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Post by spindrift on Feb 21, 2010 18:27:31 GMT
Would anyone like to be enlightened as to how these are carried out?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2010 18:40:34 GMT
Spindrift, I am constantly surprised that you have the scruples to ask such a question. The whole reason that this site exists is to be able to talk about travel and other parts of the world. I think that all of us are quite ignorant about all sorts of subjects, and I am consistently delighted to be informed by posts and photo essays about various things which I would of course be too ignorant to even ask about, when I know nothing about the subject. I think that people should not ask themselves if their subject interests other people but should go ahead and post about it if they themselves are interested in it. Discovery of the unknown is fabulous. And some of my own subjects have been discovered and appreciated (?) weeks or even months later, which is another reason that I don't worry about it. If it is worth reading about, somebody will find it sooner or later, even if it is one of our numerous Google guests.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2010 18:43:47 GMT
I have some idea of how it's done, Spindrift. But only because I saw a documentary on T.V. just a few weeks ago. It was about a young man who worked at such a place. I'll see if I can look it up for you. I agree, these kind do need to be addressed and are interesting. Not all things in life are pleasant, but they are still a part of life.
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Post by spindrift on Feb 21, 2010 18:51:52 GMT
Thank you for your encouragement. I only hesitated because one of our dear posters was anxious in case I posted a picture of my extracted teeth! The pictures I have taken (over several visits) of cremation rites at the ancient temple of Pashupatinath could be disturbing for some. I say this because several of my friends are horrified to view them on my computer! I myself visit Pashupatinath as often as I can so that I can continue to contemplate the inevitable as a way of preparation
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Post by onlymark on Feb 21, 2010 20:00:36 GMT
What K2 is trying to say, but in a far less eloquent and understandable way, is similar to the great Donald Rumsfeld when he so clearly and succinctly stated - There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.
I rest my case.
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Post by spindrift on Feb 22, 2010 9:34:18 GMT
I'll start uploading pictures soon.....
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Post by spindrift on Feb 22, 2010 16:55:00 GMT
The ancient Hindu temple of Pashupatinath, Kathmandu is situated on the banks of the sacred Bagmati river. It is the largest temple in the world that is dedicated to the Lord Shiva. It was established in the 5th century. Traditionally, the priests serving at this temple are all Brahmins originating from South India since the time of the Malla kings of Nepal. The temple is of the pagoda style of architecture. The two level roofs are made of copper covered with gold. It has four main doors all covered with silver sheets. Only those born into the Hindu faith are allowed to enter the temple doors to the inner sanctums. Along the banks of the river are ghats used for cremations. The ghats on one (upper) side of the bridge are only used to cremate those of royal birth whilst the ghats on the other side are used for everyone else. The Bagmati river flows through the Kathmandu valley then turns south towards India and eventually empties into the sacred Ganges which, in turn, flows into the Bay of Bengal. Ashes from cremations that are swept into the Bagmati will therefore reach the Ganges. This is the fervent wish of every Hindu.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2010 17:00:34 GMT
That's fascinating, Spindrift. So, being a non-Hindu I would not be allowed in? How would they check or know?
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Post by spindrift on Feb 22, 2010 18:07:18 GMT
I think it's left up to one's honesty, Deyana. I'm pretty sure you could just walk in. I am also sure that I would be stopped.
I do know that Hindu women who are menstruating do not enter any temple. They also, at such a time, do not attend parties, gatherings or visit holy sites. Additionally Hindu men and women who have consumed meat do not enter until ? hours after the meal.
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Post by spindrift on Feb 22, 2010 18:15:23 GMT
The pictures that follow show a young man whose head is being shaved on the mud banks of the Bagmati river. His hair will fall or be put into the water. Shaving of the head (and direct removal of impurities contained in the hair) is an important procedure throughout life in Hinduism. Ritual bathing of mourners, along with shaving and tonsure of men, takes place at or before some cremations. I am pretty sure that women are not encouraged (or allowed) to attend the actual burning. You will notice this in my pictures. At the cremation of his parents it is the duty of the eldest son to crack open the skull at a given time; I think this is to symbolise the releasing of the spirit into the void.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2010 18:20:43 GMT
At the cremation of his parents it is the duty of the eldest son to crack open the skull at a given time; I think this is to symbolise the releasing of the spirit into the void.
