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Post by lola on Mar 6, 2010 2:46:47 GMT
That sounds very authentic, gertie. Thanks! Vinegar is a new one on me, though my father always added a bottle of beer to his. Falstaff even maybe.
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Post by lola on Mar 6, 2010 2:56:21 GMT
(I think that's a different kind of red hots than the ones bursting with Red Dye #2)
Cincinnati has its own thing going on, like added chocolate, cinnamon, cloves. Their "5 -way" includes spaghetti, chili, shredded cheese, diced onions, and beans. We encountered hints of this during recent tour around OH, where college cafeterias as far away as eatern PA offered these options.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 6, 2010 3:24:23 GMT
I'd think around the German parts of the midwest, you could find some Americanized meat dishes featuring vinegar. There's saurbraten, and lots of barbeque sauces with vinegar. I can see how it would sneak into chile once chile made its way up to the midwest.
Sounds good, Gertie, although I don't think I'm really clear on what "ranch dressing" is.
Also ~~ welcome to AnyPort. You're already throwing some spice in!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2010 6:21:18 GMT
The ranch dressing mix is what surprised me, too, but I can see how it might be an interesting addition. You don't know ranch dressing, Bixa?
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 6, 2010 6:56:16 GMT
It confused me because all I could think of was white salad dressing, even though Gertie says not the buttermilk kind. Anyway, I looked it up and found these ingredients for the powdered mix. That would make sense in chili.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2010 7:05:02 GMT
I only think of the white sauce, too, but as you can see, the package hides the salad in the background!
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Post by cristina on Mar 6, 2010 15:32:54 GMT
I roll out my red carpet to all of them, unless I misread Don Cuevas and there is actually a version of chili using 'red hots'. I'm pretty sure that the red hots Don Cuevas refers to here are hot dogs. And if I may respectfully disagree with DC, chili (Cincinnati style or otherwise) is quite delish on a hot dog, especially with shredded cheese. And I almost always eat my chili on top of spaghetti. We call it chili mac (although I have no idea of the origin of the name).
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 6, 2010 15:39:37 GMT
My grandmother made the spaghetti sauce of the gods, ditto meatballs. Well, she was an all-round fabulous cook. However, every once in a while my grandfather wanted canned chili on top of seashell pasta. He'd be the only person at the table eating it and I never knew where he learned that "treat".
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Post by lola on Mar 6, 2010 17:29:21 GMT
("mac" = macaroni)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2010 18:15:24 GMT
I bought a bag of kidney beans today. I wonder if I have any plans.
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Post by existentialcrisis on Mar 6, 2010 20:45:46 GMT
Chili dogs are too sloppy for me. But you can put hotdogs IN chili!!
Hot Dog Chili
2 cups chopped onions 6 hotdogs, sliced 14oz can kidney beans 1 can Italian tomato soup 28oz can beans with sauce (any flavor - molasses, maple, etc.) 1 tbsp flour 1 tbsp cider vinegar 1/2 cup water 2 tbsp chili powder 2 tbsp Worcester sauce
Saute onions and hotdogs in oil. Add kidney beans, soup, beans, flour, vinegar, water, chili powder, and Worcester sauce. Simmer 25 minutes and serve.
I actually made this once and it was good! Kinda like beans & wieners and kinda like chili!
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Post by existentialcrisis on Mar 6, 2010 20:52:38 GMT
Gertie - your chili sounds pretty good. The seasoning packs are actually novel for me...
I must look up this Cincinnati chili...
And in response to another topic:
Indo-Texan Curry Chili
2 lbs ground beef 4 cloves garlic, minced 1 tbsp curry powder 2 tsp ground coriander 1 tsp cumin 1 tsp grated lemon peel 2 cups chopped red pepper 15 oz tomato puree 2 10oz cans Rotel 10.5 oz beef broth 1 can coconut milk 1/4 cup ketchup
..... I'll just list the ingredients... I don't know if this would taste good or not. I found another one for a Curry Chicken Chili that is flavored very much like a curry but has 2 cans of diced tomatoes in it, which I guess makes it more chili-ish and less curry-ish ...? Or I guess this is just eating curry in a bowl with a spoon?
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 6, 2010 22:21:46 GMT
HW? HW ....... now just calm down.
Navigate away from the chili page.
Put it down -- people are looking!
Just don't look at the recipe any mor .......
omygod omygod -- everybody drop your crackers and cornbread and run!!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2010 23:06:26 GMT
Watch out Tuesday when he returns for the Women's Day holiday in Cambodia.
