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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 22:32:45 GMT
Most people know France as a tiny European country of little importance, but every now and then it tries to puff itself up as a bullfrog to be noticed by the world. Since President Trump will have taken complete control of most of the Western world in 2017 and everybody will also be totally tired of the Syrian massacre and all of the bodies of would be migrants floating in the Mediterranean, the French presidential election in April 2017 might provide a welcome comic diversion for a lot of people. Will Marine Le Pen become the first woman to become president of France? Will François Fillon continue to steamroll over the traditional right wing to cancel same sex marriage and abortion, increase the work week by 4 hours and eliminate the tax on wealth again? Will the multitude of Socialist and various other left wing candidates completely evaporate as expected? Does anybody outside of France care? Anyway, this event will be discussed by a lot of media around the world as the date approaches, if only because the desire to spread misinformation is overwhelming, and most "journalists" can get away with it since nobody will be considered qualified to contradict them. Therefore, I decided to attend a political electoral rally over the weekend, something which I have not done since 1988. Like most of you, I tend to watch these things in brief and boring snippets on the television news. Or not. I am not saying that I support the candidate, but I was interested in seeing how the event would play out.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2016 22:58:01 GMT
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Post by bixaorellana on Dec 13, 2016 1:05:32 GMT
This is fascinating! Pretty much everything I know about politicking comes from watching The Good Wife. This seems very similar to that. Ha, good call about the cardboard cutout and kudos to the lighting committee at the event, who really knew how to make him stand out -- he's positively charismatic. The video really gives an idea of how big the event was. Love your choice of typeface for the title. What does the circle of stars mean?
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Post by lagatta on Dec 13, 2016 2:24:59 GMT
The circle of stars is the flag of the European Union. Is this a fake campaign? I can't place the guy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2016 5:36:34 GMT
Is this a fake campaign? I can't place the guy. Oh no, it is a completely authentic campaign, and one of the reasons that he is popular is precisely that -- he is a fresh face compared to all of the other candidates, who have all been in politics for 30 years or more. Since most of the political journalists have been in journalsm for 30 years, too, that's why the media have not paid all that much attention to him until quite recently. He came to public notice by being a government minister for more than two years, and he is now the most popular politician in France, even though his chances are quite slim due to the fact that he is not in any political party except the one he just created this year. Nevertheless, he has made the cover of Paris Match three times this year, because there is a detail about his private life that fascinates a lot of people: his wife is 24 years older than he is. He married his high school French teacher.
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Post by bjd on Dec 13, 2016 6:44:07 GMT
Well, I rather like Emmanuel Macron. At least he is young, intelligent and speaks well.
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Post by patricklondon on Jan 12, 2017 17:16:48 GMT
I watched the French TV series Spin (Les Hommes des Ombres) not so long ago, so these sorts of scenes are familiar from that. I haven't been to a big political meeting for ages, not since long before the days of technological wizardry, and even then it was for the more ramshackle, even if well-intentioned, sort of party that wouldn't have been able to afford all that, nor attract that many people. These days, British politics, especially since the Blair days, has become more and more image-managed with the public being just the passive extras there to fill the screen. Things are very different from the political meetings I went to first, in my youth, as in this documentary: My blog | My photos | My video clips"too literate to be spam"
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Post by htmb on Jan 13, 2017 15:11:40 GMT
I commend you on your choice of topic, Kerouac. I think the French elections are quite relevant for those of us who live in other countries.
