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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2009 6:27:38 GMT
I know people who are hooked on Asia like I am and others who are repelled by the idea of it like my brother.
From what I can tell, it is the more well travelled who adore Asia and the people with little or no travel experience who avoid it, because it scares them. They say things like "I'd like to see Europe some day, but I have no attraction to those other countries."
Naturally, the people of Australia and New Zealand are generally exceptions to this rule, since they have to pass through Asia to get to most other places.
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Post by bixaorellana on Feb 4, 2009 6:52:06 GMT
I think what many people feel is a sort of shuddering horror over what they imagine as unalloyed filthiness and food they wouldn't want to eat. Really, you can't reason with people who feel that way. I get that reaction about Mexico, which is far less exotic -- "Oh, but they have poverty there!"
An interesting conversation could be built around how certain nationalities seem drawn to certain other foreign places. Truly, perhaps the reason you love Asia and your brother rejects it is because you are "more French" than he.
And there are nationalities who seem born to travel. As a quick stereotype, the Australians like to travel, but become homesick. The English are good travellers, seeming to find something to like or at least of interest anywhere. The Germans vary, most seem capable of throwing themselves into the experience, whereas others are always at one remove.
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Post by palesa on Feb 4, 2009 7:29:44 GMT
And travelling is quite new for South Africans, there were many places we could not visit. I am finding that our "young folk" are learning to travel. My niece and her husband are on their way to South Korea.
I am the only one of my siblings to have travelled internationally. We have all been to Rhodesia and Botswana but I am the only one that has travelled out of Africa. OH, I forgot, my brother won a holiday where he flew to New York and then a connecting flight to (a harbour thing somewhere) and got on a cruise ship for 12 days and then flew back home. When I asked him why he did not extend his stay, he was only interested in the cruise. Not sure where I got my travel bug from.
Actually if I extend that to our friend base, I think that we only have 2 friends who have travelled internationally. When we were travelling to India, most people could not begin to understand the attractiion.
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Post by happytraveller on Feb 4, 2009 7:44:55 GMT
I don't know why, but I've never felt attracted to Asia. But I can't wait to go back to central America, explore South America and some countries in Africa.
I've met quite some people who are either attracted to Asia or South America but not often to both.
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Post by spindrift on Feb 4, 2009 9:38:58 GMT
Long ago I imagined I wouldn't like Africa! LOL. Then a friend invited me to join him and two others on a hunting safari in Rhodesia (as it was then). From that time forward I realised I was addicted to the continent. Now I feel the same way about Asia. I have yet to visit South America but, once again, I feel I'm not attracted to go there! It's all about the conditioning of the mind and this might be connected to fear as it's root cause. Like 'Oh! I'm afraid to go there because I can't speak the language, don't know anyone etc.'
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Post by auntieannie on Feb 4, 2009 22:27:31 GMT
When I visited India, my parents were not impressed to say the least. They even didn't look at the pictures. My dad still hasn't. Part of their vision of Asia is through televised reports, who show much too much dirt, terribly sad situations, etc... I lost my heart to India and found I could totally adapt to poverty/dust/difference, etc. I accepted it as part of life, partly because it looks much worse on TV and partly because that was how India was when I visited it. People were very clean and I could see constant cleaning and embellishments. I felt I looked like an old bag in my salwar kameez, whereas people looked prim and tidy at all times.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2009 22:44:12 GMT
My Russian colleague still repeats the line that his brother told him maybe 35 years ago upon exiting a plane in India. "He said that as he stepped out of the plane, he could smell death in the air."
Needless to say, my colleague has no intention of ever going there.
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Post by auntieannie on Feb 6, 2009 19:42:59 GMT
K2, when a taxi was driving me from Delhi airport into town - when arriving for my second visit to the country, I took a deep breath and said: "finally, I am home again".
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Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2009 17:06:10 GMT
That's how I feel the moment I get a whift of the aromas of Thailand and Vietnam.
