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Post by katrinka on Mar 8, 2017 23:37:21 GMT
I used to participate in this forum as lizzyfaire and now I am back one last time to explain why I will no longer be posting, or even following updates. Frankly, it's no longer worthwhile for me and I've moved on. When measured, the negatives outweigh the positives and I simply need to place my energy in new, more rewarding directions.
Perhaps everyone here is happy to think that they belong to a community with a great variety of personalities and diverging opinions, but it is much closer to an echo chamber than you will ever realize. I simply got tired of being called out by certain members for my life experiences and beliefs which obviously didn't fit into the male-centred, comfortable bourgeois lifestyles they themselves enjoy (and I'm including certain ladies in this, too). I'm not upset, or outraged, simply weary of hearing the same old, same old and needing new voices to listen to.
Many posts have saddened, enraged or otherwise astonished me with their casual (often insidious) racism, sexism, intolerance, and all around comfortable, middle-class smugness. For a long while I was content to simply participate in the threads that amused me and ignore the posts that I desperately wanted to challenge, because what is the point of challenging beliefs held by middle-aged (and older) people who have never been called out for their questionable points of view, and wouldn't have a clue what the hell I was talking about anyway? This board is obviously fuelled by a certain demographic, and while I enjoyed participating in those threads that reflect that side of my personality, I found I was keeping quiet more and more and letting certain things slide. I am never going to change someone's mind who thinks that the worst problem women face today is their high heels getting caught in linoleum, or that the answers to life's complexities reside in a big-screen t.v.
To be honest, I can't afford a t.v. because I have trouble paying my rent most of the time. I face daily the battle of being a middle-aged women in an often superficial, impossibly competitive city. I haven't been on a holiday in over five years, and don't know if I'll ever get another one. My personality has been forged by life-long poverty, complicated by the realities of being a woman on her own for most of her life. I made those choices consciously and freely, but they have added a certain steeliness to my soul that doesn't appreciate comments like this:
Sometimes, certain statements are just astonishing in their dimwittedness.
I want to say in closing that there are many people here whose struggles in life I appreciate and whose posts I have enjoyed greatly, and I salute you. I've valued the messages and overtures of friendship I've received. I wish you all continued success and Happy International Women's Day.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 11:17:11 GMT
I'm sure we all wish you well, lizzy, and you have really hit the nail on the head with your post, showing how judgmental and prejudiced you are about people you do not even know while accusing them of the same thing. Clearly the nuances here can be too complex for somebody with as many problems to handle as you have.
Good luck in real life.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2017 14:09:16 GMT
Personally, I do not fully agree with Kerouac and in many ways resent his representation of Any Port because I do not think it is really that "cut and dry".
I have been insulted and derided on here many times and flounced likely a half a dozen times because of many things, some along the lines of what you mention.
I too, have insulted some posters and or challenged them and subsequently there are some posters who intentionally avoid me sometimes even after apologizing to them. I take full responsibility for my behavior and actions.
I am also very moody and impulsive and my posts sometimes reflect this well after I realize how silly I am being and rethink what I have expressed. I also have a tendency to take things too personally.
The reason I come back is complex. I have been a member of this forum since its inception and have invested a lot of time and energy in developing many of the early threads, most especially the garden section. I take much pride in this in many ways. With that in mind, I feel that this forum does not "belong" to Kerouac and Bixa alone although they keep the wheels turning, it is also my forum as well as the many other posters both past and present, and that includes you as well.
So, while I can agree with much of what you say I regret you have chosen to leave and feel that your contributions have been valuable and represent the type of diversity the forum thrives on and needs.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 10, 2017 4:15:40 GMT
Oh, lizzy, I'm so sorry to hear you are leaving us. I've enjoyed your posts and enjoyed experiencing the theater (or is it theatre?) life vicariously through your posts. I wish there was some way you could keep just a toe in the waters of Any Port, maybe through bookmarks of threads you find worthwhile and ignore the rest. But that's just me being selfish. I wish you all the best, and hope our paths will cross again. (And I also do not agree with K2's harsh comments in reply to your explanation for your leaving.)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 5:27:03 GMT
We are all entitled to our own opinion. Mine is based on things Lizzy said about other members in private messages to me.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 10, 2017 14:34:53 GMT
"Private" is the operative word here. In "public",lizzyfaire has been a valuable and valued contributor. Can't we all get along?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 16:00:27 GMT
I agree Kimby.
Goodness knows I have shared, whined, bitched and moaned over the years in PM's to both Kerouac and Bixa regarding other posters.
Maybe Lizzy isn't the sycophant K2 would like her to be as are many posters on here.
I have been dubbed "ignorant" and got a "Fuck you Casimira", both on the board, not in private.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 16:15:23 GMT
And,a private message should remain private even if the content isn't revealed.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 16:24:19 GMT
Flouncers no longer have private messages, and in any case I don't understand your reasoning any more than I understand the title of this thread.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 16:29:27 GMT
Oh, I looked it up -- had never heard of it before: knowyourmeme.com/memes/check-your-privilegeBut then again, I do not frequent "social justice bloggers." I guess one needs to have "middle class smugness" to use such references.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 16:32:00 GMT
My reasoning is simple. Private means private, flounce or no flounce.