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Post by Don Cuevas on Mar 7, 2010 0:00:18 GMT
My grandmother made the spaghetti sauce of the gods, ditto meatballs. Well, she was an all-round fabulous cook. However, every once in a while my grandfather wanted canned chili on top of seashell pasta. He'd be the only person at the table eating it and I never knew where he learned that "treat". We had the first two for lunch today. I groaned with pleasure as I took my first bites, and the pleasure was renewed as I slurped up the last of the sauce at the bottom of the bowl. Meanwhile: SAY NO TO CHILI ABUSE!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2010 21:28:15 GMT
I am still drawn to deviant experimentation next time.
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Post by existentialcrisis on Mar 9, 2010 4:16:04 GMT
After a bit of research on Cincinnati chili and writing down a recipe and getting excited that I may actually be able to enjoy spaghetti - I have come to the opinion that it belongs in the chili family. And green chile, which is perhaps served more as a topping than a soup - also belongs in this family. But then I discovered Carne Guisada - and this strikes me as a stew and not a chili, though it is very similar to chili and I can't say in words what separates it from the chili family. homesicktexan.blogspot.com/2009/01/carne-guisada-tex-mex-stew.html
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 9, 2010 4:58:32 GMT
*digs in heels*
I am totally prepared to accept Cincinnati chili as part of the chili family. But green chile, despite the similar-sounding name, is simply not chili. The only thing that keeps carne guisada (which means "stewed meat") from being chili is the size the meat is cut, so I'd say carne guisada definitely belongs in the chili family.
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Post by existentialcrisis on Mar 9, 2010 8:08:44 GMT
Now I'm confused again. Why oh why is green chile not chili? What disqualifies it?
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 9, 2010 16:21:16 GMT
Existentia ~ I think everyone would agree that the essential thing that allows a dish to be called chili is the taste team of cumin and dried red capsicum, in whatever form and no matter what else is added. Green chile is completely without either of those two basic seasonings.
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Post by lola on Mar 9, 2010 18:09:27 GMT
I'd second that definition, even though I never could have formulated it myself. "Me, too."
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Post by gertie on Mar 9, 2010 23:23:27 GMT
Not sure why the size the meat is cut matters? When the fire fighters made their venison chili they used chopped up meat not ground meat and it still quacked like a duck to me. But then I am not really a chili purist. I used to live in a town in deep East Texas that had a yearly chili cook off for local charities that was quite something and I have tasted all sorts of chili. Venison chili. Goat chili. Southwest chili, which involved chunks of roast beef and blue corn chips...you name it. But I agree with Bixa, all of them contained dry or fresh chili pepper and cumin. That curry chili recipe actually looks like it might be good but I would guess you'd have to slip it some cumin to make it true chili. Rotel tomatoes include chili peppers so I guess we'd be set. Ooops sorry had to add sorry I didn't think to specify I meant the dry powder season mix used to make ranch dressing, not the actual dressing.
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Post by existentialcrisis on Mar 10, 2010 0:05:19 GMT
Okay, so when red chili peppers are used it makes chili, and when green chili peppers are used it makes non-chili. As far as cumin goes, I never put it in my first chili or many other attempts and it still looked and tasted like chili to me. Strangely enough, I just looked at Homesick Texan's chili recipe again, and it contained no cumin! Then I looked at her attempt at making green chili and it DID contain cumin! Gosh... my world is upsidedown.
I think perhaps it is the red chili powder stuff that seems to define chili for most people.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 10, 2010 3:52:33 GMT
Not sure why the size the meat is cut matters? Carne guisada generally has stew-sized pieces of meat, so bigger than the sizes in chili. I just looked at Homesick Texan's chili recipe again, and it contained no cumin! Then I looked at her attempt at making green chili and it DID contain cumin! Does so! Does so! (pasting the recipe below so we don't have to go back to the OP to refer to it) Also, what the Homesick Texan is calling "green chili" is just another regular chili variation. She invented her version, and it's simply not green chile. So, I stand by my yardstick of dried red capsicum + cumin. Seven-chile chili
6 anchos 2 pasilla 2 costeñas 2 guajillos 4 chiles de arbol 2 chipotles in adobo 4 pieces of bacon 4 pounds of chuck roast, cut into 1/4 inch cubes 1 large onion diced 6 cloves of garlic, crushed 1 cup of brewed coffee 1 bottle of beer 2 cups of water 1/2 tsp cinnamon 1/2 tsp clove 1/2 tsp allspice 1 tsp coriander 1/2 tsp cayenne 1 tablespoon cumin (For all spices, please feel free to add more to taste throughout cooking if you like.) Salt to taste 1/4 cup masa harina 1/3 Mexican hot chocolate tablet, grated
Heat the dried chiles (anchos, pasillas, costenos, guajillos and chiles de arbol) in a dry, cast-iron skillet on medium for a couple of minutes on each side. Turn off the heat and then add enough water to the skillet to cover the chiles, and let them soak for half an hour.
