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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2010 16:36:36 GMT
There are a few of us on here who are really well travelled. Kerouac and Imec and spindrift come to mind.
I'm not one of them. I might know a bit about Canada and the US because I've lived in this area of the world most of my life. But I know very little about the rest of the world. Another reason I so love the photo essays on here, for me it's been a real eye-opener and very educational. (Thanks you for those every one).
But I wanted to ask, just out of interest and curiosity, how has it changed you? I imagine that it does, but in which way? I have found that the more travelled a person is the more open minded they are and more accepting of other cultures. I guess that is to be expected. But in what other ways has it changed you and what else have you learned from your travelling experiences?
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Post by suzanneschuelke on Jan 19, 2010 17:13:38 GMT
There are others more traveled than I - but I've traveled a great deal across much of the world. I think that it in addition to being more open minded - you are also less stressed at dealing with things that don't work perfectly - because they don't. If I point to a picture of what I think is chicken in Japan and get fish (I hate fish) - so what. If you don't have that attitude - even fairly high end travel (at least without a group) is going to leave you frustrated. I am a planner by nature; but to travel you need to learn that it is perfectly OK to abandon plans and sometimes that is the intelligent thing to do. Incidentally; I think these are good lessons for life but I if travel reinforces them (at least for me). And part of the open mindedness thing is that I find that people are remarkably similar underneath (and since I am often working - I see people in a very normal environment).
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Post by spindrift on Jan 19, 2010 17:51:22 GMT
I will give your question much thought before I reply....
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Post by auntieannie on Jan 19, 2010 17:56:10 GMT
It has taught me to express myself better, and to look for signs of surprise/incomprehension.
It has taught me about food ;D
It has taught me a lot of things that can be applied in a work environment.
It has taught me to listen to my gut feeling and trust it above anything else.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2010 18:03:20 GMT
That was my sentiment exactly (Spindrift's comment), but it is a really good question, so I feel as though I must say something quickly. I totally subscribe to what Suzanne wrote, but I would add that some of the things that I want from travel are 1) surprises 2) discoveries 3) a complete disruption of my usual routine. While I completely understand people who study every detail of the trip they are planning, I have reduced my planning so that anything can happen (within reason) and I look forward to that.
At the same time (perhaps increasing age is involved), I no longer allow myself to be dragged into situations that seem too complicated or open ended. This is probably because I generally travel alone and do not benefit from the moral support that two or more travellers can give each other.
I will probably have more to say when other people have given their thoughts on the matter.
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Post by spindrift on Jan 19, 2010 18:10:20 GMT
And I will just quickly say that I like a challenge, something like traversing dangerous paths, diving with little experience and riding when I fear speed! hmmmmmm.....
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2010 18:12:02 GMT
Me too. I both love and hate the death buses of Asia. (One of my colleagues just returned from Bolivia and Peru and can confirm that the death buses of Asia also exist in South America.)
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Post by spindrift on Jan 19, 2010 18:16:31 GMT
Unfortunately death buses make me feel sick and I'm so ill that I miss the frightening sights....
I get the same thrill out of 'standing up' to obnoxious people (like who want to condemn a local horseboy etc) who then hate and avoid me....(for helping the locals)....how I detest such people.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2010 19:15:10 GMT
Some great insights here.
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Post by suzanneschuelke on Jan 19, 2010 19:18:31 GMT
I think there are those who love to plan and those who hate to. I fall into the love to plan category (fortunately my spouse/travel partner likes me to plan). When I just wander my Type A takes over and I fret too much and worry about missing things. But just as a non-planner shouldn't ignore all planning (trains and buses won't - at least in much of the world) - if I feel bound by my planning that I can't enjoy the spontaneous opportunities that come up (or I will make us miserable). So - always plans change - maybe weather, or something better came along, or maybe we just changed out mind (fortunately I have a travel partner whose moods nearly always synch with mine)
I don't do the ultra adventurous trips of some of you and I envy you (never done a death bus in Asia) - but I sure have fun.