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Post by hwinpp on Feb 19, 2009 9:22:19 GMT
I haven't been to southern Africa for a long time but I used to love it. Don't think I'll have time to return in the foreseeable future. I spent a largish part of my childhood in northern Africa, just the Maghreb countries, but don't feel any longing to return. India doesn't captivate me much either, I was there on three longish trips, have seen most of the attractions, lived with an Indian family for three months and realised on my last trip I'd probably never go back. What I really want to see is America, specifically the US of A. Otherwise, when I still lived in Europe, I had very conventional tastes. I loved France more than any other country and found myself returning again and again. Now I live in Cambodia, it's home and I like it.
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Post by tod2 on Jan 7, 2011 17:38:27 GMT
Nearly a year has gone past since a post on this thread....I'm glad I have found it because as of tonight we are NOT going to New Zealand which I'd hoped - We are going to Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam, and definitely Korea. OH MY GIDDY AUNT...IS ALL THIS POSSIBLE? My husband especially wants to see Korea. I don't know where to start
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2011 5:57:31 GMT
Obviously, I'm jealous, tod2. Is this an organized trip or are you putting it together yourselves?
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Post by tod2 on Jan 8, 2011 10:24:26 GMT
Well, this is the thing....I have done my own bookings for years and the Singapore part is easy as it would be our 4th trip - the next ports of call have to be worked out and the time we want to spend in each place. Altogether I think 6weeks max for the whole trip. We do have contact with a chap who has been to Korea quite a lot and raves about it so I will be picking his brain for that part of the journey. We are only going in late December (Xmas in Singapore) and so on. Kerouac, Your turn will come once again as you have youth on your side and many more years of capably travelling all over Asia. At my age I am still very energetic but I have bad legs - such a nuisance.
I will no doubt be going back to the Asia Board on Fodors as well for tips and suggestions - especially Vietnam. In Thailand we've done Phuket but not Bangkok. Malaysia only gone across the causeway so I wouldn't call that going to Malaysia.
Oh, and we have been to Bintan and Batam. (Think that's right?)
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Post by hwinpp on Jan 10, 2011 4:27:26 GMT
And you aren't coming to Cambodia! Seriously!?!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2011 7:58:28 GMT
Yes, I noticed that unfortunate omission as well.
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Post by tod2 on Jan 10, 2011 13:53:21 GMT
Oh, ........didn't mean to leave it out but I'm sure we will go EVERYWHERE ;D Boy, have I got some research ahead of me......HELP!
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Post by hwinpp on Jan 11, 2011 2:19:06 GMT
Let us help you Tod2, there's nothing more fun than planning a trip
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Post by tod2 on Jan 11, 2011 14:15:09 GMT
I would be eternally grateful for a few hot tips and since this morning when I picked up 6 or so travel brochures from an agent, I have been sitting at the kitchen table going through them. I'm now totally cross-eyed ;D If my husand has his heart set on Korea we would be stupid not to go to Japan as well. I will probably have some questions once we have a rough plan of what is possible - thanks again for offering to help!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2011 15:31:32 GMT
You don't mind riding around on the back of a pickup truck with the livestock, do you?
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Post by Kimby on Jan 11, 2011 15:54:44 GMT
Asia is not homogenous, and I think it's possible to be attracted to some parts of it and repelled by other parts, and for different reasons.
Though Mr. Kimby and I loved Thailand (1988, 1993 & 2005), Burma/Myanmar (1993) and Laos (2005), we were less enchanted with China (1988 & 1995) and Cambodia (2005), and had mixed feelings about Vietnam (1993). If someone asks, I'll try to explain what we don't like about China and Cambodia when we had such positive reactions to their neighbors.
We have yet to go to Japan or Singapore, and have less interest in those two countries because they are modern nations, and expensive relative to the rest of Asia.
We would like to go to Malaysia, though, so will probably end up in Singapore coming or going.
