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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 4, 2016 5:03:02 GMT
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Post by onlyMark on Jun 4, 2016 7:07:42 GMT
Truly a great sportsman.
"I'm so fast that last night I turned off the light switch in my hotel room and was in bed before the room was dark."
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Post by questa on Jun 4, 2016 7:38:21 GMT
He stuck by his anti-Vietnam War stance and took the punishment.
He raised awareness and money for Parkinsons Disease research (he had it from too many concussions)
"Float like a butterfly
Sting like a bee".
Goodbye, Brother.
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Post by lagatta on Jun 4, 2016 9:28:39 GMT
Yes, I was sad but not surprised; actually surprised that he lived so long with his degenerative condition. He was such a handsome young man  And as many commenters elsewhere have said, appreciated by many people who don't even like boxing: "Boxing is a lot of white men watching two black men beat each other up", as he said. Here is the full "No Vietnamese..." quote - cribbed from Guardian comments so any corrections are welcome. He is using "Black" in the sense of "people of colour": "My conscience won't let me go shoot my brother or some darker people or some poor, hungry people in the mud for big, powerful America. And shoot them for what? They never called me nigger, they never lynched me, they didn't put no dogs on me, they didn't rob me of my nationality, rape and kill my mother and father. Shoot them for what? How can I shoot them poor people? Poor little black people and babies and children and women. How can I shoot them poor people? Just take me to jail." — Muhammad Ali |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2016 13:18:52 GMT
He was a very heroic and compassionate man.
I always loved his little "poems", some of which were hysterical.
He had a special bond with the sports commentator Howard Cossell and the two of them would exchange barbs.
One that Ali said to Cossell: "That thing on your head is phony
It's made from the tail of a pony!"
Thank you for posting that quote Lagatta.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 4, 2016 16:47:52 GMT
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 4, 2016 17:15:30 GMT
Considering my well-founded ambivalence/hatred for boxing, I can't believe I keep posting in this thread. Still .......... Muhammad Ali. This is a Guardian article with 25 of the supposedly best photos of Ali. Best or not, there are some fabulous images. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2016 17:40:48 GMT
I never much liked him because I am not much good with loud mouth braggarts.
He became much more human when he was forced to retire.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2016 18:04:02 GMT
Thanks Bixa for those links.
"loud mouthed and a braggart" in my mind does not diminish who and what he represented to a generation and future generations.
He stood by his principles and sometimes I think being loud mouthed may have opened up some peoples ears in a positive way.
We need more role models like him.
I loathe boxing too, but, that being said, he used his craft and skill to send out a message all across the board, racial, and cultural divides not just in the US but all over the world.
There aren't very many "sportsman" who have accomplished that.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 4, 2016 18:14:43 GMT
Beautifully stated, Casimira!
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Post by htmb on Jun 4, 2016 22:48:52 GMT
Muhammad Ali certainly made his place in the history books. He entertained, he stood up for certain beliefs, and he was supportive of Parkinson's Research later in life, but I would not call him a role model.
I really do not like it when I hear professional athletes and entertainers called "role models" all because they've learned how to maximize their talents and promote their successes while being backed by mega-money industries. What you see and hear in the media is just a fraction of what makes a person complete. The lives of real people are much more complicated than news media headlines. I think many of us are guilty of putting people up on a pedestal because they seem to stand for certain things, but I'd honestly rather hear about everyday "common people" being role models for how they live their lives and navigate the real world. In my opinion, we confuse our young people by promoting professional athletes and entertainers as role models.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2016 23:29:53 GMT
"My conscience won't let me go shoot my brother or some darker people or some poor, hungry people in the mud for big, powerful America. And shoot them for what? They never called me nigger, they never lynched me, they didn't put no dogs on me, they didn't rob me of my nationality, rape and kill my mother and father. Shoot them for what? How can I shoot them poor people? Poor little black people and babies and children and women. How can I shoot them poor people? Just take me to jail." — Muhammad Ali I can relate to so much of what you say HTMB but, no other athlete that I am aware of in my lifetime anyway, was or has been that outspoken and put his career, millions of dollars, a world title, and the threat of incarceration on the line because of his moral convictions. To me, there lies the difference between he and say a Michael Jordan or some other superstar athlete (all while endorsing Nike or Gatorade). And, although he ate up the media attention he was able to garnish, he used it in a manner that to me is indeed indicative of a role model that is lacking in this day and age. He put his convictions first. It was no media stunt. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2016 23:41:51 GMT
(Sorry for the duplication...F'n tech idiot here.....)
