Lao Tzu

[Deleted]

Lao Tzu is best known in the Western world as the person who reputedly said "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

But I have always found that he is a treasure trove of wisdom on all sorts of other subjects.

At the risk of boring you, here are a few of my favorites:

Silence is a source of great strength.

When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be.

To see things in the seed, that is genius.

Life and death are one thread, the same line viewed from different sides.

Nature does not hurry, yet everything is accomplished.

Nothing is softer or more flexible than water, yet nothing can resist it.

Respond intelligently even to unintelligent treatment.

Because of a great love, one is courageous.

[/blockquote]

[spindrift]

Oh! It's wonderful to read this. I agree with it all. Of course it's difficult to practice what is preached. Please tell us more although I do have a book somewhere with Lao Tzu's sayings.

[Deleted]

That first group was easy to understand, easy to agree with and easy to digest.

However, it gets more interesting when the statements are a bit more cryptic and less universally acceptable. I was thinking that we could perhaps discuss some of these and give our own interpretations and views regarding them.

Here are just three so that we don't get overwhelmed by confusion.

(This first one is still pretty easy, the next two somewhat less so, in my opinion.)


The career of a sage is of two kinds: he is either honored by all in the world, like a flower waving its head, or else he disappears into the silent forest.

Those who have knowledge do not predict. Those who predict do not have knowledge.

Truthful words are not beautiful; beautiful words are not truthful. Good words are not persuasive; persuasive words are not good.

[spindrift]

Hmmmm...yes, I look forward to sharing thoughts on the above. I do not necessarily agree with the first one.

[Deleted]

The one that I find the most confusing and with which I disagree the most is the third one, but there may also be a translation problem in the statement. On top of that, there seems to be a mixture of objectivity and subjectivity. "Truthful" seems objective to me. "Beautiful" and "good" are subjective, and "persuasive" is somewhere in between.

Why can't truthful words be beautiful? Why can't beautiful words be truthful? Why can't persuasive words be good?

I had better just keep my mouth shut, because it is always full of words.

[spindrift]

You are right in saying that there may be a translation problem. That is almost certainly the case. I know from learning Japanese and ancient suttras that the English language does not lend itself to the depth of meaning of many words and some, indeed, are untranslatable.

but we can have fun debating around the given translation?

[onlymark]

I love you.

[onlymark]

"Truthful words are not beautiful"

[spindrift]

that's a typically misunderstood word if ever there was one.......and good for debate. ;D

[onlymark]

"Shall I compare thee to a Summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate"

"beautiful words are not truthful."

[onlymark]

No matter that the translation may be lacking, maybe it all comes down to the fact that "to err is human", i.e. he didn't get it right every time.

[patricklondon]

I don't have any difficulty with the second one, though I suspect there may be a translation problem there - "knowledge", or "wisdom"?

There is a hierarchy in information management theory: at the bottom is data (bare items of fact), then information (facts in context and relationship), then knowledge (how information is best used and applied). I don't think anyone got as far as wisdom, which is, I suspect, understanding where knowledge is not enough, and may even be best forgotten...!

[bixaorellana]

Taking off from your "understanding where knowledge is not enough, an may even be best forgotten" comment, Patrick, and simply assuming for the moment that the translations are correct, this is what I think --

Lao Tzu is believed by some to be a great spiritual master. Whether or not you subscribe to such beliefs, it's true that his words hook us into paying attention to them, even it it's only to argue their logic.

I believe that much, if not all of his writings were to put the individual into a contemplative state of mind -- or even non-mind, if you will. That is to say, to achieve a state wherein assumptions could be let go of long enough so that the wisdom so simply stated might unfold.

[Deleted]

Music in the soul can be heard by the universe.

Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power.

Manifest plainness, embrace simplicity, reduce selfishness, have few desires.

An ant on the move does more than a dozing ox.

[gertie]

I've generally found the quote "People are usually about as happy as they make up their minds to be" to be the soundest philosophy by which to live. Somehow, I wouldn't be shocked if that same sentiment is expressed in some ancient Chinese philosophy as well.

[Deleted]

Actually, I think that Chinese philosophy puts the emphasis on facing reality and accepting it, even when it is not great.

Being as happy as you make up your mind to be is often more of a case of denying reality, like the people who think that newspapers should publish good news instead of bad.

[spindrift]

I think that Chinese philosophy puts the emphasis on facing reality and accepting it, even when it is not great.

Yes it does and so does Buddhism.

[Deleted]

He who obtains has little. He who scatters has much.

I do not concern myself with gods and spirits either good or evil nor do I serve any.

He who talks more is sooner exhausted.

When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compare or compete, everybody will respect you.

[spindrift]

He who talks more is sooner exhausted.

I wish some of my talkative friends would become exhausted and stop talking but they don't.

[auntieannie]

I really enjoy reading these sayings and believe that most of them relate to much simpler emotions or facts than we realise.

[gertie]

You know I don't really see "happy as you want to be" as denying reality, maybe that is so for some. More of a yup the world is how it is and I refuse to live my life in the dumps because of that, rather, I'm going to enjoy what there is to enjoy in spite of the bad stuff, do what I can to improve the bad stuff, and live my life. But maybe that is just me.

When you are content to be simply yourself and don't compare or compete, everybody will respect you.

I like that one.

[Deleted]

The softest things in the world overcome the hardest things in the world.

The words of truth are always paradoxical.

To lead people, walk behind them.

When states are in confusion, there will be faithful servants.

How can man rejoice in victory and delight in the slaughter of men?

I have just three things to teach: simplicity, patience, compassion. These three are your greatest treasures.

[myrt]

'Music in the soul can be heard by the universe' is a beautiful thought - people take mind altering drugs to try and feel that way although I believe it's not necessary especially if one can 'let go of what I am, I become what I might be' - I've managed it for a few precious moments in my life so far..

'Manifest plainness, embrace simplicity, reduce selfishness, have few desires' would solve an awful lot of problems if everyone could live like that.

[Deleted]

Some of the phrases seem to be mocking our true natures.

[Deleted]

Love is of all passions the strongest, for it attacks simultaneously the head, the heart and the senses.

One can not reflect in streaming water. Only those who know internal peace can give it to others.

A good traveller has no fixed plans, and is not intent on arriving.

[Deleted]

Mastering others is strength. Mastering yourself is true power.

He who knows that enough is enough will always have enough.

Govern a great nation as you would cook a small fish. Do not overdo it.