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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2009 5:13:04 GMT
Sometimes we are aware of expressions or words that we don't even understand, but we know where to place them in a sentence so we sometimes use them anyway. This might be even more obscure than usual, but I was using the term " to be given short shrift" the other day and suddenly it hit me that I don't have the slightest idea what the word 'shrift' means. Yet the meaning of this expression is so subtle that it would take me a whole paragraph to try to explain it to someone. Are there any words or expressions that you use without understanding what you are really saying?
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 8, 2009 5:17:03 GMT
I could look it up, but it will be more fun to guess, then find out if the guesses were even close.
Would "shrift" be from shrive, as in "forgiven" -- like Shrove Tuesday?
I know the meaning of the phrase, but what would "short shrift" be?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2009 5:27:50 GMT
Funny, not looking it up either (yet), but I would think more along the lines of some sort of nautical term.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 8, 2009 6:11:59 GMT
That could work. What made you think of something nautical?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2009 6:46:27 GMT
The idea of tying up something tightly, so that it can move a tiny bit but not much (but it could also be a horse, like short rein).
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 8, 2009 7:02:00 GMT
Maybe I don't really know what the expression means. I thought it was something on the order of not being given ones due in terms of attention -- a more refined version of the bum's rush.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2009 7:22:03 GMT
Maybe I don't really know what the expression means. I thought it was something on the order of not being given ones due in terms of attention -- a more refined version of the bum's rush. Yes, that's how I understand it as well, but it still makes me think of a tight leash type thing, due to the word 'short'.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2009 7:25:01 GMT
I looked it up. With your immense religious background, you were right the first time.
Official meaning: brief and unsympathetic attention
A shrift is a penance (a prescribed penalty) imposed by a priest in a confession in order to provide absolution, often when the confessor was near to death. In the 17th century, criminals were sent to the scaffold immediately after sentencing and only had time for a 'short shrift' before being hanged.
Okay, now we have to think of another odd expression...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2009 8:26:23 GMT
I just used this elsewhere and realized that I don't know the exact meaning:
to be in a huff
Obviously, this is the same as in the 3 little pigs "I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your house down!" -- but I don't know what kind of breathing it is. I would have thought something along the lines of 'panting' for someone who is huffy, but I don't see why the nasty wolf would huff, unless it is merely for the rhyme. Huffing wouldn't be very effective for destroying a house if it means panting. (Not looking in the dictionary yet!)
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Post by imec on Sept 8, 2009 14:16:25 GMT
I always thought it referred to that sound made by expelling air quickly through almost closed lips (as when making the f or ph sound) when one is indignant.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 8, 2009 17:07:16 GMT
I think both of you are semi-correct. I'd say a huff is when you forcefully expel air with and audible HUNH! sound -- i.e., not really using the lips at all. And you'd need puffing to go with huffing for blowing houses down because puffing would be drawing in a big bunch of air in order to huff it back out. Why do you think a puffer fish has "puff' in its name? <-- before & after puffing So, to be in a huff would be all ticked off and sort of fluffed up and making that HUNH! noise.
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Post by Kimby on Sept 8, 2009 17:08:50 GMT
Maybe the huff is an inhalation and the puff is an exhalation? Therefore you can't puff and blow the house down without huffing first.
Also teenagers (and others) "huff" drugs, which one would presume meant an intake rather than an exhalation.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2009 17:21:37 GMT
I used to huff drugs when I was in the clink and then it was total bedlam. (Our British readers will have absolutely no trouble with either of those words.)
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 9, 2009 17:26:26 GMT
Mmmmm. I think it's just the opposite, Kimby. And the "huffing drugs" expression is not really a clue. Remember the common expression for fellatio, which is hardly descriptive.
Isn't "in the clink" heard in all those 1930s American movies -- the gangster ones and the Bowery Boys flicks, for instance? And "bedlam" used in the sense above entered the English (and American) language decades ago -- probably more than a century ago.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2009 17:54:06 GMT
Yes, but do you know the origin of those words? I already knew bedlam, but I just learned clink recently.
