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Post by hwinpp on Aug 26, 2009 10:51:47 GMT
Please have a look at my English translation of the original in Italian. Are there any glaring mistakes? It's a letter of invitation and will be given to the German embassy (they take care of the Italians affairs).
LETTERA D’INVITO PER AFFARI
Il sottoscritto DAVIDE RONCAGLIA nato a Sassuolo (Mo) il 29.03.1955 e residente in Castellarano (RE) , di nazionalità Italiana, quale rappresentante legale della ditta Edilgres, Industrie Fincuoghi spa con sede in Sassuolo (MO), Via Radici in Piano 675. Consapevole delle conseguenze previste dall’art. 12 comma 1 del decreto legislativo 24 luglio 1998 nr. 286
Con la presente comunica di voler invitare per motivi d’affari il seguente cittadino stranieri:
XXX
Il sottoscritto dichiara altresì:
1. di avere con la ditta Italy Tiles rapporti commerciali inerenti la loro attività in Cambogia 2. di conoscere personalmente il suddetto signore Si richiede pertanto, visti i rapporti commerciali in essere, l’emissione di un visto per il suddetto signore per il mese di settembre/ottobre in occasione della fiera Internazionale CERSAIE 2009 che si terra’ in Bologna.
Letter of Invitation for Business Purpose
The undersigned, DAVIDE RONCAGLIA, born in Sassuolo (Mo) on 29.03.1955 and living in Castellarano (Re), of Italian nationality, legal representative of above mentioned EDILGRES, Industrie Fincuoghi Ltd., located in Sassuolo (Mo), Via Radici in Piano 675,
aware of the consequences previewed in article 12,1 of the legislative decree of 24. July 1998 number 286,
presents you with this request to invite below mentioned foreign citizen for business affairs/ reasons:
XXX
The undersigned also declares:
- of having inherent active trade relations with the company Italy Tiles in Cambodia - knowing the abovementioned gentleman personally
Because of the existing business relationship we therefore request issuing a visa for abovementioned gentleman for the months of September/October on the occasion of the international fair CERSAIE 2009 taking place in Bologna.
Thanks!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2009 11:53:19 GMT
Here's my own take on the letter, but I confess that I sometimes simplify certain terms ("the consequence of") when the language of diplomacy may not permit it
Letter of Invitation for Business Purposes
The undersigned, DAVIDE RONCAGLIA, born in Sassuolo (Mo) on 29.03.1955 and living in Castellarano (Re), of Italian nationality, legal representative of above mentioned EDILGRES, Industrie Fincuoghi Ltd., located in Sassuolo (Mo), Via Radici in Piano 675,
aware of the consequences previewed in terms of article 12,1 of the legislative decree of 24. July 1998 number 286,
presents you with this request to invite below mentioned foreign citizen for business affairs/ reasons:
XXX
The undersigned also declares:
- of having inherent active trade relations with the company Italy Tiles in Cambodia - knowing the above-mentioned gentleman personally
Because of the existing business relationship we therefore request issuing the issuance of a visa for the above-mentioned gentleman for the months of September/October on the occasion of the international fair CERSAIE 2009 taking place in Bologna.
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Post by lagatta on Aug 26, 2009 13:04:37 GMT
Hello hwinpp,
I saw this when I first logged on but hadn't had my morning coffee yet and my brain was too foggy. Then I got logged off. I'll look it over and get back to you. Kerouac's correction is good; I may have a couple of sub-edits to make.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2009 13:09:40 GMT
'Renzo will take over from here is what you're really trying to say isn't it L?
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Post by lagatta on Aug 26, 2009 13:26:23 GMT
Letter of Invitation for Business Purposes
The undersigned, DAVIDE RONCAGLIA, born in Sassuolo (Mo) on 29.03.1955, a resident of Castellarano (Re), of Italian nationality, legal representative of the firm EDILGRES, Industrie Fincuoghi Ltd., headquartered in Sassuolo (Mo), Via Radici in Piano 675,
aware of the consequences forseen in terms of article 12,1 of the legislative decree of 24 July 1998 number 286,
presents you with this request to invite the below-mentioned foreign citizen for business purposes:
XXX
The undersigned also declares:
- that he has active trade relations with the company Italy Tiles, pertaining to their activity in Cambodia - that he knows the above-mentioned gentleman personally
In view of the existing business relationship we therefore request issuing the issuance of a visa for the above-mentioned gentleman for the months of September/October on the occasion of the international fair CERSAIE 2009 taking place in Bologna.