It was reported in the US news yesterday that MLP was visiting the tower in NYC. No word on why, but you can just imagine.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2017 20:14:44 GMT
I really hate the two party system, which we of course know doesn't really exist since there is no limit to the number of candidates. It is simply the term that has been applied in -- how many? -- maybe just one country in the world since the system has been rigged to eliminate the possibility of other parties to emerge. Of course, it must be mentioned that the "one party system" that exists in far too many countries is even worse. Nevertheless, I would like to point at that multiple party systems are not always the solution. In the case of France, to qualify for something like the presidential election, a candidate must obtain 500 signatures from a selection of the following categories: -- French members of the European parliament -- senators and members of the national assembly -- members of regional, Corsican or departmental administrations -- members of the regional departmental and overseas territories -- members of the Council of Paris, Lyon and Marseille -- mayors of villages, towns, arrondissements of big cities That is both easy and not easy at all. But what makes it "easy" is that France has not consolidated its villages like the other countries of Europe and basically has more municipalities than all of the rest of the EU combined. Yes, the mayor of a village of 50 people is a valid signature. Weird candidates have benefited immensely from this over the years, by talking to village mayors and convincing them that "even if you do not support me, you believe in democracy, don't you?" This year things might change a bit because up until now, the validated names of signatories were not made public. And if, say, 2000 people gave their signature for a candidate, only 500 were drawn at random to be used. But in 2017, the identities of the persons signing will be published. That might make a number of the village mayors hesitate. However, it is still too easy to be a validated candidate if one takes a look at the tragedy of 2002. M. CHIRAC Jacques 5 665 855 19,88% M. LE PEN Jean-Marie 4 804 713 16,86% M. JOSPIN Lionel 4 610 113 16,18% M. BAYROU François 1 949 170 6,84% Mme LAGUILLER Arlette 1 630 045 5,72% M. CHEVENEMENT J-P 1 518 528 5,33% M. MAMERE Noël 1 495 724 5,25% M. BESANCENOT Olivier 1 210 562 4,25% M. SAINT-JOSSE Jean 1 204 689 4,23% M. MADELIN Alain 1 113 484 3,91% M. HUE Robert 960 480 3,37% M. MEGRET Bruno 667 026 2,34% Mme TAUBIRA Christine 660 447 2,32% Mme LEPAGE Corinne 535 837 1,88% Mme BOUTIN Christine 339 112 1,19% M. GLUCKSTEIN Daniel 132 686 0,47%
There were ego trips but also a lot of political posturing to show "I am important and you must negotiate my support for the second round." And it all blew up in our faces since our future president Lionel Jospin, a fine moral man with almost no enemies, did not make it to the second round. So now, as the French say "j'ai mis de l'eau dans mon vin." -- I have watered down my wine and am willing to compromise.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2017 18:05:42 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 15:41:24 GMT
Wasn't there another round this past weekend? Seems that's what I thought I heard and then never heard any follow up on what happened?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 16:06:09 GMT
There was the Socialist/moderate left wing primary on Sunday. 7 candidates (Green party and other splinter groups).
Next Sunday will be the runoff between former prime minister Manuel Valls and left wing firebrand Benoît Hamon. I voted for Hamon but will not bother to vote next Sunday. Hamon will almost certainly win, thus ensuring that the Socialist party will not have a snowball's chance in hell of being qualified for the second round of the real election, thus increasing the chances of Emmanuel Macron.
Cruel analysts have been saying that this primary is for choosing the person who will be in 5th place in the election, after François Fillon, Marine Le Pen, Emmanuel Macron and Jean-Luc Melenchon.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 17:15:25 GMT
I thought Le Pen was bowing out.
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Post by bjd on Jan 24, 2017 19:40:51 GMT
I thought Le Pen was bowing out. If only. But that's never going to happen.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2017 19:51:38 GMT
I must be dreaming when I turn on the radio in the early a.m. and sometimes fall back to sleep with it on and maybe "hear things" that aren't really real.
It sure would be nice to have some control over this and master real control over what is going on in the world.
Right now I guess I have to be content with the dream state I live in and maybe not ask any questions as to the verity of it all...
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Post by bjd on Jan 25, 2017 11:56:00 GMT
Meanwhile, the wife of François Fillon -- the right-wing candidate (not the extreme right, that's le Pen) has been outed as having received 500,000€ over the past 8 years for "working" as her husband's parliamentary assistant, as well for being as on the staff of La Revue des Deux Mondes. Nobody at the magazine remembers ever seeing her there, including the director, and there is no trace of her work as Fillon's parliamentary assistant. She has always claimed that she kept out of her husband's political life.
Of course, Fillon went on the attack when confronted with this by the Canard Enchaîné, a satirical/political newspaper. He didn't say she had or hadn't worked, just attacked the comments. Typical political reaction. Must be getting lessons from Trump.
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Post by lagatta on Jan 25, 2017 17:24:10 GMT
He also gave a fakey 'feminist' defence of his wife - this from a hardline Catholic 'pro-lifer'. I just heard his appeal on Radio-Canada...
Plus Catholique que le Pape!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2017 18:01:20 GMT
Yes, he was implying that it was digraceful that people could challenge the idea that a politician's wife could have a job. Absolutely nobody was saying that. They are simply asking for proof that she was actually working for all of that money since she has always self-described herself as a "housewife."
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2017 6:20:46 GMT
So, today is the second round of the Socialist primary. This is probably where the French left will crash and burn once and for all. Assuming that Hamon wins, this will leave France with two nearly identical "true leftist" candidates, the other one being former Socialist Mélenchon. Both of them have uncontrollable egos, so neither will drop out to give the other a chance.
Meanwhile, right wing Fillon still can't get rid of the sticky tape plaguing him like Captain Haddock. He wrapped himself in indignation all week, but nobody was really buying it. It is rumoured that he might even have to drop out of the election, which would really put his political party up shit creek trying to select a new candidate from their dinosaur collection.
The unexpected seems to be becoming more possible -- a second round with Le Pen vs. Macron.