The Clink was a notorious prison in Southwark, England which functioned from the 12th century until 1780 either deriving its name from, or bestowing it on, the local manor, the Clink Liberty (see also the Liberty of the Clink). The manor and prison were owned by the Bishop of Winchester and situated next to his residence at Winchester Palace. The Clink was possibly the oldest men's prison and probably the oldest women's prison in England.
The Bethlem Royal Hospital of London is a psychiatric hospital in Beckenham, south east London. Although no longer in its original location and buildings, it is recognised as the world's first and oldest institution to specialise in the mentally ill. It has been variously known as St. Mary Bethlehem, Bethlem Hospital, Bethlehem Hospital and Bedlam.
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Post by cristina on Sept 9, 2009 17:57:54 GMT
An expression I have always wondered about is: make no bones about it. I know how to use it, but have no idea of its origin.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 9, 2009 19:11:07 GMT
Huh! I knew bedlam, but had no idea where clink was from, nor how old.
Yeah -- make no bones about it .......... how did that one come about?
What's the consensus on being in a huff? Is it time to look it up yet?
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Post by tillystar on Sept 10, 2009 9:15:29 GMT
I knew were clink came from as I walk past it a couple of times a week. It is now a museum with a man in cage hanging outside that I get some kind of warped pleasure from everytime I go by.
On a similiar note, I recently found out why a prison warden is called "a screw", any ideas?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2009 14:18:38 GMT
They used to tighten the shackles?
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 10, 2009 15:50:13 GMT
Digression: Tilly ~ you would love this book.
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Post by Kimby on Sept 10, 2009 16:12:36 GMT
What's the consensus on being in a huff? Is it time to look it up yet? Well, the P at the front of "puff" is definitely a breath-out phonetic sound, and a puff of wind - or breath - blows out the candle. But H seems to be pretty hard to make as a breath-in sound, so guess you'd better look it up.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 10, 2009 16:23:19 GMT
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Post by Kimby on Sept 10, 2009 16:28:53 GMT
Main Entry: 1huff Pronunciation: \ˈhəf\ Function: verb Etymology: imitative Date: 1583 intransitive verb 1 a : to emit puffs (as of breath or steam) b : to proceed with labored breathing <huffed up to the peak> 2 a : to make empty threats : bluster b : to react or behave indignantly transitive verb 1 archaic : to treat with contempt 2 : to make angry 3 : to utter with indignation or scorn 4 : to inhale (noxious fumes) through the mouth for the euphoric effect produced by the inhalant
so I'm right if we're defining the transitive verb "huff", but bixa wins if we define the intransitive verb "huff"
(will someone please define "transitive" and "intransitive" for me?)
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Post by hwinpp on Sept 11, 2009 7:15:49 GMT
A verb with a direct object is transitive... forgotten the rest. But it has something to do with the object.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 13, 2009 5:20:03 GMT
Here's one that may be obvious to everyone else, but has always confused me:
till the cows come home
What does that mean? It's always said to indicate some indefinitely long period of time, but if you say, "I'm willing to wait until the cows come home" at 5:45, and the cows come home at six, you're not really putting yourself out much.
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Post by patricklondon on Sept 14, 2009 15:50:55 GMT
My copy of Eric Partridge's Dictionary of Historical Slang gives a singular version (Till the cow come home) as from England in 1610, with a plural form coming from the US, and more common in Canada, Australia and NZ from the early 19th century onwards. No explanation - but maybe the idea is that cows tend to wander off and not come home of their own accord but have to be called (or do they?)
And what about "donkey's years"?
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Post by hwinpp on Sept 15, 2009 11:13:42 GMT
Actually I think cows come home without needing to be called regularly at the same time. Usually at dusk. So people have to wait until it gets dark.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2009 11:21:25 GMT
Some people are so impatient.
In France, sometimes things don't happen until Saint Glin-Glin's feast day. Naturally, if you check a calendar of saints, that is no time soon since it doesn't exist, i.e. "when hens have teeth."
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 15, 2009 14:39:39 GMT
Ahhh ~~ that is like my dad's "second Tuesday of next week".
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Post by imec on Sept 15, 2009 14:46:58 GMT
And what about "donkey's years"? Yeah, I mentioned that earlier too, PL. My Dad used that a lot but would also substitute "a pig's age" at times. Another odd one that he (and other English relatives) would use was "I'm sweating cobs!" to denote they were too hot.
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