(I changed "living in" to "resident of" as that has a specific meaning in Italian law).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2009 13:26:49 GMT
I don't officially speak Italian at all, but that sort of text is crystal clear in any latin language.
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Post by hwinpp on Aug 27, 2009 1:35:52 GMT
Thank you, thank you! Lagatta and Jack. I owe you. I also got the gist and knew what kind of style to expect but not knowing if some things had gone 180 degrees wrong. What I didn't get at first was the 'vista' in the last paragraph until I realised it's the direct translation of visa. Thanks again, you two.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 27, 2009 1:49:46 GMT
Don't forget Renzo,the brains of the outfit.
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Post by lagatta on Aug 27, 2009 2:08:19 GMT
Yes, "vista" is tricky, because visto or vista can also be a past tense or past participle of the verb "vedere" (voir) and could mean something like "seeing that", or a more formal synonym, in such a text.
Renzo will accept payment in seafood form.
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Post by hwinpp on Aug 27, 2009 5:04:23 GMT
I thought Renzo was Lagatta's cat?
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Post by bixaorellana on Aug 27, 2009 6:19:23 GMT
#s 2 & 3 above, HW.
I want all of you men to admit it: none of you read any higher than whatever post(s) show on the screen, do you?
Wouldn't want to wear out that scroll bar.
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Post by bazfaz on Aug 27, 2009 17:17:45 GMT
I am saddened there is no Party of the First Part, Hereunder, Notwithstanding or Without prejudice.
This is not a proper legal documant.
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Post by hwinpp on Aug 28, 2009 5:52:06 GMT
Baz, there's an 'undersigned' in there somewhere. I think the worst legalese English is the Indian version. Lots of Party of the First Part, Hereunder, Notwithstanding or Without prejudice and then some...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2009 21:35:58 GMT
I have to use "above-mentioned" at the office quite a bit and cringe each time. However, I refuse to use "hereunder" and use "following" instead.
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Post by hwinpp on Aug 31, 2009 4:20:32 GMT
I met the person who wrote the original on Saturday evening for dinner. She said had she known we'd need it in English she'd have written it in English. What she didn't know was that the Germans handle Italian stuff here... How did those two get together?
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Post by fumobici on Aug 31, 2009 21:46:52 GMT
This isn't Italian, this is the stultifyingly impenetrable patois of suits. It is even essentially incomprehensible to native speakers unfamiliar with it.
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Post by bixaorellana on Aug 31, 2009 23:51:54 GMT
In all fairness .......
There is an excellent reason for the use of legalese, that being the use of terms that have set meanings not open to interpretation. It doesn't make for pleasant reading, but it might make for an airtight document.
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Post by lagatta on Sept 1, 2009 1:10:36 GMT
Agree with bixa, having done a lot of that kind of translation. It has NOTHING to do with the English, German, Italian or anything else spoken by normal human beings.
As for Germans and Italians, one hate to mention the Axis... another take on "Don't mention the war"...
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Post by hwinpp on Sept 2, 2009 7:58:49 GMT
My brother's birth certificate was issued by the Italian consulate in Jeddah... suspicious!
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 2, 2009 17:02:31 GMT
Does he avoid pasta during Ramadan?
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Post by lagatta on Sept 2, 2009 18:26:20 GMT
He can eat all the pasta he wants ... after sundown. Vino and prosciutto are more problematic, however.
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Post by bjd on Sept 4, 2009 15:00:22 GMT
I'm pretty pleased with myself. Yesterday my neighbour, who is of Italian origin, came round with a letter to be translated from Italian to French. His daughter works at the hospital in the pathology department and they couldn't find anyone to read it.? Anyway, I used my trusty old Garzanti and figured out that they were just asking for another piece of paper before sending the requested file. But such flowery language!! At least it wasn't legalese.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2009 18:20:45 GMT
I often advise people to write such letters in their own language, because somebody will almost always be found who can read it, whereas certain 'dictionary translations' that people try to send are completely incomprehensible to everybody.
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