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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 1:33:37 GMT
I've been wanting to make a thread about Vancouver for a long time now because, well, I'm the only one who posts on APIAS who lives here, and it's quite a gorgeous place. Vancouver is always in the news for its skyrocketing real estate and…well, yoga pants? I don't know what else. There are blogs about Disappearing Vancouver and the Vancouver Archives, but I wanted to post some photos of places that I pass everyday that were part of the city long ago. You know, 50 or so years. I grabbed some archived photos of landmarks, printed them up, and then went there myself to see if I could get a similar shot. Warning: I am no photographer and I have a crap camera. Most of the time the vantage points and angles are unreachable or the other huge problem: TREES. Vancouver has a lot of trees and they obscure most of the architecture. A lot of these archival shots were from when the buildings were just erected and bare of landscaping. Oh well! Along with the rest of Vancouver, I tut tut about the destruction of heritage and the loss of character but, to be fair, Vancouver is such a young city that we're only talking 100 years. And a lot of the stuff they built was crap or burnt down, because the cheap, versatile bulding material was wood. I think most of the photos I have are of sandstone or brick, merely because those are the only buildings still standing. The first one is the one I see every day from my bedroom window: the Gabriola mansion. Scarcely a mansion by most standards, but one of the largest extant single family dwellings in the West End. A sugar baron built it in 1900, vacated it soon after, then it became a series of apartments, residences for merchant marines, and most recently, restaurants. It's stood vacant for the last decade, used exclusively by movie producers who want parquet floor, wood paneling and some stained glass in the shot. It recently sold for close to $7 million and is being turned into condos. The next shot was hard to replicate because the wall facing us buts right up against a condo now, but the lady is in the drive, and the fancy curved window behind her is hidden by shrubbery.And here's a shot with little shrubbery, just to get a feel.Next is a fairly recent development. It started out as Maxine's, variously rumoured to have been a brothel and a speakeasy, then a beauty school, then a series of cabarets and restaurants. It was given a façadectomy, a condo tower was built on top, with the building transformed into the condo lobby and a coffee bar. With the new addition:
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 2:41:22 GMT
The next site is dear to my heart: the Sylvia Hotel, where my husband and I had our first date. The Sylvia has a long and storied history; built in 1912 as an apartment building, it has been a landmark in Vancouver for decades. It's had its ups and downs but it is still my favourite place for a drink (the bar at sunset is stunning), and it is a stone's throw from my apartment.
This photo is taken from the perspective of the English Bay bath houses, looking down the bay towards the Sylvia, the tall building (the Sylvia was the tallest building in town until 1958). The esplanade the photo was taken from is being repaired and inaccessable and besides, the damn trees are in the way, so I had to move closer to the water. All you can see of the Sylvia is the white roof line. This picture is taken from the beach-facing side. Here is my effort at matching. Damn trees!Bit of a better view. Now, one of the legends that I grew up on was that Errol Flynn died in the Sylvia in 1959, on top of a 15 year-old. Well, he was in Vancouver with a 15 year-old, but not at the Sylvia. He was in town to sell his yacht, and then they couldn't get him to leave. His host offered to drive him to the airport: You'll notice the Sylvia Hotel figures in there somehow. Who knows if Beverly was under him or not? But Errol Flynn died less than two blocks from my apartment! I had to check it out.
This is what it looked like then. Pretty modest penthouse, doc! And it still stands today:Can't get a good perspective on the apartment because of the tower right across the alley. A shot of the penthouse from the side:
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 3, 2016 3:53:55 GMT
This is wonderful, Lizzy -- great execution of a great idea. I kind of like the trees in your pictures of Vancouver today, since they're an index as to how much time has passed since those buildings were new and entirely visible. The nuggets of history are fascinating. Can't wait to see further how this all develops (ahem).
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Post by bjd on Sept 3, 2016 5:04:29 GMT
This is great, Lizzy. Please -- don't joke/complain about trees. They make a city and the more the better.
Except for the scenery, the beach and the mountains, I always figured Vancouver looked like Toronto or any other Canadian city. With all those condos, it seems I'm right.
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Post by mossie on Sept 3, 2016 14:10:26 GMT
That is a great story about Errol Flynn, just shows how reputations can be enhamced.