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Post by tod2 on Jan 11, 2011 16:21:36 GMT
Thank you for your input and thoughts Kimby! I would definitely definitely want to know your negative thoughts on China and Cambodia. My son has been to mainland China twice on business and said "Mom, you cant believe how primitive it is - you won't like it!" OK, they found the food a problem and existed on McD's. The Chinese cuisine is nothing like your friendly neighborhood Chinese takeaway! I'm talking rural China now - not big cities like Hong Kong which we have all been to. I was very interested in Cambodia.....what's not to like? Kimby, you may not know this but Singapore is my most favourite city next to Paris! How different can you get Parts of Singapore aren't all that modern.....there are some wonderful old buildings and I have a sketch book full of paintings of old Singapore. I would love more opinions and all will be taken as they come - nobody should take offence at another's like or dislike
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Post by tod2 on Jan 11, 2011 17:31:46 GMT
Oh Kerouac.....Yes, I would! On holiday I don't want to do what I always do at home
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Post by Kimby on Jan 11, 2011 17:35:23 GMT
Well, China, for all its wonderful parts, has/had a different mind-set than other parts of Asia. Though hopefully today things have improved. We were last there in 1995, on an REI Adventures biking and trekking tour of SE China, so perhaps our perceptions are skewed.
In our experience, though, Chinese people think nothing of blowing their nose on the street (not into a hanky, but right out of their nostril onto the street!) and there is a lot of spitting, even on ferry boats, consequently a lot of people have colds (meaning even more snorting and spitting), and we always got colds no matter how careful we tried to be.
The Chinese have tried to modernize and build beautiful structures (shopping malls, hotels) of brass and glass and marble, but then they don't keep them up properly - they throw buckets of filthy water on the marble floors and mop them like they were swamping out animal stalls. Toilets in market buildings and even nice department stores were of the squat variety. We stayed in lovely lodgings that had totally inadequate plumbing - you had to carry buckets of water to flush second-floor toilets, and the water from the showers would make you sick if you got it in your mouth (to this day, I spit if I get water in my mouth while showering!). Hot water was undependable and shower heads were sometimes about waist high, forcing one to kneel to take a shower. Mr. Kimby singed his eyebrows trying to start a wall-mounted hot water heater in one room. Sometimes the shower drain and the squat toilet (yes, some hotels still have/had them) shared the same piece of floor, so you had to straddle the toilet to bath. We were reassured by our guides that in the parts of Quangdong province we were in, these were the best lodgings available...and these were in towns and cities. During the trekking portion we stayed in tents and used village squat toilets that were so gross that Mr. Kimby set an alarm to get up before daybreak to take a hike out into the country to do his business!
Chinese seem to have different personal hygiene/privacy standards, which takes some getting used to. E.g. we witnessed a jewelry store clerk squeezing her zits in a shop mirror in full view of the customers. Perhaps living in a nation with more than a billion people makes one less squeamish about privacy issues.
And the food! Not at all like the clean, colorful, tasty, healthful-feeling veggie and meat dishes we are accustomed to in the first world. When we got home we joked about racing to our favorite Chinese restaurant for some "real" Chinese food! Even in a Holiday Inn in Guilin (in 1988, mind you) where I ordered duck, thinking it would be a can't-go-wrong local specialty, I received a plate full of grease with one thigh and about 6 necks, and only chopsticks to try to wrestle any edible bits into my mouth. The waiters and bussers did not know enough English to be able to bring us forks, so we had to point to them in the wait station. In some places, restaurant linens were apparently washed in cold water with inferior soap, and grease stains were all over them, even though they had been laundered. Napkins were totally inadequate pocket-sized packs of kleenexes, so we found ourselves wiping our fingers on the edge of the tablecloth (explaining the grease stains, I know). Street stalls were fascinating to us, but totally killed our appetite when we saw how the dishes were washed in a bucket in the gutter. On a Li River boat trip between Guilin and Yangshuo, we ate family-style with total strangers, everyone dipping their chopsticks into the communal platters. And the chopsticks weren't the one-use wrapped-in-paper ones we are accustomed to here - they were reused, and you could see the ground-in finger grunge on the handles. We worried constantly about getting sick, and everyone in our group did sooner or later come down with an intestinal illness.
