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Post by Don Cuevas on Nov 6, 2009 1:32:43 GMT
This thread is depressing.
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Post by Kimby on Nov 20, 2009 0:45:22 GMT
Actually, the time of year has a lot to do with it. Those of us undergoing the change from long days of summer to long nights of winter are experiencing mood changes due to day length and melatonin and such things. Some people get lethargic, some pack on the calories as if heading for hibernation (and in a way, we are), and others get very blue.
For some, it's necessary to sit under a full-spectrum fluorescent light in the dark hours of morning to lengthen the day and chase away the blues.
Meanwhile, our friends in the southern hemisphere are feeling their mood lighten and are mildly anorexic with summer joy!
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Post by lagatta on Nov 20, 2009 2:23:20 GMT
I take it you are in Montana, not Florida. Yes, Florida is in the Northern hemispere, but it doesn't have very significant light changes.
I'm really, really affected by this, and one day I did fall into the eating carbs - I can't afford to do that (no, I'm not morbidly obese or anything near that, but I'm small and plumpish and it doesn't take a lot of weight gain for such a body type to blow up). Thank the Cat Goddess that it has been mild and unusually sunny and I really try to organize my days so I can go for a brisk bicycle ride every day - problem is, it gets dark so early and unlike in Scandinavia, a lot of the bicycle paths close after the 15th of November. If I get enough exercise, I'm fine, if not bluesville. Yesterday I got in just a token ride; had time for an hour or so today.
I detest very strong artificial lighting - are those full-spectrum lights shielded in any way? (If not, nausea).
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Post by Kimby on Nov 20, 2009 4:44:14 GMT
It's a special vertical light fixture designed for treating S.A.D. - an appropriate acronym for seasonal affect disorder, don't you think? You stand it on the table facing you while you read your morning paper. Or something like that. It extends your daylight enough to fool your body into thinking it isn't really winter.
And yes, in Montana. I only get to spend about 4 weeks a year at the Florida place, though that may increase as my husband eases toward retirement over the next few years.
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Post by bixaorellana on Dec 3, 2009 17:25:07 GMT
S.A.D. obviously is a real thing, but it is odd that humans have never fully adapted to lessened light in winter, isn't it?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 12:53:58 GMT
Time of year,impending holidays,financial strains. This past week have heard more sad,desperate stories of acquaintances and loved ones in emotional turmoil. Two long termed married couples I know have split,one attempted suicide and lying in an ICU bed.Many friends with elderly parents and dilemmas on that front. Very gloomy indeed. But,then I think of my own parents and grandparents and how they at times struggled with not near the amount of resources available to them. Are we a society of whiners on anti depressants sitting in front of feel better seasonal lighting apparatus complaining into our keyboards?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2009 18:50:41 GMT
I love the darkness of winter. (And I like the other seasons, too.)
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Post by bixaorellana on Dec 7, 2009 17:12:09 GMT
Are we a society of whiners on anti depressants sitting in front of feel better seasonal lighting apparatus complaining into our keyboards? Maybe it's that we live in a more enlightened and compassionate age? Probably in the past, many people suffering from depression were dismissed as lazy or "sickly" or in "that time of life" -- any number of things that did not address the problem or the pain.
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Post by fumobici on Dec 7, 2009 22:38:11 GMT
Unfortunately the widespread "awareness" or classification and diagnosis of psychiatric disorders isn't always an artifact of enlightment or compassion. It is also the basis of a giant and hugely profitable industry from big pharma drugging people and even children in unprecedented and experimental ways to the self help and counseling industries. Sometimes compassion and awareness can be astonishingly lucrative.
The common diagnosis of psychiatric disorders in children "requiring" treatment with powerful and dangerous psychotropic drugs is worrying to me. I doubt children are subject to these issues more now than they were 50 or 100 years ago, but now they are routinely drugged and in most cases there is no plan to ever discontinue the "treatment". They will be taking these drugs for as long as they can be payed for or until the patient dies.
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Post by bixaorellana on Dec 7, 2009 22:48:15 GMT
That is frightening, Fumobici!
I had no idea. I did know that several years ago kids considered to be hyperactive were given Ridalin. Since kids vary in liveliness, you have to wonder how many normally active children were doped.
Really scary and barbaric.
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Post by existentialcrisis on Dec 10, 2009 10:43:46 GMT
Ritalin is/was quite overprescribed... so much so that I could easily buy it in university.
University is where I realized how messed up everyone is. In high school I remember feeling depressed and angstful and isolated. But when I lived in close proximity to my peers, in residence and apartments, I realized that everyone has problems. Unfortunately, it started to feel like half of the people I knew were on anti-depressents (SSRIs) or a similar medication. Generally, anyone who went to see a doctor about their mental health was diagnosed with "borderline personality disorder". Whatever that is. I just feel like I knew too many people who were depressed beyond help.