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Post by patricklondon on Sept 3, 2016 14:58:41 GMT
I did a home exchange to Vancouver once. It's (mostly) beautiful with a wonderful scenic settting. And am I right in remembering that esplanade as somewhere on the way to Stanley Park? I cycled around there several times. And I was glad of the opportunity to catch up with some lovely relatives there that I barely knew anything of. My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 15:12:20 GMT
Yes, you're right, Patrick. The esplanade connects to the Stanley Park seawall, which is a huge tourist attraction. The Sylvia sits right on the edge of the Park.
It's 8 am and stopped raining. Off to take more photos.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 21:31:11 GMT
After a good dousing, I set off this morning. Although everything in this post is withing walking distance of my place, I took my trusty scooter. That thing can go and park anywhere, and I can be in and out in a flash, before a traffic violation is even noted. First off, at the end of my street, next to the water, is the charming Alexandra Park bandstand. The photo was apparently taken from atop a grand old Victorian pile. I have to make do with the forecourt of a tower (with my little Vino in the shot).This photo shows some Edwardian ladies setting up for a concert in about 1916. Mine shows some homeless people waking up.Next up is where I would like to live in my next life — the Kensington. It's 2 blocks towards the beach from my place, but it's another world. Nine foot ceilings, ornate balconies, on the beach. It doesn't look like much from the archival shot (even the road is unpaved) but it's gorgeous, and suites, when they come available, are going for around two million. (Another perspective thwarted by development across the street).Heading towards Davie Street, we have a new construction site. Google Street View show us what was there four months ago, a line of dilapitated Victorians, and today, a hole in the ground.A Vancouver landmark, the Holly Lodge (1910). The oldest standing apartment building in the West End. It has gas fireplaces and dumbwaiters. I contemplated moving there once, but the place is just ripe for renoviction.
Renoviction = We're sorry, but you have to move because this place is so forlorn that it needs complete gutting. We've sold it for a gabillion dollars to a developer. You can apply to move back in when we're finished, at 6 times the rent. If it doesn't go condo.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2016 23:03:11 GMT
Now I'm moving a little further afield. Vancouver has a lot of big commercial buildings that have withstood development, but I don't find them quite as compelling as the homes and hotels and community buildings. The Yale was built as a bunkhouse for Canadian Pacific Railway workers in 1889, which makes it one of Vancouver's oldest buildings. Then it became the Colonial Hotel and about forty years ago it became a famous blues bar, with performers such as B.B. King, John Lee Hooker, Johnny Winter and even Jimmy Page. I used to joke it was the kind of place that catered to men in well-worn jeans and 40 year-old women in tube tops. It was a classic, and two years ago it was sold and now it has turned into a Country/Karaoke/Classic Rock kinda place, with Texas BBQ. The website has photos of platters of burnt meat, mechanical bulls, and gals on stagettes/hen parties playing with dildoes. Real class. The place will fold within 3 years, I tell you. Yale Saloon The corner of Georgia and Granville streets is about as central as you can get to the Vancouver downtown core. Although a Hudson's Bay store had existed in Gastown since 1887, a new flagship store was built in 1915 and continued expanding until the present day. The Granville Skytrain station is in its basement. Of course, since the Bay was sold to Americans in 2006, I rarely go there anymore. It makes me sad.The Orpheum, further down the Granville strip, started life as a vaudeville theatre in 1927. It shortly thereafter became a movie theatre, and was threatened with demolition or gutting several times over the years until the City had the foresight to purchase the property (Jack Benny helped with the fundraising!) in 1975. Since its reopening it's become the home for the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra and a roadhouse for class acts.(Not my photo, but I had to show you the interior)upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Orpheum_Theatre_Vancouver_View_Of_Stage.jpg/1024px-Orpheum_Theatre_Vancouver_View_Of_Stage.jpgHeading further east, we get into the grottier part of town, the area known as Canada's poorest postal code, where no tourist in their right mind goes. I'm often there, for work or on the bus, and although it's gritty, it's not dangerous. Unless you're in the habit of spontaneously catching HIV or injecting yourself with heroin, the area holds little danger. Just be careful if your sensibilities are easily offended.
