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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 6, 2020 16:48:50 GMT
I went to university during the dangerous psychedelic years (in which I fully participated). I dragged myself through in order not to disappoint my parents, but I probably would have been better off with a gap year. To compensate before I burned out, I went to summer sessions in order to complete my 4 year cursus in 3 years.
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Post by bjd on Sept 6, 2020 16:58:29 GMT
I hated high school and couldn't easily afford university so I worked and travelled for a couple of years. I then realized that most of the interesting people I met were students so I started going to night classes while working and then went full time as a student in second year. I wasn't much older than the others because I finished high school at 17 (instead of 18 or 19 since Ontario had 13 grades to the end of high school).
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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 6, 2020 17:07:08 GMT
Well, I started university at age 16, which certainly explains why I was not sufficiently mature.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Sept 6, 2020 17:22:50 GMT
They have no doubt worked hard for this and I won’t run them down, they deserve full marks for trying. BUT I do have my doubts about this craze for university type education, as I often say “ we have too much education, and not enough common sense”. In my lowly opinion there is nothing to beat learning on the job, and most things work better that way, I think nursing is a prime example, but there are many more. But what do I know? I agree with Mossie. 'In my day' it was very difficult to get a place at university. The courses themselves were free and you applied for a maintenance grant to pay your rent, parents were means tested and those worse off got better grants for their student offspring, it being assumed that the parents would be happy to stump up and subsidise the living expenses. Most students had part time jobs at weekends to pay for beer and chips. My Mother wouldn't sign the papers on my grant application as she was terrified that my parents would be expected to cough up money they couldn't afford. My Mother had a terrible fear of other people knowing what they had...and when I said that as they didnt have very much at all I'd get a full grant.. Mum didn't want anybody finding out how badly off they were. So I lost my place at Leeds to read English, probably for the best. Only around 15% of school leavers went on to further education, the rest got jobs with in house training or apprenticeships...attending one of the numerous polytechnics for the academic knowledge necessary for their chosen occupation. Training hospitals had a school of nursing, when I was a student nurse we were in block for 4 weeks then on the wards training gradually being taught by the ward staff, I think that we did 3 x 4 week blocks every year for three years, gradually getting more responsibility as our skills grew...it worked really well. The same sort of system was in place for other healthcare professionals. Now everybody wants a degree. All our polytechnics call themselves universities. Course fees are prohibitive and student loans crippling. To go into a healthcare job (aside from medics who are a different case) aspiring nurses, radiographers, speech therapists, scientists etc have to get a relevant degree before starting on their 'in house' training. Instead of fresh faced, eager 18 year olds starting work happy to 'start at the bottom' and train gradually we have 21+ year old jaded graduates with an incredibly inflated idea of their own ability, they know the theory but not the job itself...they dont want to do menial tasks, they don't want to answer the phones or fetch and carry. And another thing there has to BE a post for them to apply for! I can understand their reluctance to a certain extent...but it was just better before...rant over. Sorry.
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Post by bjd on Sept 6, 2020 18:25:49 GMT
I have the impression that in many countries, a degree has been put as a requirement before professional training to keep young people out of the job market for longer. I completely agree that for many jobs it would be better to have a system like that described by Cheery -- with practical training mixed with academic subjects.
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Post by mich64 on Sept 7, 2020 3:35:00 GMT
So many University degree program students return to a College for another 2 years to obtain a more practical certificate to accompany their degree, otherwise they find it difficult to gain employment. It is the practical courses and co-op experiences that employers are looking for.
I had no interest in University and attended College to appease my parents. I was quite happy (at 17) to find some type of full-time employment (and part-time coaching), get married and start our life. My time at College actually did enable me to get quite a good position (at 20) where I was paid a good wage, moved up quickly, learned new skills through company courses and ended up loving my career. All was luck and then hard work.
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Post by tod2 on Sept 7, 2020 9:30:34 GMT
There was a report on the TV news the other day about the dire straits of the Chinese wedding dress industry. They make most of the wedding dresses in the world, and nobody has been buying them since March... I meant to comment on this earlier - Anyway all I wanted to say was my ex-daughter-in-law ordered one of those Chinese wedding gowns a year before she and my son got married. A lot of the dress had to be re-stitched due to poor workmanship but it looked stunning on the day. Only thing is the marriage only lasted 5 years but was probably over in 3. The reception for 150 people cost us, the grooms parents, half the money as her father refused to cough up the whole amount.