Meanwhile, in a large heavy pot, such as a Dutch oven, fry up your bacon. When done, remove from pan and crumble (Don’t worry if you opt to eat a slice—you deserve it!) and leave the bacon grease in the pot (it should be about 3) tablespoons. In the pot, cook your beef in the bacon grease on medium heat, a few minutes on each side until lightly browned. You will probably have to cook these in two batches.
Remove the browned beef from the pot, and add your onions. Cook on medium until clear. Add the garlic and cook for another minute. Put the beef back in the pot, and mix in the coffee, the beer, two cups of water, bacon crumbles and the dry spices. Turn the heat up to high.
Your soaking chiles should be soft by now. Drain them and discard the soaking water (it will be bitter) and place them in a blender with one cup of fresh water. Puree until nice and smooth and then add the chile puree to the chili pot.
When chili begins to boil, turn heat down to low and let simmer for five hours, stirring occasionally. Taste it once an hour, and if the flavors are too muted, feel free to add more of any of the spices. Also, it starts to get too dry, add more liquid (your choice!).
After five hours, take a Mexican hot chocolate disc, and finely grate 1/3 of it into the pot. Scoop out 1 cup of broth and add the masa harina. Mix it well and then reincorporate it back into the pot. Stir until chili is thickened.
Let the chili simmer for another half hour or so. When done, serve with cheddar, onions and tortillas.
Note: If you can't find all of these chiles, I would just use the more readily available anchos and chipotles. I'd use 6-8 anchos, following the same soaking and pureeing method, and two chipotles.
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Post by lola on Mar 10, 2010 4:17:28 GMT
Commercial "chili powder" contains cumin, or you could make your own copied from internet: An easy homemade chili powder recipe. Ingredients: 1 teaspoon paprika 2 teaspoons ground cumin 1 teaspoon cayenne pepper 1 teaspoon oregano 2 teaspoons garlic powder Preparation: Combine all ingredients; store in an airtight container.
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Post by existentialcrisis on Mar 10, 2010 19:42:26 GMT
bixa - I was speaking of Homesick Texan's more poetic description of chili-making, where no cumin is mentioned. You are right about her green chili, it's definitely not the real thing. I found a great recipe for the real thing (no cumin) and discovered that I can find the ingredients here so I will make it soon and see how I feel about it then.
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Post by bixaorellana on Mar 10, 2010 21:02:51 GMT
I was speaking of Homesick Texan's more poetic description of chili-making, where no cumin is mentioned. Ah, but yes it is, Existentia, albeit not by name: Pour into the pot your ancho chile slurry, add 1/3 cup of chile powder, 2 tablespoons of Mexican oregano, two cayenne peppers or a tablespoon of cayenne pepper powder, ...She is saying chil e powder, but obviously meaning chil i powder. Otherwise, she wouldn't be calling for the cayenne (a type of chil e), as well. And there would definitely be a fair amount of cumin in 1/3 cup of chil i powder. If you meant the poetic description in part one, she mentions chili powder there, too, again referring to it as chile powder, but giving brand names so that we are in no doubt that she means chili powder. Incidentally, Existentia, the links in the OP do not seem to be working anymore. Below are direct links to the blog, if you want to re-set them in the OP:
How to make a pot of Texas red: part one -- homesicktexan.blogspot.com/2006/10/how-to-make-pot-of-texas-red-part-one_15.html How to make a pot of Texas red: part two -- homesicktexan.blogspot.com/2006/10/how-to-make-pot-of-texas-red-part-two_18.html A more precise Texas chili recipe -- homesicktexan.blogspot.com/2009/02/more-precise-texas-chili-recipe.html
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Post by Don Cuevas on Mar 11, 2010 0:43:49 GMT
I hink it's overdue for me to post Uncle Jack's Original San Antonio Chili here. I had permission from him to post it elsewhere once, so I'll take the liberty of doing it here. ::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: (Begin quote) Chiles are an integral part of the cuisine of Mexico and most of the southern United States. Chiles of all kinds; large, small, red, green or yellow are tasty, nutritious, healthful and often very exciting. The Mexicans were eating chiles centuries before Columbus ever even thought of sailing to India.
CHILI is something else. CHILI is a Texas invention. Best research indicates that CHILI first came on the scene in San Antonio around the 1840s. CHILI contains meat, (usually beef) red chiles, onions, garlic, oregano, cumin??, salt, pepper, and sometimes epazote for the more enlightened. These are the ingredients that were available in and around San Antonio at that time. Remember, most Anglos/Europeans, other than the Italians, still considered tomatoes to be poison in the 1800s.