This is the Carnegie Community Centre, once known as the Carnegie Library. The City applied to Andrew Carnegie for some bucks and in 1903, the library was built, but by 1957 it had outgrown its home and moved into a Brutalist monstrosity on Burrard. (That building was subsequently outgrown and the building turned into a Hard Rock Café, an HMV and now it's a Victoria's Secret. No photos of that.)
The Carnegie Library with the City Hall on its left.Carnegie Community Centre today. It once again houses a library for local residents, and lots of support, including a literacy programme which I've fundraised for. Last stop in the Downtown Eastside is Saint James' Anglican Church. The original St. James was slightly to the north and burnt down in the Great Fire of 1886.Another church was built on the present site and was torn down, and this one was built and consecrated in 1938. It supposedly combines Art Deco, Byzantine Revival, Romanesque Revival and Gothic Revival disciplines, but I think it looks like a spaceship.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2016 4:43:27 GMT
This is a very fascinating and informative report although I suspect that if you had made a report about all of the landmarks that have been torn down rather than preserved, it would have been much longer. I love hunting out transformations over the years and just regret that using film was such a big expense when I moved to Paris and that I don't have nearly enough photos of how Paris looked in the 1970's and how much it has changed, at least at ground level, since then even though most of the buildings are still the same on top. I made a similar 'then and now' report about my neighbourhood in 2009. If you've never seen it, here it is.
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Post by bjd on Sept 4, 2016 5:59:42 GMT
I find it a shame that Canadian city politicians seem to have no qualms about knocking buildings down or no ideas about urban planning other than "let's sell that to a developer". Exactly the same happens in Toronto and occasionally a local group of citizens will get mobilized to save a building, even if it's not especially attractive or interesting, just to preserve a bit of local history. I remember the outcry when city authorities wanted to knock down the train station in Toronto. It's really underused but it's one of the rare older buildings in Toronto.
I kind of like that church with its art deco lines.
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Post by patricklondon on Sept 4, 2016 13:32:32 GMT
Heading further east, we get into the grottier part of town, the area known as Canada's poorest postal code, where no tourist in their right mind goes. I'm often there, for work or on the bus, and although it's gritty, it's not dangerous. Hah! My home exchange to Vancouver was, I think, a little further east still, in a sort of enclave of done-up clapboard houses on (I think) Hawks Avenue - one my hosts was a carpenter who'd done the whole place out. I thought it was a pleasant area on the whole, but when I went up to the bus stop on E. Hastings, I did notice there were a few young ladies who never seemed actually to get on a bus....... My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2016 14:58:35 GMT
You were in Strathcona, which is gentrifying at a snail's pace. It used to be where all the Chinese immigrants settled early in the last century, as evidenced by bilingual street signs. It also adjoins the downtown East Side and is not the ideal part of town for a house swap. The next time you go, get me to vet it first!
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Post by lagatta on Sept 4, 2016 18:03:16 GMT
Very interesting report. I was in Vancouver for all of two days, working.
By the way, you forgot Asian food (from throughout Asia) and in particular seafood, as a draw.
We are a much older city so as there has been some horrific destruction, more neighbourhoods have been preserved. Moreover we are poorer, so there is slightly less speculative pressure.
I suspect the Yale Hotel will get a historically-accurate renovation one of these days, and the clientele will change.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2016 18:20:39 GMT
By the way, you forgot Asian food (from throughout Asia) and in particular seafood, as a draw. I suspect the Yale Hotel will get a historically-accurate renovation one of these days, and the clientele will change. Unfortunately, I can only really afford the 99 cent sushi places, or I can buy frozen farmed basa fillets like the rest of the proletariat. Fish is way too expensive to eat regularly. I wouldn't keep my hopes up about the Yale. It's gone through its seismic upgrade and that'll be it. Not a lot of money to be made in historically-accurate drinking spots.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2016 20:00:25 GMT
I like this video, filmed May 7th, 1907, by William Harbeck, who later earned renown by going down with the Titanic five years later. The first bit is Victoria, BC. Vancouver starts at about 5:14. I recognise nothing. Remarkable for the fact that it wasn't until the late 1920s that they began driving on the right. The video is silent.