I have been depressed in my school years. Fortunately, I have always been very self-aware and was eventually able to overcome those feelings and figure stuff out. If I become sad now, it's usually more of a melancholy, and I enjoy listening to the sad songs of my past as a sort of hermaneutic exercise ... and indeed, I was much more creative when I was much more sad. Now that I'm a happy person, I'm more interested in living life than writing about it. I think when people are sad, everything is much more serious - so they listen to serious music. When people are happy, they listen to happy-go-lucky music. I enjoy the bittersweet melancholy from time to time...
The pills, which I would never have taken, are supposed to level you out so that you can tackle your problems with a clear head, then slowly go off the pills. The problem is, the majority of the people who get a prescription of this sort from a doctor, rarely go for a follow up. They never discuss whether the pill prescribed to them is really right for them. An even bigger problem is that SSRI's have been shown to produce suicidal thoughts in some people. Scary.
Personally, I don't think a chemical problem can only be only be corrected with chemicals. I think our chemical composition is too closely integrated with our consciousness... but what do I know?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2009 15:55:34 GMT
I am very much in sync with what you say Existential C. (do you have a nick name ,so funny typing out. I truly believe people are too quick to medicate. Looking for quick fixes and don't follow up on ,mix with alcohol etc. It's distressing to see a whole cadre of the youth out there on medication. One of the main reasons I got out of working in that field. BandAid therapy.
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Post by bixaorellana on Dec 10, 2009 16:04:37 GMT
(she gave me permission to call her "Existentia")
The situation seems to be completely out of hand. Someone very, very close to me went to therapist to talk about his depression. He was well aware that it was due to very real reasons -- the usual stressful markers, such as moving and change of job, but also some dramatic, even traumatic, events and tragedies that had all happened within one year. The therapist immediately sent him to a doctor, who waved a prescription at him as he walked through the door. The person in question was outraged, pointing out to the doctor that no health check had been done, not even basic questions, including whether or not the potential patient was on other medication. He didn't want drugs, simply a way to get a handle on a difficult emotional period in his life.
If this is how cavalierly psychoactive drugs are dispensed, shouldn't they simply be sold over the counter? The "trained professionals" giving them out are simply licensed drug dealers.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2009 16:17:24 GMT
The "Golden Age" of Psychiatry as I refer to it ended when insurance companies stopped paying for meaningful therapy and the pharmaceutical companies got on the train and have been running it ever since. None of the physicians confer with one another,sometimes beyond the insistence of the client/patient. It's been going South for a while.General Practitioners dole out this stuff like candy. They have tried to force on me more than once. I censor what I tell them but only because I have a little bit of savvy in that area.Most don't know and take the Drs. word as sacrosanct.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2009 19:43:58 GMT
I was very depressed at one time, and one of my extremely medically inclined friends was determined to force me out of it. "I'm calling a psychiatrist! You need medication!" I refused and he gave up, because one thing that I have always felt about my own depressions is that they need to be experienced to the fullest. The thought of just taking a pill and feeling better seems like a fate worse than death to me.
It would mean that all of my feelings were completely discredited and invalidated.
Does anybody understand what I am saying?
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Post by bixaorellana on Dec 10, 2009 20:11:09 GMT
I think I know what you mean. I also think most normal depression is like bad weather -- unpleasant to endure, but containing the promise that it will go away again. And there is the feeling that it is somehow necessary, that in the process of gritting your teeth and bearing it, you might learn something and become stronger.
Obviously, if a depression is so severe that a person's unrelieved suffering puts him in danger of becoming suicidal, some form of intervention is needed ............ but not automatically medication, in every single case.
As far as your "fate worse than death" remark -- it seems to me that muffling depression with medication means that the depression is still there, and that going off the medication could cause a crash effect that would lead to such crippling depression that a person might consider death as a release.
I don't know if this is still done, but when I was younger it was common to hear that the doctor had visited a just-widowed woman and "had given her something". I always thought this was barbaric, that the artificial stifling of grief would backfire and later manifest as an array of other psychic problems.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2009 11:40:20 GMT
Never heard this before Bixa. What would Dr. give to recent widow? How bizarre. I know exactly what you're talking about K. These "situational" type depressions can be very cathartic. I do think though,that it takes a special person to cope with and use to gain some insight into. Maybe indulge in a tad.It depends on how crippling this depression can become and turn into a clinical depression that will eventually consume the psyche. Many people do not emerge from. There is a reluctance for people to not give psychic pain it's just due. It can be a fine,fine line.
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Post by existentialcrisis on Dec 11, 2009 14:38:45 GMT
Names people in the forum have called me, and are just fine to use: Existentia EC Miss Crisis ... ha, can't remember who used that one, but it's cute.
