with Indian, Chinese and Vietnamese names.So the wheel turns. Exactly.
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 5, 2015 16:16:27 GMT
the thing with donating things, though, is that you have to know what is needed - here, a lot of organizations are putting out lists of "please don't donate this", because they get too much of one thing, and not much of the other, which is why i also prefer donating money: they themselves know better what is needed. and i in the end went with donating to a big, international organisation rather than a local one, because of my company promising to match donations done through a specific site, so that twice as much money arrived. the other thing is, that from what i read it is better to not give too exact specifications of what the money is for, as a lot of organisations end up having more than needed for one thing, but end up having less than usual and much less than needed for other things (like, apart from the refugees, when there is a catastrophe somewhere, and everyone donates for that, but then might not donate for people that are suffering not due to a one-time catastrophe but all the time). as for the organisations, i suppose there is a certain amount of research one can (and should) do, but in the end, unless you know people working in those organisations, at a certain point you just have to hope for the best. Good points, Rikita. A society woman I know who is involved with the Red Cross here told me they once got mostly high heels and party dresses in a donation drive for flood victims. As for earmarking the money, I have been wondering if more donations have been specified for Syrian refugees because of all the press given to their plight. As you say, there is need everywhere. Also, YES -- I will vouch for Chexbres! That is a very generous offer of your time & energy, Chexbres.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 17:10:59 GMT
I don't remember which disaster it was -- after all, there are so many of them -- but I remember one time when something happened and Médécins sans Frontières (Doctors without Borders) made an appeal that was hugely successful (It must have been something that particularly touched French heartstrings.) and in fact too successful. They made an announcement that they had collected far much more money than was needed for that particular event. They said that they would therefore like to distribute the extra money to the X, Y and Z events where they were also present but since they had made an appeal for that specific event, they would gladly refund anybody who did not want to give money for those causes. Most people were sending in cheques back then, so they already had the name, addresses and amounts. I thought that was quite responsible of them. Unfortunately, although they do great work, they spend a bit too much money on advertising which is why I have not made any donation to them for quite some time. I should probably check their accounts again to see if they fit my criteria again. After the disgusting bombing of one of their hospitals last week, I would like to help them again.
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 5, 2015 17:40:45 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2015 17:52:50 GMT
Well obviously. Their hospital was destroyed by the Americans. There is no point in staying.
I use my own criteria for donations, not Google's.
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Post by questa on Oct 5, 2015 23:20:19 GMT
In the late 90s there were occasions when MSF workers taking R and R leave in Bali would call in to my restaurant in Ubud. As it was a casual backpackers meeting place where people would share stories, they often had a group of travellers (and me) listening to their experiences. I was impressed by the flexibility and speed of the organisation, usually the first in to render help after any disaster and knowing what was wanted from the outset. While the big organisations, like Red Cross and Oxfam, and Governments fumbled around swamped by logistics, MSF were on the ground with their direct action.
Needless to say, many of their stories did not have happy endings and they knew they could be attacked themselves at any time in some places. They all worked out of compassion, not high salaries or perks, like some of the big charities offered.
The other group I found to be honourable was the Save the Children organisation which concentrated on preventing the kids, in the chaos of a disaster or war, being abducted for criminal purposes. They were also quick on the scene and worked efficiently.
The big organisations could do the long term assistance, but seemed very 'top heavy' in their governance.
Now in Australia people seem to be bypassing the big groups' appeals as they hear of the small percentage of donations that actually gets to the people who need it. I don't mind the advertising for MSF, someone has to tell it as it is.
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 6, 2015 0:24:37 GMT
I must have missed something earlier, Questa -- what does MSF stand for, please? Is it only in Australia.
Save the Children is another Google recommended.
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Post by questa on Oct 6, 2015 2:18:21 GMT
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 6, 2015 2:22:34 GMT
Oh, duuuh ~~ THANKS! I always think of it as doctors without borders because I can pronounce that.
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Post by questa on Oct 6, 2015 2:31:36 GMT
Sorry, Bixa, "Doctors without borders" is their English name. I only knew them by their French name as I was interested in them from when they first started with a group of French doctors going where no other organisation would go.
Médecins Sans Frontières is the world’s leading independent organisation for medical humanitarian aid. Every day more than 24,000 Médecins Sans Frontières field staff are providing assistance to people caught in crises around the world. We have offices in 19 countries supporting these teams, including our office in Sydney. Every year around one hundred Australians and New Zealanders are sent to and supported in the field by Médecins Sans Frontières Australia.
Médecins Sans Frontières field staff includes doctors, nurses, administrators, epidemiologists, laboratory technicians, mental health professionals, logistics and water and sanitation experts. The majority of our teams are made up of national field staff from the countries where the crises are occurring with ten percent made up of international field staff.
In 1999 Médecins Sans Frontières was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 6, 2015 3:17:17 GMT
Thanks, Questa. I really do know who they are, but probably first heard of them by the English name & that's the one that stuck in my head, even though I know the official French name too.
Not surprisingly, MSF is calling the bombing a war crime. Although the White House announced three separate investigations into the tragedy, the damage is done.
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Post by rikita on Oct 16, 2015 8:42:33 GMT
i think it is important to tell individual stories sometimes, just to remember that there are such stories behind all those people, so just posting a link to a ted talk i just listened to: link
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Post by bixaorellana on Oct 30, 2015 17:41:03 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 18:16:54 GMT
We get so many reports here trying to make the people important human beings, but so few people are listening.
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Post by mich64 on Oct 30, 2015 21:14:41 GMT
Our Mayor has been successful in fundraising for a family to be sent to our town. So successful that they are now reviewing paperwork for 2 families. The families have between 9 and 13 members and they all may be here by the end of December. That may be pretty shocking to them, but considering what they have been through already, I am sure they will adjust with the support from the community. I wonder what those families are thinking of coming to Canada, and to a cold part of Canada!
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Post by questa on Oct 30, 2015 22:06:00 GMT
They are possibly thinking, "We are together, free from the war, food and shelter supplied, no more walking for weeks in fear and exhaustion and friendly people here who will help us adjust to the cold. Thanks be to Allah for their good hearts"
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Post by chexbres on Oct 30, 2015 22:48:07 GMT
After Katrina, when people were sent from New Orleans to places like Utah, the main thing they were wondering about was where they could find something familiar to eat - like red beans and rice with smoked turkey necks.
It sounds trivial, but food is such an intrinsic part of the Louisiana culture, that many New Orleanians became severely depressed and even died, because they just couldn't eat what everybody else was used to.
I think it's a lot easier to cope with weather and temporary housing instead of having major changes in fundamental things like food.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 23:03:51 GMT
Although most of the Africans I see in my area are not at all refugees but legitimate immigrants or people who have arrived for family reunification, particularly in the winter when I see them wearing parkas and huge scarves, I wonder how happy they are in their new environment. I know there there are no dietary 'problems' since there are a huge number of African grocery stores and restaurants, but sometimes I think they really must find the weather quite dismal. It's kind of funny though when I talk to the employees at my mother's nursing home. Most of them are from Mali, and when there is a big heat wave, they are usually quick to say that they have heard from family and friends that it is not as hot in Bamako and that even when it is the same temperature, there is a better breeze there.
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