Eating a vegetarian diet could contribute to climate change.

[onlyMark]

".....following the USDA recommendations to consume more fruits, vegetables, dairy and seafood is more harmful to the environment because those foods have relatively high resource uses and greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions per calorie."

"......the study measured the changes in energy use, blue water footprint and GHG emissions associated with U.S. food consumption patterns.
“Eating lettuce is over three times worse in greenhouse gas emissions than eating bacon,” said Paul Fischbeck"

"However, eating the recommended “healthier” foods — a mix of fruits, vegetables, dairy and seafood — increased the environmental impact in all three categories: Energy use went up by 38 percent, water use by 10 percent and GHG emissions by 6 percent."

Bacon sandwich (not BLT) for me then..........

www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2015/december/diet-and-environment.html

[bjd]

Shouldn't you call that a "baconbutty", Mark?

What about all the logging in the Amazon to create places for beef cattle to graze? What about all the studies about the environmental results of concentrated pig farming in Europe? Whatever the writer's axe to grind, he will find a scientific study to back it up.

[onlyMark]

There are various names throughout the UK but it'd be a bacon cob or bacon bap in my area.

[bjd]

Oh, I thought you were from around Yorkshire where I saw "baconbutties" sold in a stand at the beach in Whitby.

[onlyMark]

I'm from north Nottinghamshire. There's not too much difference in many things but there can be in language. We do use butty as regards bacon and also chips but normally colloquially it would be bap or cob.

[Deleted]

They keep telling us that we should eat ground up worms and insects to save the planet.

[bjd]

Dec 16, 2015 17:05:01 GMT kerouac2 said:

They keep telling us that we should eat ground up worms and insects to save the planet.

Who is this "they"? Are "they" eating bugs too?

[Deleted]

Yes, they demonstrate it every chance they get. Yesterday on a programme they were offering insect cookies to the audience to show how delicious they are.

Frankly, using this stuff as protein flour does not bother me at all. We already eat lots of things that would disgust us if we took a close look.

[kerouac2]

Today I read that producing a kilo of tofu requires just as much energy and carbon production as producing a kilo of chicken. I think that 'they' are hiding some information from us.

[lagatta]

Tofu is highly processed. I wonder whether tempeh (fermented) would be less so?

Think it is mostly beef production that is very energy and carbon heavy...

Aren't there a lot of variables in vegetable production such as whether it is local and the types of vegetables?

[kerouac2]

Obviously. We have already been told in Europe (even though we wish that it were not true) that it is ecologically better to buy fruits and vegetables flown in from other parts of the world than to buy the hothouse varieties from the Netherlands (mostly). It seems outrageous, but the energy used in these hothouses is greater than the energy and pollution used by airplanes, and of course the stuff from far away was grown under real sunshine in real soil, which also greatly reduces the production costs without even considering the much cheaper labour.

I've said it more than once, but when I see that I can buy a kilo of limes from Mexico or Brazil for just 2.50€, I can't even imagine how little money the producers and their employees are earning. And the Netherlands is not even producing hothouse limes yet (nor Spain or Morocco -- they probably cannot beat those prices).

It is a well known fact that we should become locavores and only eat products in season. But that might not be the key to stopping global warming. France has announced its intention to ban internal combustion motors by 2040. India and Norway are trying for 2030.

[bjd]

I thought it was diesel motors they were going to get rid of by 2040?

[kerouac2]

Diesel motors are banned as of 2020 in Paris, just 3 years from now.

[onlyMark]

In 2015 in France, 70% of passenger cars were diesel powered.
ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/File:Figure_3_Passenger_cars_by_type_of_engine_fuel,_2015.png

The Paris thing will be interesting then, never mind all the other vehicles, usually commercial and probably close to 100% of them, that will also be banned.
Theoretically.

[kerouac2]

Since they know the end is near, in 2017 diesel cars are already down to 40% in France. That is an extremely fast drop. Also, the cheaper price for diesel fuel will end definitively this year.

The two main supermarket chains are bringing their products into Paris by barge on the Seine now and then transferring them to electric delivery vehicles.  I'm sure that other companies will adopt the same sort of procedures.

[whatagain]

Barges have extremely underperforming motors.
I did the calculation once and was stunned to see I didn't gain much in the ecological side by switching transport from road to river.
I nevertheless did take 200 000 tons of transport out of the road. - roughly 6000 trucks a year. I got a nice glass trophy from the mwet for that (ministère ? Wallon e? Transport).
Boy that was a pita to organise river transport. Trucks was so easy.

[lagatta]

Well, perhaps someone will devise better motors for barges?

In Québec with so much hydro energy, it will be easier than in many places to electrify trains, trams etc.

Edited because I have to check on the current use of barges in the Great Lakes - St. Lawrence system. There were certainly great barges on the lakes, but of course there is a break in shipping point at Niagara Falls, which was managed by canals and locks. It is quite possible that trucks are used nowadays.

[cheerypeabrain]

Living with a vegetarian (son) with Crohns Disease...Don't talk to me about greenhouse gasses...

[rikita]

just had a very short look at the link in the OP, without reading thoroughly, but one thing i noticed is that they speak about energy use and emissions per calorie and name lettuce and cucumber as especially bad. those two are very low in calories though, and i don't know any vegetarian who fills up mainly on lettuce and cucumbers - and i think if you were to replace the calories of a few strips of bacon with cucumber, you'd have to eat something like ten cucumbers at once ... so the more interesting part would be vegetarian food that fills you, like potatoes or pulses etc. ... the other thing is, most people i know eat mixed diets, don't know many that eat only meat, so if you have a salad with your steak, then you get the worst of both?

[mickthecactus]

There’s an advert running by a company called The Vegetarian Butcher. Catchy name.

But it’s for “plant based CHICKEN “. It suggests curries,MEATY pies, rice dishes etc but is NOT chicken. It should not be allowed. And it doesn’t say what plant it is. Soy, potatoes, lettuce, what?

But because it’s vegetarian it must be good.

[lagatta]

Actually it isn't bad (Dutch firm) Of course the veg protein is also processed... Lunch there was not my idea.

www.devegetarischeslager.nl/

[kerouac2]

In France, they quickly forbade the use of 'meat' names for vegetarian items. But I have noticed that some of the names are getting through these days, for example Burger King and its "vegetal bacon."

[bixaorellana]

My favorite almost meat name for a non meat is "fruit leather".

So appetizing.

[mickthecactus]

My daughter is a vegetarian and on a flying visit to Paris, left yesterday and back tomorrow. Very disappointed with the lack of vegetarian choices. Heavily meat based apparently.

I’m quite surprised.

[questa]

Fruit leather is an old treat...I remember my grandfather making it in the 1940s. It is just a method of drying/preserving fruit to use when it is out of season. Mainly stone fruit plus pears, apples and quinces etc., it looks like strips of leather and the texture is sweet and chewy.

RATS!! now I want some.

[kerouac2]

Nov 23, 2022 21:19:06 GMT mickthecactus said:

My daughter is a vegetarian and on a flying visit to Paris, left yesterday and back tomorrow. Very disappointed with the lack of vegetarian choices. Heavily meat based apparently.

I’m quite surprised.

Only 2% of the French are vegetarians.  There are nevertheless tons of vegetarian restaurants in Paris, but you have know know where to find them.  Most classic restaurants have vegetarian options but not necessarily items that appeal.

[mickthecactus]

Yup that’s it. She was with others who aren’t vegetarian.

[fumobici]

Only 2% of the French are vegetarians.

I swear in Tuscany, it must be even lower. I've never seen such unrepentant carnivores, outside of a zoo.