Politics aside, the rest of the world would probably be relieved to finally have a French president who can speak comprehensible English.
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Post by bjd on Jan 29, 2017 7:09:33 GMT
The Républicains tried some mud-slinging at Macron, saying he had spent money for his political party, but it doesn't seem to have stuck since the money was spent while he was Minister of the Economy and before he had started his own movement.
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Post by waterhazardjack on Jan 29, 2017 22:42:39 GMT
Meanwhile, right wing Fillon still can't get rid of the sticky tape plaguing him like Captain Haddock. He wrapped himself in indignation all week, but nobody was really buying it. It is rumoured that he might even have to drop out of the election, which would really put his political party up shit creek trying to select a new candidate from their dinosaur collection. The unexpected seems to be becoming more possible -- a second round with Le Pen vs. Macron. Kerouac, I'm presuming it would be a massive boost for Ms Le Pen if Fillon has to drop out? I would have thought Fillon is the best placed to see her off the premises and in the event of his not running, she'll be very hopeful of defeating any of the other candidates ??
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2017 5:26:28 GMT
She has seen herself as the ultimate winner for months, even more so since Trump was elected. Most of the opposing politicians always make the same mistake -- agreeing with her at least partially. "Yes, immigration is a problem." "Yes, terrorism is a problem." "Yes, crime is a problem." In the end, they just validate everything she rants about.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 14:26:09 GMT
More news on the radio about Fillon's alleged embezzlement.
How is this being played out there and do the people think this is being fanned by the other candidates, any one candidate in particular?
I feel the need to hear about what's happening somewhere else rather than you know where.
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Post by bjd on Feb 2, 2017 14:48:15 GMT
Yes, for the moment it's still "alleged". Fillon has asked for 15 days to prove his innocence. He keeps going on the offensive, saying that it's all done to discredit him because he was in the lead. But every day seems to bring something new. Today's goodie will be on the evening news -- they will show an interview that Penelope Fillon did in England in 2007 saying she had never had anything to do with her husband's career, not worked for him. Meanwhile, Fillon said that she had worked for him from 1998 to 2002.
Plus, he "misspoke" recently, saying his 2 children who worked for him were lawyers. They earned 84,000€. But in fact, they were law students at the time. So he is digging himself in deeper. People in his political party are now seriously thinking that they need a back-up plan, since the election is at the end of April. And some of his supporters are still saying that everything he did was legal. Yes, unfortunately, it's legal to hire your wife and relatives, but what is illegal is to pay them for doing nothing.
Anyway, Fillon said that if he were indicted, he would resign from the campaign to be president, so now he's screwed if the police and magistrates find evidence against him. And even if they don't, his name is mud, because he had been selling himself as Mr Clean.
As for who leaked the information. Nobody knows or has stated anything publicly but one commentator I heard said that this kind of damaging information very often comes from the person's own party because of jealousy, etc.
Marine Le Pen is not saying too much because she too owes 340,000€ to the European Parliament. The deadline for repayment was yesterday and she has refused to pay. So now they will dock her pay by 50% every month, plus take away some perks, until the money is paid back. Of course, her defenders say the two scandals have nothing in common and that she did nothing wrong...
What is sure is that the presidential campaign has suddenly become much more interesting and uncertain. And lots of people who I never hear talk politics are suddenly interested. Maybe this will lead to more transparency in French politics. That would certainly be a good outcome.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 15:17:05 GMT
Thank you BJD for that clear, concise and informative reportage. The radio report referred to the "scandal": as Penelopegate. (a term I positively loathe)
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Post by bjd on Feb 2, 2017 15:46:02 GMT
Yes, that's what they are calling it here too.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 16:53:07 GMT
Some of the politicians who think they are helping François Fillon are even digging a bigger hole for him. One of them, Gérard Longuet, a former president of the Parti Républicain, excused what has apparently happened by saying that it was normal for people from 'good families' to help their own. He also went on to say that if Penelope Fillon had worked in the private sector instead of for her husband, she certainly would have earned twice as much money. Poor woman, what a sacrifice she made! Since she was paid between 4000 and 10000 euros a month, please tell me where to get these private sector jobs without actually working. I never earned that much. People earning minimum wage are still gasping in indignation.
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 2, 2017 17:06:03 GMT
You don't know whether to laugh or to cry. Why does LePen owe 340,000€ to the European Parliament?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2017 17:30:13 GMT
She used her allocation for parliamentary assistants for paying the salary of her personal bodyguard and a secretary back in Paris at Front National headquarters. These allocations can only be used for people working at the European parliament. Other people have been nailed on this subject, too.
As for her defence, it was the usual bullshit: "Anything that can help me do my job as an elected European official counts as a valid expense."
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Post by patricklondon on Feb 2, 2017 17:35:14 GMT
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