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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 9:48:50 GMT
Mark's incredible stories about getting through Africa make it clear that nothing is impossible.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 10:36:01 GMT
Security has considerably deteriorated in the southeastern part of Iran (Sistan and Baluchitstan province) as well as in Pakistan over the past few years- several cases of tourists murdered or kidnapped in either parts of the border.
I'm curious that you mention Iraq unless you really want to visit it. Turkey and Iran have a common border.
Your have two options. The shortest route (but not so safe because of Pakistan) through: Turkey, Iran, Turmenistan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan-China through the Irkeshtam pass, Kashgar (Xinjiang province), Pakistan (Gilgit Rawalpindi, Lahore(?), India
The other possibility, from Kashgar (since you cannot cross neither the Nepali nor the Indian borders) would be to go eastward to Burma, and then to enter India from the East. Some travellers take this route.
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Post by hwinpp on Feb 23, 2010 10:57:28 GMT
But not through Burma. That's closed to the west, both to India and Bangladesh.
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Post by onlymark on Feb 23, 2010 12:28:37 GMT
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Post by spindrift on Feb 23, 2010 12:32:08 GMT
Askar - why can't we pass through the Nepali border?
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Post by onlymark on Feb 23, 2010 12:34:59 GMT
But I prefer the shorter route -
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 13:29:36 GMT
I was in the part of Baluchistan that is closest to Karachi once (to see one of those incredible ship disassembly areas), and everything seemed totally safe and normal along the coastal road. Then again, that was at least 20 years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 16:08:08 GMT
bjd, yes I think, if stopping at different places, it would take more than the 4 months. Are all the countries right hand drive, other than the UK and India then? It would make sense to get a vehicle in France, or other part of Europe then.
Mark, I've seen that ceremony before (on T.V.), it's interesting. Also a train to Istanbul makes sense and then drive from there.
Askar, Iraq would definitely be out. I don't think it's that easy to get a visa for that country anyway.
Security has considerably deteriorated in the southeastern part of Iran (Sistan and Baluchitstan province) as well as in Pakistan over the past few years- several cases of tourists murdered or kidnapped in either parts of the border.
And that's a worry, another reason to do your 'homework' before setting off.
[/i]
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 16:09:16 GMT
So how about the cost? Anyone want to have a go at that one?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 17:41:13 GMT
Start honing your belly dancing skills.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 18:07:05 GMT
umm...um...I save those for just one person. But thanks for the suggestion. Perhaps I could sing my way across?
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Post by Kimby on Feb 23, 2010 18:32:53 GMT
Mark's maps are wonderful. What site allows you to mark routes on maps like that?
Re: driving on right with car from left-lane driving country. When we visited Burma in 1993, our hired car had the steering wheel on the right, but since British rule ended, "Myanmar" chose to drive on the right, immediately rendering most vehicles on the road obsolete. Many of those vehicles were still on the road in 1993, however, which lent itself to exciting passing manouvers. (By the time you've edged out far enough for the driver to see around the large truck he wants to pass, he is at risk of being side-swiped by the oncoming vehicle he couldn't see until that moment. Even scarier for us, turn signals are used in a completely different manner - the truck driver may turn on his left signal to indicate NOT that he is planning to turn left, but that it is safe for YOU to pull out on his left. If his right signal is on, however, be wary. Instead of turning right, he may be trying to tell you to STAY right, i.e. not safe to pass.)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 18:52:52 GMT
Cambodia is in a similar situation. It drives on the right but imports a lot of its cars from Thailand, which drives on the left.
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Post by onlymark on Feb 23, 2010 19:04:33 GMT
If you take the simple route from Turkey through Iran, Pakistan and into India, or even Nepal, by far the most dangerous roads to drive on are those in Pakistan and India. Both of these drive on the left, as in the UK. A vehicle with that set up is the best option.
Kimby - The first maps are from the web site of a specialist overland company who regularly travel that route. The second one, the route known as the Hippie Trail, was easy enough to find anywhere.
The etiquette of how drivers communicate in different countries does fascinate me. What is good in one is not necessarily good in the next.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 20:29:08 GMT
Askar - why can't we pass through the Nepali border? I was convinced that the Chinese/Nepali border was closed. My mistake. I don't know where I read that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 21:18:57 GMT
I'd heard it was closed too. Wasn't there or isn't here some kind of conflict between the two countries?
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Post by onlymark on Feb 23, 2010 21:28:51 GMT
It could well be closed. It's not something I'm up to date on.
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Post by onlymark on Feb 23, 2010 21:32:31 GMT
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Post by spindrift on Feb 23, 2010 22:09:23 GMT
It is a well known fact that Tatopani means hot water - the place with hot water. A good place to bathe. However it's the Tibet/Nepal border. I dont say Chinese border in this case. I do know that the overlording Chinese do often close the border at any time in order to demonstrate their control. It only takes several days of waiting for them to open it again. I hear they lock border tourists in big wire cages. My friend, being a princess , was not locked in one of these; she was only Nepali allowed to enter. She doesn't ever worry about visas and rules, she confidently just carries on and even takes control Then she waves goodbye to her caged friends and she goes back to her home comforts. Only she could do this.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2010 6:37:50 GMT
I don't think that I would stay her friend very long if she left me in a cage!