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Post by lagatta on Sept 7, 2020 13:03:55 GMT
Nowadays, most couples here in Québec cohabitate, some may eventually formally marry, but it remains a minority. I say Québec because it is not the same everywhere in Canada.
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Post by whatagain on Sept 7, 2020 13:29:25 GMT
Not sure i undersyand Tod's comment. So here it is normal that both families pay hheir share. When i got married my parents paid pro rata of the people invited.
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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 7, 2020 13:54:31 GMT
There are all sorts of weird wedding traditions around the world. When (or if) your daughters decide to get married, you should just be happy not to have to provide a dozen sheep or a herd of camels as part of the dowry.
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Post by casimira on Sept 7, 2020 15:10:01 GMT
Well, I started university at age 16, which certainly explains why I was not sufficiently mature. DITTO!! But, I sure did have fun running around free as a bird in Boston. Far from the constraints of a town of 1,000.
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Post by tod2 on Sept 7, 2020 15:50:04 GMT
Not sure i undersyand Tod's comment. So here it is normal that both families pay hheir share. When i got married my parents paid pro rata of the people invited. In South Africa it is traditional in white culture or should I say English/Afrikaans culture for the brides parents to pay for the wedding. If the brides parents cannot afford what the dear girl wants, she may tell her future husband to pay up, or if he does not have the money, his parents. In our case we all share the same money so I guess we and he, paid up half. The bad feeling arose from his brides side as her father did not want to pay more than he had done for his son's wedding. That brides parents could afford nothing. But it tastes even worse when you know the father is a multi-millionaire and that when he passed his son not his daughter got the "farm".
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Post by kerouac2 on Sept 7, 2020 16:29:12 GMT
I assume that in most black cultures, the son rather than the daughter would also have received (almost) everything, too. The world still needs to make a lot of progress.
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Post by cheerypeabrain on Sept 8, 2020 7:28:15 GMT
We paid for our own wedding and expect the same from our children. They seem to get hitched much later than we did, if at all. I didn't expect anything from our parents, maybe it was partly because we aren't religious. Marriage provided me with all sorts of legal advantages, I was quite happy for us to carry on living together without the marriage license but Jeff thought we would be better off married.
Here it isnt unusual for couples to wed when they've been living together for several years and have had children together so they're generally in their 30s or 40s..it would be odd if they expected their parents to pay then imo.
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Post by onlyMark on Sept 8, 2020 7:45:27 GMT
We eloped to New York one weekend to avoid all the hassle. Got married in City Hall.
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Post by tod2 on Sept 8, 2020 8:01:41 GMT
I assume that in most black cultures, the son rather than the daughter would also have received (almost) everything, too. The world still needs to make a lot of progress. Yes, I think you are right Kerouac as he must be able to afford a bride. I don't know about all the black nations in South Africa, but being surrounded by the Zulu culture, I can tell you that first the man expects his girlfriend to have at least one child so it is proof she can pass on his family line. He must then go to her parents and show his intention of marrying her by paying her parents "Lobola" in the form of either cattle or cash depending what suits them best. This is an expensive business and takes him years to pay if off. Finally in later years they marry. If he can pay it sooner they marry younger. Don't ask me who pays for the TWO ceremonies. First the "White wedding" with the bride wearing a formal wedding gown, bridesmaids and he with his Bestman etc. , followed by the traditional wedding. I know that our builder/bricklayer man wanted a wife so he went to Lesotho and brought back a maiden as there is no requirement to pay for her. Because they are not legally married she is seeking South African citizenship to be able to stay here. There are some very strange arrangements here and most unfathmable. enanda.co.za/2013/07/zulu-traditional-wedding-umabo/
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Post by questa on Sept 9, 2020 3:53:23 GMT
I had to pay for everything but I wanted a 'real' wedding so I hired my dress and veil, polished my white shoes, booked 2 Mercedes, a smallish function hall for the reception and a light finger food catering. We had a photographer for some formal pics and a talented amateur did the informal ones for free. My friends in the folk singing scene provided entertainment. I had made flowers for the church myself and early on the day driven cross town to collect the florist bouquets etc.To hair salon while my minions in the car club reported that the groom was awake, able to stand and having vegemite toast to keep up his strength.
