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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 4, 2022 22:44:07 GMT
Indeed food for difficult thought, Kimby.
This is also difficult. It's 4:40 pm CST where I am, so 12:40 a.m. in Ukraine. This should be a time when many would be peacefully sleeping in their own beds. The sound on the video at this time is continuous, ominous alarms. I left it on for a very few minutes & it provokes great anxiety and compassion for those poor people.
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Post by questa on Mar 5, 2022 0:14:28 GMT
I was able to read that editorial, Kimby and it reminded me of this...
1956 Soviet troops invaded Hungary and set about destroying Budapest. The people protested and fought back. Among them were 2 very nimble lads, 14 and 12. These 2 would climb up trees, wait for the end of a column of tanks, then drop quietly onto the last one then bang on the turret of the last tank . As the door opened they would throw in a Molotov Cocktail (a bottle with petrol and a rag wick)and the tanks fuel would quickly catch and explode.
They took out 30+ tanks and the Soviets were looking for them.
I was at a High School that had a head of languages who was Hungarian...a Professor of Something, and who had friends in high places. He was given leave to try to get the boys to Australia. We never found out how but he showed up at school in the last few weeks of the year, introducing the young heroes who attended classes in English. I have their autographs but can't read their names. I still remember how I looked at them thinking how mature and serious they looked in a bunch of childish brats.
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Post by Kimby on Mar 5, 2022 0:48:20 GMT
What an amazing story, questa!
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Post by Kimby on Mar 5, 2022 0:48:58 GMT
I can’t bring myself to listen, bixa…
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 5, 2022 1:21:52 GMT
It's only some kind of steady mechanical hum at the moment, Kimby. There is zero movement on the streets.
Questa's story illustrates how war can make children act and kill like adults.
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Post by questa on Mar 5, 2022 3:04:46 GMT
To keep it brief I left out the bit where the boys' sister was shot by a soldier . She was sitting on the front door-step, playing with a doll when a soldier tripped over her legs and fell down. In revenge he killed her so the boys rehearsed their gymnasium skills and the rest is history.
Thinking about this story stirred many feelings, it also let me remember the Professor's name. Doctor Bodeleai
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 5, 2022 16:56:19 GMT
Today was a major day all across the planet to demonstrate in support of Ukraine, so I joined the crowd.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 5, 2022 17:01:24 GMT
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 6, 2022 18:49:39 GMT
I have my fingers crossed for Mariupol and Odessa, but I am not feeling optimistic.
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Post by bjd on Mar 6, 2022 18:57:30 GMT
I don't know whether anyone will ever trust Putin again. Two days in a row there is supposedly a ceasefire in Mariupol to allow civilians to evacuate. As people begin to leave, the Russians start shelling.
I just heard on the news that even Erdogan, Putin's "friend", called him today to tell him to implement an immediate ceasefire and to allow humanitarian corridors.
And there was an interview with a retired French general who used to be the French military representative at the UN. He said that Putin cannot bomb Kiev into rubble because his supposed reason for invading was to save Ukrainians from their government. So he can't kill them all. That remains to be seen, I guess. But interestingly, he also said that time in on Ukraine's side. If they can keep fighting, the Russians are beginning to know what is going on, too many conscript soldiers are refusing to fight, and the oligarchs (or "Putin's mafia" as he called them, might get fed up with losing so much money and push Putin out.
Of course, the big losers will be Ukrainians -- their country and economy demolished, and people being killed.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 6, 2022 22:06:56 GMT
[retired French general] ... said that time in on Ukraine's side. The French were famously amongst those urging the US to not get stuck into Vietnam. There were various reasons it was a bad idea, but an abiding one was the most simple -- a country will always resist the invader. The scary part of all of this is that Putin may well be willing to kill everyone and everything "to save Ukrainians from their government", as he seems determined to get his way regardless.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Mar 6, 2022 22:28:12 GMT
Awful lot of Russian money in the uk. Parliament should vote through sanctions in a debate tomorrow. The government talked abour giving them 6 months notice...the opposition reckons 28 days is more reasonable..but it still gives the oligarchs time to sign all their assets over to their wives and family...
The Polish are talking aboutgiving the Ukrainians military aircraft and the US say that they would probably 'backfill' but it feels like it's escalating. American Express and Visa have ceased operating in Russia..or are going to. No facebook or Twitter either, but I think that's Putin...
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Mar 6, 2022 22:28:41 GMT
Excellent photos K x
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Post by questa on Mar 7, 2022 0:27:41 GMT
The eyes have it...look at the faces, so many have seen this before.
What Putin wants is an arch like this with his name on it...or tear up the sketches forever. Take 6.7 minutes of your day and listen to Mussorgsky's "Great Gate at Kiev" (Douglas Gamley conductor has the better version) Sorry I can't attach link, just dumb. Here are details...
Mussorgsky. . . . . . . Great Gate at Kiev . . . . . . Douglas Gamley
The gate was designed and rough sketches were made, but it never got built.
Let Google be your friend.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 7, 2022 7:00:54 GMT
France is now bickering with the UK again because Ukrainian refugees are piling up in Calais and the United Kingdom refuses to let them in without visas. First there were 250 of them but now there are more than a 1000. Such careless people! Didn't they know they were supposed to apply for visas before becoming refugees?
