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Post by kerouac2 on Feb 22, 2019 18:46:31 GMT
I see that Beto O'Rourke is running for vice president. He just has to find which candidate will take him.
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 24, 2019 5:34:35 GMT
I just watched the movie Vice. It will be of interest to people interested in politics and in history, but should be required viewing for citizens of the United States.
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Post by kerouac2 on Feb 24, 2019 5:56:48 GMT
I have been avoiding it so far. It registers too high on my repulsion meter.
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 24, 2019 6:08:55 GMT
It will certainly get the arrow on that meter moving, but it's an important movie, very well presented and extremely watchable.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 20, 2019 19:20:08 GMT
I'm rather glad that Beto O'Rourke entered the race, even if he doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell. At least he is a breath of fresh air in the party and a major acknowledgement of the Latino future of the United States.
Then again, Emmanuel Macron was not considered to have a snowball's chance in hell of being elected in France, and he did not even have a political party behind him.
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Post by fumobici on Mar 21, 2019 15:07:52 GMT
Beto *cough* Robert Francis O’Rourke *cough* is about as authentically Mexican as a chimichanga. He's also a policy cipher who speaks in slippery platitudes and squishy generalities while often voting like a regressive Republican. Of course, the fossil fuel lobby has his back, pouring money into his campaigns. But he's a pretty "blank screen" people can project their hopes onto.
Biden has a decades-long history of being wrong -- not just wrong, but egregiously, horribly wrong -- from segregationism, to shamelessly whoring for credit card companies and parasitic student loan lenders, to supporting draconian drug laws that filled the US' prisons with African-Americans and destroyed countless lives and families, to his full-throated support for GWB's Iraq war (crime) which was based on lies and killed hundreds of thousands of complete innocents. I don't think it's a stretch to say that the world would be a better place if Joe Biden had never been born.
Neither of these men are even fit to challenge Sanders, who has decades of being spectacularly right on just about every one of his clearly and courageously held positions on policy. Perhaps even worse, either of these men, because of their glaring and obvious weaknesses, as nominee would practically guarantee a second Trump term.
I challenge anyone here to name even one single policy area where either of those guys have an edge in either in their histories or today over Sanders. A single goddamn one. I despair when I hear people who identify as progressive who also support people who have almost never advocated for progressive policies -- indeed have fought them -- for malformed reasons like Biden being a "steady hand" or "Beto" being pretty, or offering a latino perspective. It's like Democrats would rather lose again to Trump more than they want to do the glaringly obvious right thing and it baffles me no end.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 21, 2019 15:17:51 GMT
It is basically just the horribly tragic flaw of the two-party system. In French, it's called grenouillage -- describing the slippery antics of frogs in a basket. When there are just two parties and a one round election, it is impossible for new ideas to emerge because the top frog has to pay lip service to every other faction of the party, like it or not.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 21, 2019 15:31:19 GMT
[ Beto *cough* Robert Francis O’Rourke *cough* is about as authentically Mexican as a chimichanga. I fully understand your point, but I hope you know that you sound exactly like Trump when making this sort of statement.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 21, 2019 17:22:26 GMT
The grenouillage analogy does indeed describe US politics.
I don't believe O'Rourke's nickname is an attempt to pass himself off as Hispanic, but it does reflect where he comes from. As a person who has also had a nickname since babyhood, to the point that I identify closely with it, I completely understand O'Rourke's use of his nickname instead of his given name.
In every other particular, I fervently agree with Fumobici's post #279.
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Post by lagatta on Mar 21, 2019 23:14:05 GMT
There is one single policy plank where Biden has been better, or at least more detailed, than Sanders. (Obviously, I'm a Sanders fan and he is practically a local hero here). High-speed rail, and in my personal pet case, the northern New England line between Montréal and Boston!
But while I think modern rail, including trams, is an in important factor in reducing the car infestation growing since the postwar era (I'm not referring to rural areas, but cities and suburbs) a national health system is probably more important still.
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Post by casimira on Mar 23, 2019 13:24:47 GMT
I don't come in here very often because of media overload regarding 2020 but I wanted to say , well stated Fumobici. Thank you.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 23, 2019 14:00:29 GMT
Fumobici said”I despair when I hear people who identify as progressive who also support people who have almost never advocated for progressive policies -- indeed have fought them -- for malformed reasons like Biden being a "steady hand" or "Beto" being pretty...”
As long as the Dems control at least one house of Congress, it would be OK to have a more moderate Democratic POTUS who is electable. Congress can enact progressive policies.
“Free college” turns off a lot of voters who feel people should EARN things, not be given things at the cost of hard-working taxpayers. They may be wrong-headed, but I fear they are a majority. And they vote.