I think I have posted the events of the day somewhere here so I will just say you can have a classic wedding without breaking the bank. I was earning $1 per hour then, and the nuptials cost under $150.
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Post by mich64 on Sept 9, 2020 4:28:07 GMT
We paid for all our wedding expenses. My parents were to pay for half of the catering costs but they separated 3 days before our wedding, long story, anyway we were pretty proud of ourselves to have paid our own way (aged 19 & 20) for the wedding and our honeymoon to Orlando.
It is now pretty much standard that both parents are expected to help out in some way, though there are still some traditional weddings where the brides family pays most costs except for the rehearsal dinner which the grooms parents are expected to pay.
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Post by mossie on Sept 9, 2020 11:17:19 GMT
My wife paid most of our wedding expenses, she was the only one with a bank account! There were about 40 attended the sit down reception and I still have the bill, itemised. Breakfast £20 .16 .6, Decoration £1 .15 .0 and Drinks £22 .4 .6, grand total £44 .16 .0. We had a posh honeymoon, 2 weeks in Jersey including flying out there. And so we cleared out the account, but keeping her in the manner to which she was accustomed and raising 3 brats cost me considerably more. Worth it in the end I suppose.
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Post by bjd on Sept 9, 2020 11:32:28 GMT
Glad to know it was worth it, Mossie! We had a very small wedding. I bought a silk blouse and skirt, we were married at City Hall in Toronto. The next day we had a small party at my mother's house with family and friends. No limousines or anything. A week later my husband returned to Texas where he was doing a post-doc. Then 3 months later I quit my job and moved to France and we went on a honeymoon to Scotland. My son and daughter-in-law had 2 weddings. A 3-day affair in France for local family and friends after the city hall ceremony. They did everything themselves, including cooking a lot of the food, my daughter-in-law made her own dress, her brother and friends provided the music. We paid for the champagne and wine. A few months later, there was a wedding in Colombia for her Colombian relatives who hadn't been able to come to France. Since her parents are really religious, there was a religious ceremony but it didn't last too long because there were power cuts and the lights kept going out and the organist couldn't play his electric organ. My daughter and son-in-law did everything for their own wedding too and only invited immediate family (parents and siblings). No white dress, a city hall ceremony and then a party in the backyard of the building they were living in with a barbecue and games. My youngest son and girlfriend have a civil partnership. They just went to the court to fill out the forms and then went away together for a couple of days.
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Post by casimira on Sept 12, 2020 23:15:28 GMT
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Post by lagatta on Sept 13, 2020 0:15:08 GMT
Bravo!
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 13, 2020 1:35:51 GMT
That is so cool and appropriate that he got his own air show!
Your neighbor is a loony-tune weenie.
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Post by questa on Sept 13, 2020 5:47:09 GMT
Casi, your neighbour sounds like the guy who saw a complete double rainbow while out hiking. His reaction went viral.
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Post by mossie on Sept 13, 2020 7:05:30 GMT
The chemical clot obviously pays close attention to his president
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Post by tod2 on Sept 13, 2020 7:44:03 GMT
Silly man. If they were spraying chemicals over your area they would use crop-dusters . Anything higher wouldn't land in the right place.
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 13, 2020 16:44:20 GMT
The chemical clot obviously pays close attention to his president. Priceless, Mossie!
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Post by rikita on Sept 15, 2020 21:49:29 GMT
we paid ourselves, too, but then our wedding didn't cost that much - and so did my brother and his wife, their was more expensive, though still quite informal. quite a few people gave money instead of presents, to help pay for the wedding (and because they of course already had all the household items they needed), so that helped with part of the cost ...
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Post by onlyMark on Sept 16, 2020 6:27:30 GMT
but being surrounded by the Zulu culture, Tod, does this mean anything to you? Supposed to be a (modern) version of a traditional Zulu wedding song. Lyrics translate as - "My parents have left me in the middle of nowhere. I'm too young to get married, I'm so helpless. May my uncles please beg my father not to do this to me. My father has sold me off to the negotiators. Mother, I truly don't know how things will turn out, you might be tossing me forever. Since I'm now about to be part of a family I don't even know."
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Post by bixaorellana on Sept 16, 2020 6:52:50 GMT
That's really beautiful!
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