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Post by spindrift on Feb 24, 2010 8:40:30 GMT
I know some very weird people but life might be very boring without them!
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Post by hwinpp on Feb 24, 2010 8:58:12 GMT
The China/ Nepal border is open for individual travelers using public or chartered transportation. No idea if you can drive a car through though.
I'd forget that idea though. The more 'stans you have on your trip, especially the ex Soviet 'stans, the more expensive the trip will get.
Take the shorter route through Baluchistan (as Mark has already suggested) and trust in the military escort and God.
I'd take a car with the steering on the right hand side, therefore recommend to buy it in the UK. Either you're going to sell it at the end of your trip in India (expensive) or you're going to bring it back, right?
I'd cost it thusly:
- car, 10- 15k USD - 30- 50USD daily, 120 days= 3600- 6000USD total - 1000USD emergency money
If you bring the car back to the UK to sell you'd probably get back 1/2- 2/3 of it's buying price.
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Post by spindrift on Feb 24, 2010 9:18:43 GMT
HW, yes you're right about having to use public or chartered transport in Tibet. Forgot about that.
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Post by bjd on Feb 24, 2010 9:34:21 GMT
I think the visas for each 'Stan were about 100€ about 2 years ago.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2010 9:38:26 GMT
I am looking at earlier sections of the trip and am thinking it might be a shame to miss Romania and Bulgaria by taking a train to Istanbul. But now that they are part of the EU, they are probably becoming less exotic for us every day.
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Post by onlymark on Feb 24, 2010 9:48:57 GMT
Two things -
If taking your own vehicle you will need a Carnet de Passage. This is like a passport for the vehicle and exempts you from paying the import customs duties for each country. Some countries issue a temporary import permit which has the same effect. It is a complicated issue but is needed for Iran, Pakistan, India and Nepal. There have been instances of vehicles getting across those borders without one, but usually it requires a lot of persuasion, time, effort and 'gifts'.
In effect it promises that within a certain length of time you will take the vehicle out of the country. In the UK it is issued by the R.A.C. and requires the leaving of a deposit or a bank guarantee currently 500% of the worth of the vehicle if going through our route. This is only returnable if the conditions of the issue of the Carnet are fulfilled. The main one is that the vehicle is returned to the UK.
Visas - when I was doing this we obtained first the Pakistan Visa, then the Iran visa, then the India visa - all from London. The Nepal visa, if going that far, was issued at the border. Any others going through Europe and Turkey were again issued at the border. Of course if you hold a weird and wonderful nationality passport then things might be different. All the visas can be obtained from Embassies en route, but they take time and effort. The most difficult being the Iranian one. If this is refused as you are already several weeks into your trip and in Turkey, it could put a dampener on the whole thing.
Best get these beforehand but you have to bear in mind your timings in that the validity doesn't expire before you reach that specific country. It has happened whereby a visa has expired and it is sometimes known that it will. But the reason for getting one anyway is that if it does expire and you have to re-new it, it is often easier and takes a shorter time as it can be seen you've already been authorised to have one. This can often cut out long waiting times in foreign countries trying to get your first one. The disadvantage is that obviously you are paying twice. But in the long run it can be cheaper than food and accommodation expenses whilst you are waiting for clearance.
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Post by onlymark on Feb 24, 2010 9:53:11 GMT
K2 - I'm sure it could be done on a train through those countries anyway. When I used to drive through Europe to do this route we'd land from the ferry in Belgium then pass through Germany, Austria, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria to Turkey. Previously the route had been through Yugoslavia, but conflict there put a stop to it for a while.
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Post by bjd on Feb 24, 2010 10:41:09 GMT
The first time I travelled on my own, I came from Canada to England. I found a cheap trip to Istanbul. 3 weeks drive: London through Belgium, Germany, Austria, Yugoslavia, Greece to Istanbul, a week in Istanbul, then back through Bulgaria, Yugoslavia, etc. Stopped at campsites, and the rundown minibus was driven by 3 mad Australians. It cost £29 and I had to buy a sleeping bag before I left London. Even then it was cheap.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2010 18:14:31 GMT
Wow, that was a very cheap trip bjd. It reminds me of my USA trip some years back, all we had was our car and $50, to begin with.
Mark, that is some really good information there, I can imagine that visas for Pakistan are not easy to get nowadays though.
I'm used to driving on the right hand side, obviously. And I can't imagine driving in India, knowing just how difficult and dangerous it is.
Quote: I am looking at earlier sections of the trip and am thinking it might be a shame to miss Romania and Bulgaria by taking a train to Istanbul.
It would be shame to miss any part of the journey by rushing through it, that's one advantage of having your own vehicle as opposed to going by train.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2010 20:37:26 GMT
Then again, when I look at some of the cargo ship schedules for sailing around Africa and on to India, I would love that experience as well. Although you mostly only get to know the crew, I like the idea of days and days of nothingness out at sea -- time to write, time to dream, time to put things in perspective. And you still arrive at places from time to time.
Too bad about all those Somali and Indonesian pirates.
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