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Post by fumobici on Mar 23, 2019 20:33:26 GMT
“Free college” turns off a lot of voters who feel people should EARN things, not be given things at the cost of hard-working taxpayers. They may be wrong-headed, but I fear they are a majority. And they vote. theintercept.com/2017/09/21/free-college-tuition-republicans-bernie-sanders/ There's loads and loads of hard polling data that contradict this pernicious "tuition-free college is unpopular" fake news. Just as Medicare for All polls a large majority and even a good chunk of the GOP electorate. If you hear the media tell you that tuition-free college and M4A are unpopular ideas, ask yourself why you are being lied to. These ideas scare a lot of powerful people -- and not least because they *are* so empirically popular. They can be prevented or delayed from becoming reality by bribing both duopoly parties to oppose them and having the billionaire-owned, consolidated media repeat the lies they are fed in support, but in spite of all that people in the US when polled *still* support both those ideas by significant margins. There's a name for people who are opposed to tuition-free college and universal health care and who "feel people should EARN things, not be given things at the cost of hard-working taxpayers" but it isn't polite name and it also now isn't a majority. I don't care much about people who feel that way, they are bad, mean-spirited people and they are among the sour minorities who aren't worth even engaging with. Really, I pity them and those close to them instead because they obviously lack an essential ingredient of their humanity.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 23, 2019 20:53:44 GMT
University is still almost free in France for all citizens of the EU ("almost" means annual tuition of 170 euros for undergraduates, 243 for a Masters degree and 380 for a doctorate). But there is a shitty new scale for students from out of the EU -- 2770 euros for undergraduates and 3770 for a Masters degree starting next year. Oddly enough, the fee for doctorates remains the same for everybody. Luckily, about half of the universities of France have said that they will not charge these amounts. I just hope that the others decide to do the same thing.
Obviously, these amounts are rather risible compared to American fees.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 23, 2019 21:54:02 GMT
Fumobici, I live in a “red state” with a lot of “those kind of people”. They are real. And they vote.
I think state universities should be more heavily subsidized, as they once were, and more grants should be available for those in need. No one should graduate with $100,000 in debt.
But what does it accomplish to give for free what many can afford without such largesse? If it’s free, will people value it less?
And as it is, there are not good jobs for many with college degrees. We need more tradespeople, plumbers, electricians, truck drivers, heavy equipment operators. Not more psychology majors...
And if you want to make education free, why not make early education/preschools free? Now there’s a real need we could meet without breaking the bank.
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Post by lagatta on Mar 23, 2019 22:20:19 GMT
We (not referring to a specific country) also need more healthcare workers, and many of those jobs will require at least a Bachelor's equivalent nowadays. And techies. Many specialised trades now require technical college.
None of those antifreestuff voters think highways should be tollways. Or police and fire services.
Kimby, I suspect that the small fees charged by French universities (and those in several other European countries) are there mostly to ensure that those enrolled attend classes and study.
In Québec, daycare centres, which are also early-childhood education CPE-Early Childhood Centres also have a token fee. This has PAID OFF in fiscal terms, as it means more educated young mothers working in their professions and paying taxes.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 24, 2019 1:00:52 GMT
what does it accomplish to give for free what many can afford without such largesse? If it’s free, will people value it less? Huh?! It's not effing "largesse". If tax money can be diverted from schools for military dependents in order to build a pointless wall, for instance, there is damned sure enough money for educating the populace, especially since we've now all bought into the belief that somehow people coming out of 12 years of school are not educated. And the fact that we take for granted that it's okay that some must struggle or go without further schooling while others can "afford [higher education] without such largess" has fostered a nasty culture of elitism -- a culture that stupidly accepts the medical insurance mafia, that accepts that some kids are automatically "college track", that assumes tradesmen are less refined or whatever than those who had the wherewithal to go to college. ... not good jobs for many with college degrees. We need more tradespeople, plumbers, electricians, truck drivers, heavy equipment operators. Not more psychology majors... That leaves out the fact that many people simply want to study. Many people who have no job-related reason to do so enroll in continuing education courses. The whole idea of education used to be that it made for well-rounded people who could make informed decisions about all kinds of things, not to mention that the human mind is curious and likes to be stimulated. It is absolutely disgusting that in the US the reason for school after the 12th grade has become so exploited and so very, very out of reach.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 24, 2019 5:07:01 GMT
If it’s free, will people value it less? That is actually one of the arguments being used in France for charging foreign students (besides of course the idea of raising a bit of revenue). They have been saying that France doesn't get as many foreign students as a lot of other countries because people think that if it is so cheap, there must be something wrong with it.