If I tell someone something in confidence I trust that it would remain so.
Who makes the rule that it is no longer private?
As for the title of the thread, I dunno.
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Post by deyana on Mar 10, 2017 16:44:04 GMT
I've just come back on here after a long absence and the first thread I see is this one made my lizzy.
I'm always sorry to see anyone leave, either this forum or mine or any other really.
These forums can be complex places with complex people.
Why do I come back here at all? After I have been treated harshly, while others get one pass after another? Where favoritism runs ripe? Probably because I know this forum is more than just one person, even one leader. It's a place that is a part of many. And a small part of that is also me.
But I came here today to give a message about my dog, Angel. So that is what I will do.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2017 17:00:04 GMT
Private means it was not on the forum. It doesn't necessarily mean confidential, I think we have all received some highly confidential PMs and also some inconsequential PMs. As an adult, I feel that I am qualified to know the difference, just as I know what I can say about the people I have met in real life and what I should not mention.
It is totally normal and healthy that we have differences of opinion from time to time. In fact, that is the very reason that this section of the forum exists (even though differences of opinion can occur on any board). If anybody feels suffocated or attacked, they should speak out immediately when the occasion arises and not let it poison them to the breaking point.
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Post by chexbres on Mar 10, 2017 21:04:03 GMT
As a relative newcomer to AnyPort, I'll venture to say this - because I've been the victim of internet harassment on a few forums and was booted off by "the Powers that Be", simply because they did not appreciate hearing different points of view and the feeling of being outnumbered and less popular than they once were.
There are people who think they "own" forums - doesn't matter which kind they are - Travel, Animals, Photography, Whatever...but they think they're special, in some way. At some point, they single out people whom they think might make good friends, and cozy up to them. The fact that the "friends" may or may not actually reveal their true personalities - or even if they are male, female or snakes in disguise - is often concealed. Then, the friends start chat groups, most often via PMs, then via private emails. This is when the wagons start to circle and people become pariahs.
Because this is just what a lot of people do, when they sit around alone in the dark with a computer screen staring them in the face and no outlet for whatever anger or angst they have in them.
The fact is that no internet forum is "a safe place" - and people give out too much personal information which might better be dictated to a psychiatrist. You don't know anything more about a person on a forum than what he/she/it chooses to "share". If you haven't learned to figure this out by now, it might be time to start.
I'm not defending anybody - just sayin'...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 1:52:59 GMT
I so wish you had been around 8 years ago when I was a neophyte to the whole f'n phenomena you describe.
It sure would have saved me a lot of grief and terror.
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Post by chexbres on Mar 11, 2017 7:53:42 GMT
Probably a good time to turn off the computer and go cold turkey from all forums, then. It's not as hard as it may seem. Meeting real people in the real world is much more satisfying, I think. Of course, the internet has made us think that forums like this one are a convenient substitute...
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Post by whatagain on Mar 11, 2017 9:29:08 GMT
'Meeting real people in the real world is much more satisfying, I think.'
Yes, and taking some distance is good too. Esp with a forum - words spoken convey much more than words written.
I've said it beore : Anyport is like a family - you think I never disagree with my wife ? You think I never want to kick out my own daughter from the house ? (last time was yesterday...) You think I don't have an uncle nobody wants to talk to ? You think I'm not that uncle myself for some ?
Does it mean that because you don't like what one says, the person is bad ? I also find some of Kerouac's posts a bit harsh. But what he says is also true, speak up ! Woman or not. You think I raised my daughters to shut up when challenged ? What does high heel play a role in this ? I'm afraid Lizzie lives in a shitty world, I am a male so I may not realize all this sexism (a typical sentence used by typical women to make us males feel ashamed of the way they are or perceive they are treated ?) but I have never been sexist so why should I cope with this kind of argument ? Should I feel ashamed because some males are what they are ?
And I am sorry if people struggle with money. Should I also feel ashamed that I recently bought 3 cats each costing 500 € ? Should I drown them ? Will it make anybody feel better if I destroy my money ?
Everyone copes with his/her life. Accusing people on forums is something Idon't understand. We are behind a screen, we set the rules for the discussion : we disconnect, we speak up, we whatever.
This said, I rellay like you Lizzy ! Wish you the best, and I'm sorry you haven't seen the (many) good sides of Kerouac, for one. Nobody's perfect (*) but when you take somebdoy as a whole, you take the good and the bad, provided the good largely outwehighs the bad. Which is my opinion of a lot of people.
(*) : take myself for example : in the past I used to be conceited. Now I have spent a lot of time working on humility and in all modesty it has become one of my best (of my many) qualities. So now I a m perfect.