Anyway, I agree with Casimira about there being a fine line. And I agree with K2 about the importance of living these feelings out. Personally, I've always had the strength and wisdom to get a higher perspective on my darker moments ... they were all important, I learned from them and I wouldn't take them back. But some people, for whatever reason, are entirely crippled by depression. I've known several people who just seemed... helpless. I think depression becomes scary when it stops being an intense, full, overwhelming sadness and becomes an empty, void meaninglessness.
I remember feeling so indignant when I was having some troubles in university and I went to see the campus councellor. My biggest issue was that I was having problems concentrating, and I thought maybe she would recommend a prescription to ritalin, since I was using it anyway. Instead, she offered to write up a recommendation for SSRIs. Since I was using ritalin "recreationally", she was worried I'd abuse it. I don't like how doctors and counsellors are able to decide what I can put into my body. Why is ritalin bad and SSRIs okay? So I walked away from the office and continued the typical university student's self-medication with alcohol.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2009 11:36:54 GMT
How about 'Madame Ex'? You seem to have good insight.Many people do not,are not in touch with their feelings for whatever reason. I see so many young people doing just what I did and what you mentioned,self medicating.I also unfortunately,can see where many are already in a downward spiral. Can tell by the look in their eyes.Makes me feel so very helpless.But,no one could have told me either. People need to sometimes bottom out before they reach for help.For some it's too late.
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Post by existentialcrisis on Dec 13, 2009 12:58:30 GMT
Everyone has a different "rock bottom". For some it's close to death. For me, it was still quite high above what it could have been. Still, I felt, at the time, that I had to experience this rock bottom. I had, somehow, to fail...... in order to feel my limits, to get a better sense of reality.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2009 14:27:38 GMT
I have come to believe or perhaps feel more comfortable with "personal bottom" versus "rock bottom".,"rock" sounding too ominous although some people's bottoms are indeed "rock". Hope that made sense
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2009 16:40:50 GMT
I, for example, have never been so depressed that I have totally lost my appetite, like I have seen some people do. Yes, I have missed a meal from time to time, but that's about the extent of it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2009 18:21:31 GMT
The only time I stop eating is whenever I fall in love. I've been known to lose up to 20 pounds in weight.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2009 18:31:09 GMT
Isn't being in love often the same as being depressed?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2009 18:34:45 GMT
well, not really. It's more of an heightened anxious state to be. You know, does he really like me? Is he going to phone again soon? Should I say this or that or not? etc. etc..
The more you like him, the less you feel like eating. Well, at least that's how it affects me.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2009 21:43:28 GMT
I, for example, have never been so depressed that I have totally lost my appetite, like I have seen some people do. Yes, I have missed a meal from time to time, but that's about the extent of it. It seems to go in both extremes,some depressed people cannot stop eating or lose appetite completely.Usually,don't here of one having a "normal" appetite when depressed.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2010 11:48:17 GMT
I am pulling this thread back up in the hopes that maybe some of our newer members may have some insight into. Or,some of us who contributed to it previously,may have some new found insight . This past weekend,my dear friend who was visiting,posed this question and we talked about at great length. It still intrigues me greatly.
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Post by spindrift on Mar 22, 2010 12:23:14 GMT
My best friend has come to me for help and advice. Although she has three doctors in her family they have all dismissed her downward-spiral as 'virus' and assure her that 'she will be all right soon'.....Hmmmmm
I, on the other hand, ordered a Stress test kit for her from a well-known laboratory that does all kinds of bio-chemical tests. As a practitioner I can do this. This test involves putting a given amount of saliva into four separate test tubes at different times of the day. First one is collected on waking.....the next is collected 4/5 hours later, ...the next 4/5 hours later..and the last one is collected just prior to sleep. All the samples of saliva are analysed for their contents of Cortisoland DHEA which are hormones secreted by the adrenal glands.....cortisol finally breaks down to adrenaline and nor-adrenaline and DHEA to serotonin.
My friend had difficulty producing the small required amounts of saliva...a dry mouth is a sign of high stress/deep depression.....
The results came back showing that her DHEA levels were within the reference range but that her cortisol levels were all outside the reference range , that is, she had high cortisol showing that the adrenal glands are 'fatigued', under pressure and overworked for too long which can lead in the long run to adrenal failure.
So in this case at least, my friend isn't guessing that she's depressed...biochemically it has been shown that she IS depressed.
Now we have to deal with the root causes.
Does anyone find this interesting and, indeed, did you know about these tests? not many people do know.
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Post by rikita on Mar 22, 2010 23:24:56 GMT
i do find it interesting, and i didn't know about the tests... but you say only people working in medicine can get the kit for the test?
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Post by spindrift on Mar 23, 2010 9:36:17 GMT
Yes, but if you like I can send you the name of the lab? They might do it for you....
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