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Post by Jazz on Jan 19, 2010 19:28:12 GMT
Great question. I think that you underestimate yourself , Deyana...you did live in India, as well as in the UK before coming to North America?
I am not that well travelled (a questionable phrase) but each time I go away, I find myself refreshed, excited, inspired and at the same time, appreciative of the small things in my day to day life....most of all, I feel most 'myself' when I travel. Then, I am 'out of time, out of place' and all of me...my emotions, my intellect, my spirit...suddenly become more alive and receptive. I feel like the authentic 'me'.
However, I also think that travel is 'quality vs. quantity' and a unique state of mind. Many people that I know have travelled far more than I and I wonder why they bothered. At the opposite end of this spectrum is someone like Jane Austen, who never journeyed more than 50 miles from the village where she was born, yet with her modest travels to her neighbors and small villages, she gave us the gift of her writings.
When travelling, I do the most minimal planning and let things unfold. When I travel, I am always surprised, make discoveries...it is a given. Challenge and danger don't have to be 'built in'---they happen. The most innocent situations have resulted in danger and challenge...with the only basic question being, how do I survive this?
Today when I travel, I like to know where I will stay for the first few nights. This wasn't the case in most of my travelling in the previous 25 years...ie: the year I spent in Europe (20-21), I never knew where I would stay as I travelled from city to city, country to country. Remarkable stories from this time, all the times.
Travel gives me an beautiful sense of being alive in the moment and an appreciation of so many small things that I had taken for granted. I feel the most authentically 'me' and my creativity becomes almost unbearably intense.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 19, 2010 22:02:11 GMT
Jazz, I was born in India and lived there for only a few years, so don't remember much about it, and it's been a while since I've been back. For years I was a single mom, and doing my best to raise my kids alone, so travelling overseas was out of the question. Although I did manage to get to the UK to see family several times, ( That's not really what I would call 'travelling' though). I really like the way you look at traveling and what it means, it's very similar to my view of it. quote: When travelling, I do the most minimal planning and let things unfold. When I travel, I am always surprised, make discoveries...it is a given. Challenge and danger don't have to be 'built in'---they happen. The most innocent situations have resulted in danger and challenge...with the only basic question being, how do I survive this? I couldn't have said it better myself. I think travelling should be a challenge, different each time, unpredictable, inspiring and a learning experience. After all we can do all the routine stuff every day at home. I'm not much of a planner, I prefer to just go and hope for an adventure. I haven't done much travelling in the past, I know that will all change within the next couple of years though. I've had various invitations to go to different places, there's been Africa, Spain, India, and other parts of Asia, places where I have connections with friends and family. Recently I was invited to a year long expedition of Africa, but ofcourse couldn't go. My sister (who lives permanently in India) is forever asking me to go over, and I'm beginning to feel guilty that I haven't seen her for so long. But I have had to turn them all down. Reason of course being that I still have kids at home and I just can't take off like most people can, unless I take them with me, which with the school system is just not possible. Once my middle boy graduates, I may take my youngest son with me to India for a year, I think it would quite a good experience for him, and he loves going to different places.
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Post by traveler63 on Jan 20, 2010 4:26:27 GMT
Traveling is a window to a world that I had read about when I was younger, but never thought I would really see it. I came from a family that was grounded in the life around them and had never been on an airplane. They were simple people and believed that there was no place like home. Mom and Dad were great, they took us to many places here in the West but were not adventuresome because their life consisted of home and work.
By a great amount of planning, saving and a quirk of fate, Mr. T63 and I have been fortunate in our later life to be able to do what we have done. Really not a lot, our first trip to Europe- Paris was in 2001 and we only started longer jaunts after I retired in 2006, so we are mere babies in travel.