Oh my, I don't think I could watch that bit. I wonder what happens if the son doesn't want to or is too squeamish to do this?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2010 18:22:31 GMT
I think it's left up to one's honesty, Deyana. I'm pretty sure you could just walk in. I am also sure that I would be stopped. I do know that Hindu women who are menstruating do not enter any temple. Additionally Hindu men and women who have consumed meat do not enter until ? hours after the meal. That's interesting. I don't think I would try and go in under false pretences.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2010 18:27:25 GMT
I never went to a ritual cremation in Bali, but apparently the mourners make considerable money off the tourists who are brought in groups. I suppose that it a consolation of sorts.
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Post by spindrift on Feb 22, 2010 18:47:38 GMT
Here you see the stone bridge connecting the two banks of the Bagmati. On one side there is the main Shiva temple (as pictured above) and on the other side are small temples and shiva lingams within shrines. It is on this side that you will find the sadhu (holy men), wandering and resident. The depth of the river varies according to the season. In winter the water would be low as the glaciers do not release their abundance of waters until the spring and summer. The Bagmati is polluted and the water is black with grime and debris; nevertheless this water is regarded as sacred. Near the rim of the Kathmandu valley the river spurts out at Chobar Gorge (over which the British constructed an iron bridge in the late 1800s)...and the cleft of the rock at Chobar, allowing the release of the waters, is said to be the result of the Buddhist saint Manjushri cleaving the stone with his sword. Looking ahead at the photo you see a wooded area to the left...this is where, over centuries, hermits and saddhus have made caves in the stone to live in. These caves are still in constant use. You can see across to them from the opposite bank. I didn't photograph them because I was embarrassed at the idea of upsetting the inhabitants.
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Post by spindrift on Feb 22, 2010 18:49:29 GMT
K - there are absolutely no mourners taking money from tourists. The mourners are within the precincts of the temple (apart from having their hair removed) and tourists are not allowed into that area. I could only watch the proceedings from the opposite river bank.
In truth, there are few tourists. Not many wish to see cremations. When I visit Pashupatinath I sit quietly and observe what's going on around me. A young Nepali girl asked me, on my last visit, 'Why do you come here?' and I answered 'I come here to contemplate life and to contemplate death'...
Deyana - that's why women are not permitted to attend cremations...... sons would be brought up with the knowledge of what their duty is when their parents die. I am sure no son would neglect his duty...
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Post by spindrift on Feb 22, 2010 19:45:05 GMT
I am not sure what this picture portrays but it seems to be a ritual offering of powders, milk? and ghee? before the cremation. As far as I know the substances flow down the stone plinth into the river and become a part of it. Now you see a newly-arrived corpse bound in white cloth that has been carried by mourners through the streets of Kathmandu. It has been tied onto bamboo poles. On a busy day most, or all, of the burning ghats would be in use. Notice the chap with the wheelbarrow? His job is to collect the remants of burnt logs that have been swept into the river. Nothing is wasted. These logs will be taken to a nearby brick factory. The logs should preferably be from the Sal tree....but I doubt that everyone could afford them... more to follow
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Post by spindrift on Feb 22, 2010 20:36:01 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2010 21:04:02 GMT
Thanks for this, Spindrift, it's been really interesting. I like the way so much respect is shown to the dead by the people.
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Post by spindrift on Feb 22, 2010 21:13:23 GMT
Yes, there is a lot of respect shown to them. I would like to go that way myself. It seems so natural. Nothing is hidden so there is nothing to fear.
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Post by spindrift on Feb 22, 2010 22:35:04 GMT
I imagine people see the word "cremation" and run away from this thread. Oh well....