What we didn't like about Cambodia was the parts that reminded us of what we hadn't liked about China, the dirt and the greasyness of the food. We did like the temples at Angkor Wat and the hotel we stayed at nearby. And the River Reversing festival at Phnom Penh was fun, though loud. And I was recovering from a bad intestinal upset I got at Angkor.
I hope that things have improved in recent years. And though we had these negative reactions, I certainly don't regret that we went there, and would go again. But I would bring my own spoon and fork and pair of personal chopsticks. Plus a handfull of wrapped drinking straws for avoiding the dirt on top of cans and bottles of soft drinks and beers.
We were however enchanted with Burma and Laos, with their rural village way of life and the gentle peaceful people. The food was good (though in Burma it was mostly Indian food that we ate), and things seemed much cleaner.
We were in Vietnam just months before relations were normalized between the US and Vietnam, so we had to get our Visas by sending our passports to Ottawa! (And when we left, the stapled-in visas were removed from our passports, leaving no trace that we'd been there.) We were impressed with the industriousness of the people (lots of budding capitalists there, even then), and enjoyed the mixture of rural and urban life - right in the big cities you could hear roosters crowing in the morning from your hotel room and watch the hens pecking around on the neighboring rooftops. Though people generally treated us well, at Hoi An we rented bikes to ride out to a beach and on the way back to the hotel, we were "assaulted" by kids who all wanted to touch us. It reminded me of a birthday "spanking machine", being swatted at by so many people. Not an entirely pleasant experience!
I have a very long travelog of this whole trip (1993 Burma and Vietnam) that I think I should post as a separate thread...
Hope this has helped. Keep in mind that our experiences are rather dated and one can hope that things have improved.
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Post by hwinpp on Jan 12, 2011 7:15:29 GMT
China has had it's greatest changes in the last ten years, I'd give it another shot. Though I'm not sure they've stopped the spitting. They're certainly getting their 'smoking everywhere' under control though.
Re Cambodia it's the same. I arrived here a year after you were here and the changes between 2006 and 2008 alone must be as much as in the whole period between the demise of the KR and 2005.
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Post by tod2 on Jan 12, 2011 12:21:51 GMT
Many thanks Kimby - Your description fits with that of my son's who was there in 2007 & 2009. He detested seeing children playing in filthy gutters, dogs eating human faeces, and just the squalor and unhygenic conditions. We thought parts of South Africa were bad but although poor and living in shacks, most inhabitants keep clean and even are smart enough to work in an office enviroment. I am looking for an adventurous holiday but not one that would depress me with images that might haunt me for years to come. I guess this means sticking to the tourist routes, seeing all that's good about a strange new country and have a jolly nice time!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 12:23:16 GMT
I have avoided China so far and will start with Shanghai when I finally go.
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Post by tod2 on Jan 12, 2011 12:26:24 GMT
There's nothing like being Shanghai'd is there ;D
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Post by bjd on Jan 12, 2011 12:38:31 GMT
My son spent 4 months in Shanghai in 2009 and really liked it. He had previously (2005) spent a month in China (Shanghai, Yunnan, Shechuan and Peking), travelling in local trains.
He was sick the first time only when they went to a "fancy" westernized restaurant. The second time, he was never sick. he says you have to slowly adapt to eating local food and watch out for water and ice cubes.
Sure, lots of smoking and spitting, but also Shanghai is modernizing really fast. You have to make an effort to look for older places.
He had previously spent a year studying in Denmark and preferred China.
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Post by bjd on Jan 12, 2011 12:51:07 GMT
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Post by tod2 on Jan 12, 2011 15:28:59 GMT
I phoned a business associate today and he was enthusiastic about Korea but mentioned we should not miss going to Shanghai on this proposed trip. Also suggests we get a train from there to Zhenghou - a fabulous modern city. I'll Google that shortly. Well, the information is flowing in, thanks to Kimby who has put her trip report here, bjd and the great photos!
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