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Post by whatagain on Mar 11, 2017 9:34:30 GMT
'About
“Check Your Privilege” is an online expression used mainly by social justice bloggers to remind others that the body and life they are born into comes with specific privileges that do not apply to all arguments or situations. The phrase also suggests that when considering another person’s plight, one must acknowledge one’s own inherent privileges and put them aside in order to gain a better understanding of his or her situation.'
Me not understand one word, sir...
Quelqu'un peut me traduire en Français, je sens qu'en Anglais je vais ramer pour comprendre.
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Post by patricklondon on Mar 11, 2017 11:48:35 GMT
Quelqu'un peut me traduire en Français, je sens qu'en Anglais je vais ramer pour comprendre. Au plus simple: qu'il faut toujours rester conscient de la possibilité que ce qui est normal ou évident pour vous ne l'est pas pour des autres dont les circonstances personnelles et sociales sont très différentes, et de refléchir sur vos hypothèses inconscientes avant de parler. Qu'on ne présume pas que la normalité est toujours mâle, blanche, financiellement confortable, etc.
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Post by whatagain on Mar 11, 2017 11:51:19 GMT
Merci. C'est ce que je craignais.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 13:48:58 GMT
Probably a good time to turn off the computer and go cold turkey from all forums, then. It's not as hard as it may seem. Meeting real people in the real world is much more satisfying, I think. Of course, the internet has made us think that forums like this one are a convenient substitute... I did this past summer when my computer died and my husband was ill. It was quite refreshing and I really didn't miss it that much at all. I likely read a dozen books as a result.
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Post by chexbres on Mar 11, 2017 19:10:54 GMT
I've always heard this phrase as "Check your privilege at the door" - (Laissez vos privileges devant la porte d'entree) - meaning the same thing that patricklondon said.
Basically, all are supposed to be equal when entering a room. I don't think this is remotely possible anymore.
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Post by lagatta on Mar 11, 2017 20:34:22 GMT
I think PMs should not be the subject of discussion on the board.
And please, don't drown your cats! When we get "free" cats like my little stray, they often wind up costing as much as they need to be sterilised, have various innoculations, be wormed etc.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 20:56:00 GMT
Most of my PMs are to reconfirm arrival schedules or to arrange dinner dates. I really don't know what kind of dreadful PMs some of the rest of you are having.
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Post by whatagain on Mar 11, 2017 21:40:58 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2017 22:23:52 GMT
Whatagain, I had a chance to read your post before you deleted it and of course certain elements were probably not appropriate here. However, I wanted to tell you that it is quite amusing that the person who called you out on your restaurant budget on Fodor's is one of our most valued members here, although he stopped posting quite some time ago. He said that his English was not good enough, but I suspect that there are other reasons. All of us older members miss him, but he does check in here regularly and probably reads a few things. Just to give you an idea of where he is coming from, you would probably be interested in reading one of the tales he told here: anyportinastorm.proboards.com/thread/3426/attack-on-bolan-mail
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Post by Kimby on Mar 12, 2017 0:10:04 GMT
Kerouac, thanks for linking to that amazing thread! Interesting that "white privilege" was mentioned by the author...were you aware of that or was it a coincidence?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2017 4:03:07 GMT
I miss that poster and have always held him in high regard.
He has a certain mystique abut him that fascinates me and then POOF, he's gone,.
One of two posters on here that I would enjoy meeting but, am content for your visits.
Hope you are well and will look forward to future updates and posts.
Please don't be a stranger to us on here.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 12, 2017 5:22:06 GMT
I've been following this thread with interest, as it brings up some important points about privilege and equality. I'm grateful to Chexbres for bringing it back to those points. I've always heard this phrase as "Check your privilege at the door" - (Laissez vos privileges devant la porte d'entree) - meaning the same thing that patricklondon said. Basically, all are supposed to be equal when entering a room. I don't think this is remotely possible anymore. Like most people in the world, I have been both the victim and the beneficiary of how others perceive me. I took my grown son to the emergency room in New Orleans once for a puncture wound in his palm from jumping a hurricane fence. This was the day after Mardi Gras & the place was packed. Nevertheless, he was seen almost immediately. "Why are they letting you go first?" I asked him, adding that what he had was just a bo-bo compared to some of what we were seeing in the emergency room. His answer: "Mom -- we're white." And, since this subject of privilege is now on my mind, this article on my fb feed jumped out at me: www.boredpanda.com/sexism-women-discrimination-at-work-martin-r-schneider-nicole-pieri/
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Post by whatagain on Mar 12, 2017 9:49:41 GMT
Yes, I guess it was better to delete my post. Was a little it ... not happy yesterday. For a lot of reasons. But a forum is not an 'exutoire' (in english too ? ).
Fortunately you know my life and know me, so you'll draw the right conclusions. Anyway the bottom line was that everyone has to make the best of his/her life, and not - like I did - throw one's unhapiness in the face of others, expecting ? What actually ?
Sun is shining and my daughter is coming back from a schooltrip to Paris today.
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