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Post by fumobici on Sept 5, 2016 3:40:52 GMT
Thank you so much lizzie for this. As close as I am to Vancouver, I certainly don't go there often enough. At one point I'd grown a little tired of it and thought I'd seen everything, but so much has changed since then it really deserves another chance. I went up to see Van Dusen Garden a couple of years ago and went to see my father's old house in Kits Point and every time there are fewer houses and more apartments and it's a little sad for me as I loved strolling around among the funky old--but nice--houses there.
This report shows a lot of both work and love of the place in it, and I can really appreciate both. I'm hoping there will be more to come.
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Post by lagatta on Sept 5, 2016 16:02:25 GMT
lizzy, of course I know that seafood is expensive everywhere. But it is a draw for those tourists who either have more money or want to splurge on something very good.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 22:11:21 GMT
Thanks for the comments, everyone. If nothing else, I'm managing to amuse myself. The weather is quite cloudy today, so I thought I'd head out before the rains hit, which they will. Vancouver goes very black and white when the weather closes in, so let's hope we don't have too much trouble sorting the old from the new. I thought we'd first have a look at the Beatty Street Drill Hall. Unfortunately, the Drill Hall sits on some very valuable real estate and it is being subsumed by its environs. Two sports stadiums sit on its fringes, a skytrain station across the street, condos propped up against it, and now they're taking down the viaducts that run on either side of it. Because it has a heritage designation, they can't tear it down. It's hard to get a good view of it from any angle, so here's an aerial.It's mostly famous for sending lots of young men to their deaths.Opening day in 1901.
18th Field Ambulance, Canadian Army Medical Corps leaving Beatty Street Drill Hall in 1912.I love this shot (the soda cart and the man looking right at the camera), but it's hard to recreate. Of course, the drill hall had a huge parade grounds, which today is a parking lot that takes up an entire city block; it will next be developed as the new Vancouver Art Gallery. Just a couple blocks away is Holy Rosary Cathedral. Poor old Father Fay ended his days "as a CPR foreman for a construction crew." Weird. The next priest, a member of the Missionary Oblates of Mary Immaculate , mortgaged their land in France to pay for the construction of the cathedral, which was completed in 1901. The church wasn't consecrated until 1953, however; consecration of a church cannot take place until the mortgage is paid off!More downtown churches/cathedrals. These two I am quite familiar with, because I've performed in both; Shakespeare in Christ Church and a reading with Margaret Atwood in St. Andrew's.
Christ Church Cathedral (Anglican), 1895, with much renovation going on. Most unfortunate for comparison purposesSt. Andrew's Wesley United Church (1927), with First Baptist (1911) beyond. Apparently, First Baptist is working with a developer to build a 56 story residential tower on their land.And lastly, the Hotel Vancouver. Three buildings have held that name over the years. The first was built in 1883 by the Canadian Pacific Railway Company to house all those people who were arriving daily from points east.Its design was much reviled, even by the architect himself, and it was revamped and an addition built to the south in 1893. In 1916, a new hotel was built on the site, in an Italianate Gothic style. I love this building, it looks like it was designed by a madman. It was torn down in 1949.Here is a shot of it soon after it was built, with the Court House.What's there today, Nordstrom's (the Court House is today the Vancouver Art Gallery. For now).And my favourite archival shot of the day, the back end of the Court House (now the Vancouver Art Gallery), with all the Italianate glory of the Hotel.The final hotel was built in 1939 on the other side of the Court House, in that vaguely Chateau-ish style that Frontenac, Laurier, and the Empress are known for.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2016 22:35:10 GMT
And I had to add this photo: men in 1912 perched atop a buffalo (with moose), part of the 2nd Hotel Vancouver.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 16:12:17 GMT
This is great, but it's a shame that there was (is) so much space in Vancouver which allowed the construction of buildings so far apart. This of course makes them much more vulnerable to being torn down when they age. Dense downtown areas are easier to save, if only because demolition is much more complicated.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2016 16:55:48 GMT
Yes, well, unlike Paris with its millenia of development, there was no reason to build tightly in Vancouver. And there is no longer that sort of space, not at all. Every square inch is accounted for today. You see that picture above of the very first Hotel Vancouver in 1883? This is just a couple of blocks away in May of 1886. As you can see, the real estate office was a stump. We'll just wait another thousand years and see what stands.