What have we learned? That people are pretty much the same where ever you go. If you treat them with respect and try not to be know it alls, they will generally be nice to you. That there is a big world out there, and possibilities are there for the taking and trying, you just have to do it. That Americans, in my opinion have a lot to learn about the world. We generally don't know squat about anything outside of our own borders and that we are far more backward in how things work outside of our country. That we should be far more open to other ways of doing things. That our country is great, but there are other countries that have a lot to offer and we should embrace and try to understand that those countries have merit. Personally, food and wine and different ways of cooking and a bigger appreciation of different religions and trying to celebrate what we all have in common and not what our differences are.
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Post by hwinpp on Jan 20, 2010 6:30:54 GMT
It's taught me patience and the need to adapt and be flexible.
It's becoming more and more planned for me. While before I'd just buy an airline ticket or a train ticket, now I find myself with hotel reservations, pre- booked train and bus tickets, even tables booked at restaurants (with the exact dates and times) and notes to tell me I need to recharge my hand phone with credit (I didn't even use a hand phone on my travels before).
While it certainly does open your eyes for foreign cultures it also teaches you what is good about your home though ;D
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Post by Deleted on Jan 20, 2010 16:45:37 GMT
T63, many people do start to travel later in life, mostly because raising children takes first place.
Quote: While it certainly does open your eyes for foreign cultures it also teaches you what is good about your home though ;D
I agree, I like where I'm living and it will always be my home and base, but I can see myself getting away for the winter months to warmer shores at some point in the future.
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Post by lagatta on Jan 20, 2010 17:38:24 GMT
Deyana has certainly covered far more ground than I have - though I've probably polluted the planet more with my air miles.
I haven't really travelled anywhere beyond Europe and North America - and I haven't got as far south as where Bixa lives - no farther than the Mexico City area or thereabouts. I have studied, worked and attended conferences in different places on those continents.
No children. Wanting to be mobile a major factor in that. (Also, I'm not terribly maternal, towards human babies that is).
Even in the somewhat structured situations I tend to favour (studying languages or doing university courses and research, being in a city for work, whether paid or volunteer, attending colloquia and conferences, or even my choice of slow travel - setting up "home" somewhere for a week or a month) travelling does mean adjusting to different outlooks, schedules, ways of working and attitudes to life.
Some of the programmes I was facilitating did involve people from just about every continent (except Antarctica), so that also meant very different lifestyles, wants and needs etc. hw, you must not be surprised that the Asian students (East, Southeast and South) did feel slighted if there was not rice in some form at every meal!
I mostly like where I live, but I hate winter, and one thing I loathe about the fact that Montréal is on the wrong side of the pond is that it is so far to get anywhere. I'd say Ottawa is the closest city of any size, and that is still almost two hours by any form of transport - Québec is a bit farther in the other direction. The closest cities of similar or slightly greater size to here are Toronto and Boston, and those are at least 5 hours by road - and Boston is hell to get to by public transport (I refuse to fly such distances). It is like living in a void.
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Post by imec on Jan 20, 2010 22:47:56 GMT
It is a great question - and I'm not entirely sure how to answer it. One thing that caught my attention though was the phrase "more accepting of other cultures" - I'm not entirely in agreement on this.
Over the years, I've come to realize that, I don't have to accept anything I don't agree with. With regard to culture, I find I can either tolerate aspects of it - (singing and dancing for instance that I don't exactly enjoy but won't harm me - e.g. Morris dancing, Yodelling), enjoy it and perhaps invest in aspects of it (e.g. arts and crafts from many countries), embrace and adopt aspects of it (e.g. cuisine from Europe and Asia) and even abhor, reject and actively protest aspects of it (e.g. class distinction, disregard for human rights, violence in the name of religion or tradition). I've also learned that the western inclination to sometimes accept or tolerate is often ridiculed, despised and/or taken advantage of by other cultures.
I do believe that the opportunity to get a closer look at other regions, countries and cultures has put me in a better position to relate to those who come from these places. It has also enriched my life by showing me new things to enjoy. I tend not to get too wound up about the whole "learning experience" - I travel to have fun whereas, to me, learning is something to be done as a means toward a more practical end (e.g. to make more money or to be more effective at a task or discipline).