Real Texas CHILI does not contain: tomatoes, bell peppers, celery, parsley, Worcestershire sauce, A-1, beer, Jack Daniels, rattlesnake meat, Tequila, or any of the other crap commonly found in cutsie-poo recipes out of Sunset or Gourmet magazines. Now, some of you may like tomatoes and bell peppers and rattlesnake meat, and that’s just fine. Your Mamas may have been feeding you some concoctions made with hamburger, tomato sauce, and canned kidney beans since you were a kid and I’m sure that it is tasty; but it ain’t CHILI
Beans, usually pinto beans, are almost always served with CHILI, but as a side dish, not in the CHILI. When you add beans or any of the other ingredients mentioned above, you no longer have CHILI; you are cooking vegetable/beef stew. Do yourself a big favor. Don’t ever tell a real Texan that you put tomatoes in the CHILI
Original San Antonio Style Texas Chili
3 lbs beef, cut into 1 ” cubes Or: 2 lbs beef, cut into 1 " cubes 1-lb pork cut into 1 " cubes (Traditionally tougher and cheaper cuts of meat are used. I like beef brisket and/or pork shoulder. It‘s quit common to use deer meat also.)
4 Tbls flour for dredging meat 3 Tbls oil or lard 2 or 3 medium onions, chopped 6 cloves garlic, minced 1 qt. stock (I prefer chicken stock, but that’s a personal choice) 2 ancho chiles, washed, stems and seeds removed 4 dried red New Mexican chiles, washed, stems and seeds removed 1 serrano chile, stem and seeds removed, chopped fine (optional) 1 Tbls cumin seeds, freshly ground 2 Tbls Mexican oregano 1 tea epazote (if available and entirely optional) salt & pepper
Lightly flour the beef and pork cubes. Brown the meat in the oil over medium heat, stirring often. Add the onions and garlic and sauté until translucent but not brown. Add stock and simmer covered for 1 hour.
Soak the dried chiles in hot water for 30 minutes. Purée them in a blender with a little of the soaking water and then strain to remove skins and any remaining seeds. Add this sauce to the meat along with the remaining spices and simmer for 2 hours or more until tender.
Serve with cooked beans on the side and corn bread or fresh tortillas.
Garnish with chopped tomatoes, chopped onions, and cilantro
------------------------- "I often wonder about the man who ate the first oyster."
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Post by Deleted on Mar 11, 2010 6:04:05 GMT
Frankly, all of these recipes look good, but I find it funny that so much passion is inleashed about what should be considered authentic chili. It just seems to me to be an improvizational dish par excellence in which just about all of the ingredients and proportions can be varied according to what somebody has on hand.
Nevertheless, I have seen the same debates about boeuf bourgignon, which I consider to be an improvizational dish as well. People argue about the size of the beef cubes or if the beef should even be cut up at all, the use of various vegetables, how the vegetables should be chopped...
I consider a kitchen to be a place of freedom, not a prison camp.
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Post by gertie on Mar 11, 2010 11:51:02 GMT
K2, where I come from we have chili wars. Worst bar fight I ever saw was over chili. Don't ask me why, just know that it is so. For myself, I love all sorts of chili, but I think the fuss starts around here because many families have traditional recipes they've passed down, so it sort of becomes diss my chili, you are talking about my whole family. From what I understand, Boeuf Bourgignon is another meal with similar family ties.
I have an extremely unusual chili recipe to share.
For four:
1 and 1/4 to 1 and 1/2 pounds ground beef 1 bag shell pasta, cooked al dente and rinsed 1 - 3 teaspoons chili powder (according to taste) 1 teaspoon Italian seasoning 1/4 cup jalapeno rings from a jar (omit and serve on side if anyone can't take spicy hot) 1 large onion, chopped 2 cloves garlic, crushed and chopped 1 can beef broth 1 can tomato paste 1 can tomato sauce 1 can chopped tomatoes 1 can mushrooms
Saute the onion in 1/4 cup of water until translucent, add the garlic, then the meat. Brown meat well and drain. Put everything except the pasta in a large pot over medium heat and bring to boil, setting it to simmer. Works out well to start your water for pasta now, as you can simmer the meat sauce while the pasta cooks and drains. Add the pasta, simmer another 15-20 minutes and serve.
My grandfather had a funny name for this stuff, I think he learned to make it in the military during WWII. I wish I could remember, it was sort of a tongue twister and we kids found it amusing. I believe the jalapenos were a later addition.
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