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Post by mossie on Sept 6, 2016 19:05:30 GMT
Very clever to put the old into context with the new.
And all estate agents should be confined to offices like that last shot.
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Post by htmb on Sept 7, 2016 3:58:14 GMT
I'm just now catching up with this thread, Lizzy. It's very interesting. I only spent a couple of hours driving around Vancouver in 1977. I don't remember much, except I thought it a charming city.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 7, 2016 15:13:15 GMT
I've been following all the new additions to this thread with interest and have been continuously surprised throughout. First I was surprised because Vancouver looks nothing like I imagined it, with many Edwardian-era (or whatever that era is called in Canada) wooden buildings. As you point out, Lizzy, they ain't there no more. Even so, I guess I thought the brick or sandstone buildings would dominate the landscape more than they do. Yes, major Canadian city & all that, but I had no accurate picture of it, certainly high-rises weren't factored in. I was also surprised about Kerouac's comment of young Vancouver having so much space. Possibly when it was founded it was perceived that way, but it's naturally limited space-wise by the lay of the land. I suppose Vancouver's gorgeous setting and its job-generating port will mean it will always have growing pains.
At any rate, I'll say again that this was a super idea for a report and extremely well presented.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2016 16:11:46 GMT
Thanks, bixa. The best thing is that I can add to the report as the mood takes me. Yes, Vancouver is growing upwards. The tallest building so far is 61 stories. There are bylaws that help retain what are called "protected view corridors", but they are being chipped away daily. Vancouver will resemble Hong Kong, eventually. There are many valiant folk who are working to save building from the wrecking ball, but it's a losing battle. The preferred mode of demolition is "accidental fire". The building sits empty for a few years, suddenly one night a fire breaks out, then oops!, we have to tear it down, it's a public hazard. It happens so often I'm sure there is a consortium that specializes in insurance fraud fires.
It would be possible to make a report of "what was there then and what's there now", but I would find it heartbreaking, hence my decision to concentrate on what remains.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 7, 2016 18:01:30 GMT
It happens so often I'm sure there is a consortium that specializes in insurance fraud fires. My uncle used to call that "selling out to an Eastern concern".
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Post by lagatta on Sept 7, 2016 23:58:02 GMT
I hope those tall buildings with no balconies are businesses and not homes. And it never gets as cold in Vancouver as it does in Montréal and Ottawa, and probably even Toronto - to say nothing of the Siberian cold of much of the Prairies. It would be horrible never to be able to step out and get a breath of fresh air.
Bixa, Edwardian in Canada was Edwardian. Very much a part of the Empire then,(not to downplay the discrimination against francophones and Indigenous people, and of course "foreigners", in particular "Orientals".
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Post by fumobici on Sept 8, 2016 0:48:21 GMT
"Selling out to an Eastern concern" is pretty much the story of the 21st century Vancouver real estate market. Communist Party bigwigs from tThe People's Republic of China have few really favorite places to safely stash the fruits of their dizzingly lucrative corruption and have settled on Vancouver RE as one of their favorites. Countless billions of what economists refer to as HAM (Hot Asian Money) pour in unchecked, pricing everyone else out. You've got Chinese students with no income living in near empty multimillion dollar homes. A new tax kicked in recently but the bubble was already beginning to slowly deflate. A lot of potential buyers of a more local nature are awaiting a catastrophic collapse to happen to swoop in and buy on the low, but they've been waiting a long time too. Rental rates (although obviously high) have never inflated as much as property prices have, so real people can actually still afford to live in the city--just not to own there. Anyway, that's what my Canadian friends are saying.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2016 2:04:32 GMT
I can afford my rent—barely—but I'll never be able to buy and I don't want to. I have a friend who sold his eastside home for 1.5 million, and he bought a condo for 1/3 of that; thank goodness he sold that house before the collapse or he'd never be able to afford to move.
If there is a collapse. My husband is certain, me, not so much. People have to live somewhere.
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