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Post by lagatta on Jun 5, 2016 1:28:45 GMT
Yes, I loathe boxing - there is a long history of how boxing was a mythical "way out" for young men of the underclass, as prostitution was for young women, and boxers were often of whatever race or ethnicity was at the bottom of the heap. But I can still appreciate his elegance and athletic prowess. "Trash talk" is a long tradition in many sports, probably overtly in the most prolo ones, but the sports of the élite could have sentiments every bit as nasty couched in witty snide remarks.
But Ali really did put his money where his mouth was.
"...a name as familiar to the downtrodden in the slums of Southeast Asia and the villages of Africa as it was to cheering crowds in Madison Square Garden".
Well, Obama was really familiar with all of those... He speaks Indonesian, and has Southeast Asian relatives as well as Kenyan Black and US White ones. There is a whole shitload of crap in the world, from growing income inequality to the rise of fundamentalisms to the growing impact of environmental destruction, but one good thing is that more and more people live in extended families encompassing several nationalities and "races".
All that said, there are at least a hundred sports I'd rather encourage than boxing, except in a very highly regulated form that would actually privilege a swift and clever athlete like Ali, while eliminating knockouts that mean brain damage and other problems. And I feel the same about our beloved ice hockey, which is a beautiful swift sport but where brawls detract from that beauty (are they afraid that it resembles ballet?) and destroy the lives of young men far too early.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jun 5, 2016 1:47:31 GMT
Oh hell, Casimira -- why did you have to post that?  I should have seen it coming, but ........ That is the song that ALWAYS reminds me of my dad. To add to what LaGatta & Casimira said about Ali putting his money where his mouth was: Years ago I saw him on a talk show. His message to youth was to urge them to get an education. He said that no matter how great they were as athletes, becoming a star in that field was hugely a matter of luck, plus one injury could take it all away. I always thought it was dreadful that his daughter decided to become a boxer. |
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Post by questa on Jun 5, 2016 1:57:51 GMT
There are no absolutely known causes for Parkinson's Disease, but in Ali's case it has been put down to too many heavy blows to his head for too long. Yet we still see young men and women pull on their gloves and go out for more bouts of head thumping. I suppose if laws were passed to ban boxing it would simply go underground and the boxers lose what protections they have today.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 5, 2016 5:19:11 GMT
I am still hung up on his Nation of Islam days as an antisemitic black supremacist and the fact that his first divorce was due to his wife's refusal to submit to clothing rules.
Yes, I know that he learned to tone it down in later years.
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Post by bjd on Jun 5, 2016 5:42:48 GMT
I am a bit surprised about the enormous coverage of Ali's death. I loathe boxing and don't think it's a sport at all.
Furthermore, his not going to Vietnam and talking about racism was much more to do with the US and was not especially "international". When I saw the news and how the "Rumble in the Jungle" was presented as his "going back to Africa", well, excuse me, but he was paid a bundle for that and also embraced the dictator of Zaire, Mobutu. And, like Kerouac, his embrace of Nation of Islam, put me off.
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Post by onlyMark on Jun 5, 2016 7:26:16 GMT
There are no absolutely known causes for Parkinson's Disease, but in Ali's case it has been put down to too many heavy blows to his head for too long. Yet we still see young men and women pull on their gloves and go out for more bouts of head thumping. I suppose if laws were passed to ban boxing it would simply go underground and the boxers lose what protections they have today. Never mind American Football. |
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Post by questa on Jun 5, 2016 10:29:02 GMT
Or Australian Rules football, played in shorts, a shirt and boots...and equally rough. Only in the last 2 seasons have they decided to check players for concussion if they get a blow to the head.
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