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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 4, 2017 18:46:51 GMT
I was going to put this on the debate thread, but I changed my mind, even though I am sure that any discussion will turn into a debate rather quickly -- and that's normal.
Current events have alarmed quite a few people around the world, but it is rather difficult to decide which country is more alarming -- North Korea itself or the country that keeps threatening it? North Korea's closest neighbours have learned to live with it over the years -- China finds it useful for cheap labour, goods and raw materials. South Korea is bound to it like a Siamese twin and can never really wish it any harm due to all of the family ties and shared culture and language. And Japan has the complicated situation of perhaps being responsible for all of this due to its horrible treatment of Korea when it was a bloodthirsty regional power. And all of these countries have religious philosophies which sort of understand the mindset of North Koreans and understand it, far more than the Occidental mind could ever do. This is not at all a defense of North Korea, but if I had to make a list of countries that I find are doing totally unacceptable things, the list would quickly have at least 10 other counties on it which would make me think of another 10 to add immediately. The world is not a perfect place, and those of us who live in "reasonable" countries should thank our lucky stars.
Anyway, in terms of what is happening now -- testing an H-bomb and all that -- I don't know what is being said in the United States, but after the initial shock, quite a few of the political analysts here are saying that the reaction of President Trump (and to a lesser extent the Asian allies) has only proven to North Korea that it did the right thing. It has always said that its weapons are defensive, and the reaction of a lot of the world has completely validated the fact that it needs to defend itself. (It is actually sort of a replay of the USA-USSR standoff that lasted for so many years -- neither country had any intention of invading the other one, but they both acted as though they were under a constant threat of attack.)
Naturally, the DPRK has done lots of shitty things over the years -- kidnapping people, assassinating dissidents -- but so have quite a few of our "allies." Would it have done these things if the rest of the world had been friendlier? Who knows?
I guess I'm an optimist, but I don't think that anybody is foolish enough to use nuclear weapons, no matter what posturing they might adopt to intimidate their opponents. So I have not really worried much about all of this rhetoric. I would not have worried at all if the two national leaders in question were not so weird.
To end on a happy note, a music video that I have always enjoyed. Music soothes the savage beast.
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Post by bjd on Sept 5, 2017 5:31:03 GMT
I hope that your optimism is justified. Only because it is on the opening pages of every news site I look at is it something I read. For some reason, I just cannot get interested in imminent nuclear problems, especially when they seem so unreal. I did live through the cold war, even though we didn't have bomb shelters in Canada or exercises where we had to crouch under our desks in classrooms.
But...the problem is that lunatic in the White House and this stupid, ignorant and uninformed woman he has put at the UN. This is where it gets really scary.
I get the impression that Kim Jong-Un is just rattling the lion's cage to get attention. At least I hope he wouldn't be stupid enough to actually send missiles to hit the US. China, of course, doesn't want thousands of N Korean refugees streaming across the border. But we don't know. Maybe he is just the N Korean equivalent of Trump.
There is/was a publication called The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists, with a clock showing a hand closer or further from 12:00. After the Berlin Wall came down, they were happy to announce that the hand had moved back. I don't know where it is now, but imagine it has moved much closer to 12.
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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 5, 2017 5:40:16 GMT
All my life media, schools, governments and assorted loudmouths have always tried to tell me whom to hate and/or fear at a given moment, and most people seem to go along with it. Not me, not anymore.
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Post by mickthecactus on Sept 5, 2017 12:10:27 GMT
Putin says sanctions are useless and that North Korea would rather eat grass than give up their nuclear programme. I think he's right.
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Post by bjd on Sept 5, 2017 13:43:37 GMT
I think that a few years ago, many North Koreans were eating grass because there was a famine. These are not the people who have anything to say about sanctions.
Of course,the chubby little leader isn't going to be eating any grass.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 5, 2017 17:20:11 GMT
Whereas I agree with your sentiments in Reply #2, it's hardly a reason to trust that North Korea's tubby scion of a psycho family tree will not make some terrible mistake with nuclear weapons. Slick videos and western luxury goods (undoubtedly only for the few) are hardly indications of an expanded world view and liberal outlook.
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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 5, 2017 19:17:39 GMT
One might tend to wonder if we are being given proper translations of what is being said.
I remember this from when I was 10 years old:
Even at that age, I recall that all of America (and Life magazine) repeated the "We will bury you" statement as though it were breaking news (it actually dates from November 18, 1956) and that the USSR was on the verge of attacking us (with or without shovels). Frankly, what I liked back then was the fact that jets would fly over our house on the Mississippi Gulf Coast every few days and shower us with wonderful sparkly strips of aluminium foil. This was supposed to jam nasty Soviet radar in Cuba, since Keesler air force base was only about 15 kilometres from our house and was apparently the #1 military target in the United States if an attack came from Cuba. Yay!
Back to the present, though -- geographic considerations have become meaningless over the years, except for countries like the DPRK which seem to have a bit of trouble mastering the necessary technology for sending their (defence?) weapons where they would want them to go. So, as we have all seen, they are working on it.
The always delightful and passionate Ri Chun-hee has made it very clear that North Korea will never attack unless attacked. Why should we not believe her?
In the meantime, there are more disturbing analyses from some other international specialists. What if Donald Trump is not as idiotic or unbalanced as a lot of people think that he is? After all, nobody denies that he has always been a rather astute businessman. At the moment, he is beating drums to try to get South Korea and Japan -- with promises to arm them -- to join the fray. And of course on the other side is China. If all of these countries suddenly fall for the scheme and engage in physical hostilities, President Trump will have made America great again! Eliminate the products from China, Japan and Korea, and the United States will have a chance to shine one last time.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 5, 2017 20:25:13 GMT
nobody denies that he has always been a rather astute businessman !!!!!!!!! ~ I don't want to derail this thread, but Tr*mp is hardly the genius businessman he claims to be, never mind that he started out with inherited wealth. Here is an article I chose at random (I did read it). One of the comments after the article says it all: 'Chapter 11 reorganisations', aka shafting your creditors. blogs.spectator.co.uk/2017/04/good-businessman-donald-trump/I rather think your last paragraph is an admirable attempt to foment discussion about all sides of the question, so will go with that flow. If the US eliminated all those products, it's true that Made in USA products would be bought in the US by default. But they'd be bought by fewer people, as there would be fewer who could afford them. Also, to whom would the US be exporting? And aren't "physical hostilities" between nations with nuclear capabilities either stand-off or one big devastating boom?
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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 29, 2017 18:00:08 GMT
On the French news today, there was a retrospective of North Korean threats going back all the way to 1976. "We will bomb" "We will use nuclear weapons" "We will obliterate" "There is no hope for our adversaries" etc. Almost every year was covered in the 21st century. Every single time, the president of the United States found words to appease North Korea and make the leader of the country calm down.
Until this year.
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