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Post by lagatta on Jan 20, 2010 23:40:00 GMT
You say that, imec, but your travel posts are full of "disinterested" learning. There is nothing wrong with practical studies.
I've done both what one calls "training" in specific tasks (including ones that will help people make more money or better administer the money they have) and "education" or "learning" in a less immediately beneficial sense.
Things such as language learning and even studies of different cultures can be VERY useful for businesses. Just think of etiquette!
It is true that one encounters attitudes and practises that are very distasteful - I don't mean biggies such as outright racism or violence towards women - but for example a friend in a language-teaching programme had young male students rooming with her (in Britain) who kept asking her to make tea for them. (they were of various religions but tended to be of the more "patriarchal" cultures). To one, and I believe he was from the perfect storm of patriarchal + rich and spoilt Saudi Arabia, she blew up and told him "Make yer own bloody tea!"
It was probably among the better lessons he had during his stay...
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Post by imec on Jan 21, 2010 1:16:01 GMT
Maybe I used poor wording lagatta - I didn't mean I don't learn, I just meant that's not my focus - one can't help but acquire new knowledge which is often interesting. I tend to equate the term learning with required knowledge which may or may not be interesting
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Post by lagatta on Jan 21, 2010 1:51:13 GMT
This might be a linguistic difference. I tend to call that "formation", which roughly translates into "training" but is a bit broader.
For example, I was giving intensive ESL classes in a program for unemployed workers who had been recently laid off and needed professional upgrading and "recycling". They also got computer classes, jobsearch help and other training.
But imagine one of your children is at university. She and he will be taking classes that don't directly relate to what they will do in life to make a living (and such courses are mandatory in universities and here in Québec in "CÉGEPS" - colleges, roughly equivalent to French Lycée or "Junior College" in many parts of North America, even if they are taking a vocational programme). But they will also have courses directly relating to their field of study.
And later on they will likely have training courses directly related to their job skills, which may well be financed by their employer.
My point is that your new knowledge is not merely interesting - it may come in handy in a work setting. And vice-versa. A professional training can expose you to many new ideas and allow you to meet new people.
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Post by existentialcrisis on Jan 21, 2010 8:25:58 GMT
I like what Jazz said about feeling authentic when travelling. I have noticed this as well. When travelling, you are stripped of your reference points, familiar faces and sights, and all the things that remind you of who you are - at least, the fabrication of self that arises when you are in one place for any great length of time. When all these elements are stripped away, you are left with a more authentic you. Some people find this disconcerting; they feel naked and lost, and very unlike themselves. But in fact, this opportunity is an opening for bare essential self, with all its potentials and capacities ... which indeed will come into play as you find yourself in tricky situations on the road requiring you to adapt and change the way you think in order to deal with situations. It is an opportunity to learn about yourself. Personally, though, I find that the conditions of constant change and "homelessness" make me feel sorta indistinct. I also don't find these conditions lend themselves to creativity. Usually I'm so wrapped up in the moment that self-reflection and creative output are not possible. I find that after the travelling is over, then I have the clarity of mind for self-reflection and creative thought, and it is then that I can start putting the pieces together and find meaning in the journey.
These are just my thoughts, from the little travelling that I've done.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2010 8:37:21 GMT
It is true that travel can sometimes make you feel "naked" -- when nothing that you know appears to be useful in the setting in which you suddenly find yourself. I have found that in some cases, this can put me in a temporary panic and other times I completely embrace the exoticism of it all.
When I panic (not exactly the appropriate word, but close enough), I have always found that getting into a hotel room will calm me down immediately, even the dingiest most primitive room. It's a matter of finding a space that I can call my own temporarily, gather my thoughts and elaborate an appropriate strategy for dealing with the new environment.
Then things get a lot better and allow me to be more open.