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Post by Kimby on Feb 23, 2010 18:22:50 GMT
What length lens did you use, spinny? And was there a tripod involved?
For being on the far side of the river, your camera brought you - and us - right into the action.
Thanks for this thread. I am daydreaming about a trip to India lately, and your posts play right into it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 18:58:51 GMT
Actually, one of the photos shows that "boys will be boys" -- the group of young boys and men looking at the wrapped cadaver. "Cool! When are they going to light the fire?" Those years are a time when males are hopeless.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 19:00:07 GMT
I imagine people see the word "cremation" and run away from this thread. Oh well.... Don't worry about such details. Some threads here are discovered belatedly, and that does not take any value away from the report.
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Post by spindrift on Feb 23, 2010 19:08:02 GMT
Glad you like the thread, Kimby. I have a Canon with a x 12 zoom.....I have found it very useful. I didn't use a tripod. I have only used a tripod once for a night shot of the stupa of Bodhinath lit with lights....I might post that one to show you. I am thinking that I'll buy a x18 zoom on the latest Sony bridge camera. When I'm trekking I can't possibly use a DSLR and have to change lenses when I'm riding a horse.
Actually, apart from Varanasi I don't think one can see cremation ghats in India like you can in Nepal. I think the poorer people use their own ghats downstream on the Bagmati. I also suspect they slaughter buffalos near there....
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Post by spindrift on Feb 23, 2010 19:17:54 GMT
Here is the picture I took with the help of a tripod. I think it was exposed for 30 seconds. Someone helped me as I don't understand tripod/settings. This shows Bodinath Stupa, one of the oldest and largest stupas in the world, all lit up to celebrate the Buddha's birthday in April. There was a full moon.
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Post by Kimby on Feb 23, 2010 20:03:54 GMT
Lovely! And so encouraging that it doesn't take a big SLR with heavy lenses and tripod to capture the photos in this thread.
I'm presuming your camera is digital? How much of the 12x is optical and how much is digital?
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Post by spindrift on Feb 23, 2010 21:54:18 GMT
Kimby - I have the Canon PowerShot S3IS digital camera. It was launched in 2006 so it's quite old now. It has a 12x optical zoom and (only) 6megapixels. I don't know about the digital zoom capability. I would like to buy the Sony DSC-HX1 bridge camera....costing around £240. This has a 20x optical zoom lens, please read the review link here: www.dpreview.com/reviews/sonydschx1/. Are you looking to buy a new camera? I reckon that the Sony DSC-HX1 has everything I need for fairly demanding trekking shots from the easy ones standing on my two feet to the more tricky ones of jogging up and down on horseback to the worst option of me hanging onto a narrow ledge for dear life. I have the camera ready to use most of the time! It also has the magnificent capability of automatically stitching up to 15? shots together for landscapes. This is a marvellous extra.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2010 22:02:13 GMT
Now that I have changed cameras and the new one has a battery with a battery charger that needs to be plugged in, I would worry about access to electricity in some of the more remote places.
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Post by Kimby on Feb 23, 2010 22:14:39 GMT
If you have a vehicle, you can have electricity. Maybe.
We have a DC-AC inverter that plugs into a car's cigarette lighter/power point and converts 12V DC to 120 V AC so when we have a vehicle (rental car, campervan, our own car) we have an electric outlet that our camera's battery charger can plug into. Or Mr. Kimby's shaver. Or the laptop.
It cost about $25 and is called Powerline Mobile AC Outlet. Don't know if it's available for 240 volt and european plug, though...
(I tried googling that question and found a bunch of video reviews, and also that they now make them with 2 outlets, plus a USB port, but nothing about 240 V.)
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Post by spindrift on Feb 23, 2010 22:23:19 GMT
I use power batteries specially made for digital cameras. They last ages. They are Energizer Lithium AA batteries lasting up to 630 digital photos....then change to another new four. The batteries are easy to carry but are never to be found in the bundu. You must buy them in a sharp town.
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