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Post by mossie on Mar 24, 2019 12:21:30 GMT
I have to say that I consider a lot of higher education is wasted on teaching nonsense degree courses. Also to see people leave these tinpot universities with a massive debt is wrong, they need to be able to borrow to get married , raise a decent family and buy a reasonable house. May jobs are far better when they are learnt on the job, as happened in the good old days. As was the norm I left a good school a month after my 16th birthday and made my own way through various careers, learning all the time. I used to say "Show me the person who knows it all and I will show you a fool". We get far too many projects messed up with enormous cost overruns because the people in charge haven't learnt the basics, but know it all. Again I say "We have far too much education, and not enough common sense"
Rants over.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 25, 2019 13:18:34 GMT
Well, Ross Perot is only 88. He could confuse some Trump supporters if inclined...
More seriously, it is time to be a bit more realistic. No candidate perceived as leftist has a snowball's chance in hell of beating Trump, especially with the illusion that the economy is booming, even if it is all fake news mumbo jumbo. A wishy washy Democrat with a totally clean record is about the only chance there is to get rid or Mr. Golden Shower.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 25, 2019 16:30:11 GMT
On the over used "It's Mueller Time" topic: Disappointment reigns as do fears that this report and the bleating the Trunpniks will do sees Trump re-elected (as K2 predicted a while ago) Even the poll today on Le Figaro shows 73 percent of the 13,000 responders opining that Trump will be re-elected. "Disappointment" is a mild word for what most of us are feeling! I am keeping despair and dread (barely) at bay by reminding myself that the momentum of the midterm election backlash to Trump might keep up. No candidate perceived as leftist has a snowball's chance in hell of beating Trump, especially with the illusion that the economy is booming, even if it is all fake news mumbo jumbo. A wishy washy Democrat with a totally clean record is about the only chance there is to get rid or Mr. Golden Shower. I can't agree with you, Kerouac. I think Sanders' 2016 campaign positively affected even those who did not vote for him in the sense that it made them think that this "socialism" thing may not be the evil Communism they were always told it was. The asshole DNC shot itself in the foot at the last election by shoving through the candidate it deemed electable. Okay, sure she got more of the popular vote, but the way she became the candidate affected the way that registered Democrats did (or tragically) did not vote.
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Post by whatagain on Mar 25, 2019 16:43:07 GMT
Sanders was the Reason Trump for elected. Average US voter selects one out of 2 candidates. Having a third distracted some and these votes escaped democrats.
Supporters of Trump will vite again for him regardless of everything so the only chance imo is that all others vote for one candidate and only one.
The fool is now about to declare Gilan part of Israel. Which will gain votes
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 25, 2019 17:15:39 GMT
Idealism keeps people alive in times of despair. It can also keep them oppressed.
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Post by mickthecactus on Mar 25, 2019 18:06:29 GMT
"Disappointment" is a mild word for what most of us are feeling!" I was trying to choose words carefully. I've been on the phone constantly to my kids who are in quite a state. At my age, I don't stand much of a chance of living to see what comes after another 6 years, so I'm resigned. I've done FDR to Trump . . .what a trip! FDR to Trump is pretty impressive. Wonder what Mossies scan is?
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 25, 2019 18:06:56 GMT
Meanwhile, French political analysts, knowing that Bernie Sanders has no chance, are dreaming about Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, if only because Fox News is totally obsessed by her. That's a good thing, isn't it?
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Post by mossie on Mar 25, 2019 19:32:41 GMT
I'm with you Mick, FDR was elected the year I was born. To consider the range FDR to Trump, from the sublime to the ridiculous, statesman to conman. And we think our politicians are pigmies by comparison.
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Post by mickthecactus on Mar 25, 2019 19:34:25 GMT
I'm with you Mick, FDR was elected the year I was born. To consider the range FDR to Trump, from the sublime to the ridiculous, statesman to conman. And we think our politicians are pigmies by comparison. What range of Prime Ministers for you Mossie?
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Post by mossie on Mar 25, 2019 19:46:59 GMT
Ramsay Macdonald onwards, thank God we had Churchill when we needed him. What the present sorry bunch would have done in 1940 I shudder to think. They would still be posturing while the Jerries marched down Whitehall. We had sensible patriotic politicians in the 40's who won the war and created the welfare state.
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Post by mickthecactus on Mar 25, 2019 20:25:56 GMT
Ramsay Macdonald onwards, thank God we had Churchill when we needed him. What the present sorry bunch would have done in 1940 I shudder to think. They would still be posturing while the Jerries marched down Whitehall. We had sensible patriotic politicians in the 40's who won the war and created the welfare state. The thought of Corbyn is terrifying..
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 25, 2019 21:03:55 GMT
I've done FDR to Trump . . .what a trip! Indeed! You made me go look to count how many presidents I've lived through. Fittingly, the thing currently squatting in the White House is #13 for me. Although Truman was already president when I was born, by dint of having been FDR's vice-president, he was elected president the year I was born. Just think, even though I'm not all that old I've lived to see the US deny a second term to the best president it ever had; and also to see a third-rate celebrity con-man endorsed by the KKK elected to the highest office in the land.
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