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Post by bjd on Jan 21, 2010 11:13:38 GMT
Reading through the above posts, I find that the question I ask myself is "why do I like to travel" rather than what it has taught me. Not that I have been in too many places, but over time I realize that there are places that interest me and others that don't. Given the constraints of time and money, I prefer to see places that have a historical or cultural interest for me (most of Europe and particularly Eastern Europe) or are exotic in some way. I really don't care about N America, Australia or places that would be too much like what I already know. Given a choice between Sydney or Addis Abeba, I would take the latter. I want to feel that I have left home.
What have I learned? That I can be much more patient when I am away. Here, I hate standing in lines, delays of any kind. On holiday, sitting around for hours waiting for a bus to leave doesn't seem to be a problem. That I don't get sick easily, that crappy hotels and rooms in people's houses are just fine, whereas I wouldn't want to live in conditions like that at home. That it's easy to talk to people and that, generally, people are friendly and helpful if your attitude towards them is good.
And mostly, it puts France into perspective. I realize how easy and comfortable life is here, compared to the way so many people live in other countries.
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Post by imec on Jan 21, 2010 12:56:52 GMT
lagatta - yes I do see what you're saying. BTW - perhaps the cleverest, clearest thing I ever learned from a consultant: Difference between education and training - "I'm very much in favor of my children receiving sex education - however, I'll be much less enthusiastic about them receiving training until they're somewhat older."
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2010 16:39:42 GMT
Deyana has certainly covered far more ground than I have - though I've probably polluted the planet more with my air miles. Lagatta, most of what I would call my 'real travelling' was done before I had my kids. But I'm planning to make up for that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2010 16:45:31 GMT
It is true that travel can sometimes make you feel "naked" -- when nothing that you know appears to be useful in the setting in which you suddenly find yourself. I have found that in some cases, this can put me in a temporary panic and other times I completely embrace the exoticism of it all. When I panic (not exactly the appropriate word, but close enough), I have always found that getting into a hotel room will calm me down immediately, even the dingiest most primitive room. It's a matter of finding a space that I can call my own temporarily, gather my thoughts and elaborate an appropriate strategy for dealing with the new environment. Then things get a lot better and allow me to be more open. Kerouac, I must say it's good to hear someone who has done so much extensive travel, as yourself, saying these things. It makes me feel less silly about the way I feel about some aspects of travelling, and especially travelling alone. For instance, I wouldn't find travelling across India alone, but then I have moments when I start to 'panic' and wonder how I would deal with certain things, especially being in a country which is so foreign to me (sound silly saying that I know).
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2010 16:48:44 GMT
Given the constraints of time and money, I prefer to see places that have a historical or cultural interest for me (most of Europe and particularly Eastern Europe) or are exotic in some way. I really don't care about N America, Australia or places that would be too much like what I already know. Given a choice between Sydney or Addis Abeba, I would take the latter. I want to feel that I have left home. Yep, I feel the same way, I want to see and experience something different to what is the norm for me right now.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2010 6:27:48 GMT
I took my mother to Addis Ababa -- during the middle of the Ethiopian famine. Some of my trips have not been very reasonable.
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Post by hwinpp on Jan 22, 2010 8:26:14 GMT
Did you know the famine was 'on' or did you and the rest of the world discover that after your return?
;D
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Post by Jazz on Jan 22, 2010 14:52:11 GMT
For me, learning about myself and learning from and about other people and cultures is inseperable. I love the joy and the fear, or discomfort of putting myself in a totally unknown milieu. This is why I usually travel alone. Especially if I sense that I need to change, but am paralyzed. Travel somehow triggers me into movement and this begins when I am away. I am in love with the beauty of all of those small moments of travel. In your nakedness, with the familiar filters removed, you are open and vulnerable and alive. The moments of fear are as ultimately significent (if not more so) than the the moments of gentle beauty and pure joy. I love it all.
Again, I do believe that 'miles logged' and 'late starts' are not that important. We each travel when we are ready, when that inner sense says, time to go.
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