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Post by bjd on Mar 7, 2022 8:57:11 GMT
Perhaps things would move things faster if there weren't so many oligarch's donations to the Tory party? It's easy to apply pressure when you own the money tap and can turn it off.
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 7, 2022 9:46:51 GMT
Just curious, what's so attractive about coming to the UK? Is France or wherever not what they want?
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Post by mickthecactus on Mar 7, 2022 9:53:36 GMT
It’s bash Britain morning. We haven’t had one for a while.
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Post by mickthecactus on Mar 7, 2022 9:54:25 GMT
What did Engels say 178 years ago?
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 7, 2022 11:06:47 GMT
Just curious, what's so attractive about coming to the UK? Is France or wherever not what they want? Apparently, the vast majority of them have family in the UK and they would like to stay with them until they can return home.
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Post by whatagain on Mar 7, 2022 11:32:19 GMT
Just read interesting figures about the crisis.
Yes, i like figures, you can make them lie, but up to a point.
So it seems : GBp of Russia would be 1500 billions USD. Less than Italy, less than half of Germany. Expected to be a lot less in 2022 since rubbke went down by 30 pc (but unaffecting oil) and sanctions.
Cost of war is given about 20 billuobs usd a day. Covers loss of material, oil consumption, ammo. Cost of life is integrated but not in the long term.
So 14 days of war = 280 billions, or 20pc of GDP. Mathematically, 2 months of war equals one year of GDP. No idea how long Russia can sustain this.
Cost of life is given as 500 KIA by Russia, 6000 by Ukraine. If we take 3000, it is 1.5pc of the manpower. Add the wounded (6000, same ratio as WW2 : 2 wounded for one dead), pows + deserters = 10 000 mimimun. 5pc of the troops. Huge. If Russians enter Kiev, we can expect Stalingrad like close combat. Could Russia suatain such losses ? Is it the reason they have not entered it ?
Add internal unrest. Difficult to estimate but there are demonstrations against the war. What if Russians go on strike ?
Putin will face tough decisions. And sooner that he would like to.
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 7, 2022 12:20:07 GMT
For Sama is a very edifying documentary.
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 7, 2022 12:20:14 GMT
K2, understood.
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Post by mickthecactus on Mar 7, 2022 12:45:30 GMT
We haven't managed to sort Afghanistan refugees yet....
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Post by onlyMark on Mar 7, 2022 13:52:39 GMT
As far as I understand it, France only accepts Ukrainians who have a biometric passport, otherwise - "If you are Ukrainian and wish to enter France but you do not have a biometric passport or travel documents, you can go to a consular post in a country bordering Ukraine (for example Poland, Romania, Hungary etc.) so that your situation can be studied." Same when ETIAS comes in at the end of the year (which will apply to all non-Schengen countries?). Not looked but I suppose it is/will be the same for all Schengen countries?
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Post by kerouac2 on Mar 7, 2022 14:19:32 GMT
Since Poland is part of the Schengen zone, the Ukrainians accepted in Poland can go anywhere else in the zone without additional formalities. Getting proper documentation if they want to stay is another matter. Desperate people often ignore the rules and officials often close their eyes.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 7, 2022 15:15:33 GMT
Just read interesting figures about the crisis. Yes, i like figures, you can make them lie, but up to a point. So it seems : GBp of Russia would be 1500 billions USD. Less than Italy, less than half of Germany. Expected to be a lot less in 2022 since rubbke went down by 30 pc (but unaffecting oil) and sanctions. Cost of war is given about 20 billuobs usd a day. Covers loss of material, oil consumption, ammo. Cost of life is integrated but not in the long term. So 14 days of war = 280 billions, or 20pc of GDP. Mathematically, 2 months of war equals one year of GDP. No idea how long Russia can sustain this. Cost of life is given as 500 KIA by Russia, 6000 by Ukraine. If we take 3000, it is 1.5pc of the manpower. Add the wounded (6000, same ratio as WW2 : 2 wounded for one dead), pows + deserters = 10 000 mimimun. 5pc of the troops. Huge. If Russians enter Kiev, we can expect Stalingrad like close combat. Could Russia suatain such losses ? Is it the reason they have not entered it ? Add internal unrest. Difficult to estimate but there are demonstrations against the war. What if Russians go on strike ? Putin will face tough decisions. And sooner that he would like to. Quoting this because I found it so interesting. Was all of this from one source, or from a variety of news outlets? And yeah -- what would happen if the Russian people pulled off a general strike?
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Post by bjd on Mar 7, 2022 16:02:30 GMT
what would happen if the Russian people pulled off a general strike? So far, too many Russians still believe their government's propaganda.
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Post by whatagain on Mar 7, 2022 19:02:53 GMT
Thanks Bixa. Multiple sources, some in my mind (ratio WIA/KIA, close combat in cities...).
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Post by bjd on Mar 7, 2022 20:02:05 GMT
I learned that starting this morning, our town is collecting supplies to be sent to Ukraine. I hope others are better organized. I packed a bag with medical supplies (bandages, 90° alcohol, sterile pads) as well as toothpaste and stuff like that. The place named on the town's website was all closed when I arrived. I finally found someone who told me that they had changed location. When I found it, I asked if they needed volunteers. "The director isn't here" -- this was 15 minutes after its first opening day -- "but you can phone."
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