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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2010 0:56:46 GMT
Yes, I know that the film and the literary work take place in Savannah, but the setting of Charleston, South Carolina seemed even more appropriate during my visit today. One of the best things about Charleston is that it had no tall buildings. Everything downtown has remained as low as 100 years ago, wtih a very few exceptions of some of the large hotels, which probably were awarded their construction permits in exchange for healthy bribes. In view of current events, and contrary to what people think of the American South in terms of risks, it is useful to point out that the city was completely destroyed by a 7.5 earthquake on August 31st, 1886. The earthquake was felt in Chicago, Milwaukee, New Orleans, Cuba and Bermuda, to name the farthest places from Charleston that felt it. Naturally, 7.5 is much stronger than the 7.0 earthquake that just devastated Port-au-Prince. So, just about the entire city was built after 1886, and that gives the feel to the downtown business district. Considering what happened in 1886, fake cornices are about the last thing that should have been built on the new buildings, but they were all the rage in the final phase of the 19th century, and here they are waiting for the moment to fall. (to be continued)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2010 3:00:55 GMT
No southern city is complete without a big park full of live oaks, and Charleston is no exception. Oak bark is incredibly tough and protective. Anyway, the oaks themselves are super resilient and they are often the only trees that are still there after a hurricane, even if their leaves are ripped off by the wind. Is anybody thirsty? I spotted a somewhat mysterious monument in one corner of the park. What did this mean on the sundial? The back of the monument held the answer. Deaths are already bad enough during a war, but when there is a tragedy just because of an accident, it is almost worse. It was time to start examining some of the lovely houses that I could see peeking out from behind the oaks. (to be continued)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2010 3:23:36 GMT
On multiple visits to Charleston,the thing that always struck me was how little funk there was and a pervasive lack of local color,everything so pristine and preserved. In a word,no soul. Very pretty though. See if you can get out to Folly Beach if you have time.I used to spend a lot of time there,great old boardwalks,very funky,no pretense.Great to ride a bike along the shore at low tide.Fine oysters too. Those live oaks don't look very old. I think Charleston did lose quite a few in Hugo,or one of those big hurricanes in the late 1980's,early 1990's.
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Post by lola on Jan 16, 2010 3:23:51 GMT
Wonderful, K.
Aren't fake cornices a riot?
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Post by hwinpp on Jan 16, 2010 5:10:15 GMT
Is it so cold that the cyclists need scarves? I'd have thought it was hot year round. No sun either?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2010 5:33:56 GMT
As everybody kept saying on the news, this is the very first day of the year that it did not freeze overnight on the coast. And in fact the temperature got up to 20° today (it was maybe 14-15° when I took the photo). A lot of people have a time delay for changing the way they dress -- yet I also saw a few people wearing shorts today, but that is of course a university lifestyle challenge in the U.S. these days. When I was a university student in Los Angeles long ago, nobody would have ever worn shorts in January. Now, thousands of them do, just because their mothers would be horrified.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jan 16, 2010 5:44:34 GMT
Too strange -- even though I graduated from high school in Savannah, which is not that far from Charleston, I've only ever driven through Charleston and never knew about the earthquake. It's been a long time since I was there, but it used to look very natural & not "discovered".
Was it very early morning when you took the pics?
Wonderful thread, and that last house is very "midnight in, etc." There are some great buildings. I guess your AnyPort heart leapt at the sight of the Kress building, right? (I looked it up & read that it has "Mayan revival elements", whatever those might be.)
Love the live oaks, but where is the Spanish moss? In Savannah the street crews used to have to cut it away to keep it from obscuring traffic lights.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2010 11:58:36 GMT
I only saw one tree with Spanish moss in the downtown area. It has clearly been eradicated voluntarily, which would fit in with casimira's comment about Charleston. Actually, I found the downtown area to be "semi-authentic," because it is preserved but not overly preserved. Naturally, all of the old time commerces have been replaced by organic restaurants and high end clothiers, but that is absolutely the only way that these rare downtowns can be saved. You absolutely cannot expect to find Joe's Hardware or Maggie's Diner in the 21st century. As it is, there were plenty of empty storefronts, as many of the high end efforts had already failed. On the west coast, I would say that Santa Barbara looks exactly like this. It also managed to save its downtown by turning it into a chic shopping zone -- and both cities are full of university students whose pockets do not appear to be empty. The photos were taken around 11 a.m. Anyway, I was fascinating by the houses, because there are definitely of a world to which I do not belong, even though I grew up in an area with the same sort of houses (95% of which have now been destroyed by two merciless hurricanes). These were just some of the houses surrounding the park, before I moved to a more upscale area...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2010 1:30:05 GMT
Many of the houses directly on the waterfront have probably been rebuilt more than once over the years. Anything this close to the water doesn't stand much of a chance in a hurricane. Nevertheless, if you can afford houses like these, you can probably afford the insurance that goes with them. This one was my favorite, because I really liked the side porch with the fans, away from the traffic (not that there was much traffic). Frankly, I would imagine the interior of these houses to be unliveable to a person like me. You can't leave a magazine on a table or move a cushion around. I hope the gardener charges extra for keeping these steps perfectly trimmed. The owner of the "don't tread on me" house had graced both sides of the entrance with statues of himself. I wonder if the pets that live in these houses realize the extreme comfort of their condition. I would imagine that the cat would be just as happy in an abandoned factory except at meal time. The dog, however, probably just loves his sunny porch. This little man with the kneepads kept jogging all over the neighborhood. I saw him several times, totally oblivious to the world and seemingly unable to stop. Probably a nurse comes out and reels him in after awhile. (to be continued)
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Post by bixaorellana on Jan 17, 2010 1:51:15 GMT
Big imposing houses, yes, but not the grand beauties of the Mississippi gulf coast, in my opinion. Maybe it's because I don't care all that much for Federal style, which is what I believe these are. (or maybe not -- I don't know that much about architecture) Gorgeous and interesting thread, though. I love the pensive kitty behind the wrought iron swirls and wonder if you'll catch up with the intrepid old jogger & get his story .......... or imagine a good one for him, a la Paul Theroux. architecturally-related threadjack: www.epinions.com/review/Book_Vanished_Mississippi_Jim_Fraiser/content_391397019268
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Post by cristina on Jan 17, 2010 3:47:07 GMT
K, these photos are wonderful! Thanks for taking us along on your trip... The "Don't Tread on Me" flag has an important history. It is actually based on a sort of political cartoon by Ben Franklin and meant to unite the original 13 colonies. It was also the first political cartoon in America, although slightly altered since. I have no comment on the pig statues. Regarding the Charleston homes on the waterfront: I lived in North Carolina during Hurricane Hugo, much further inland. Many very old oak trees were ripped out of the ground and there was a fair bit of damage given our location. Many of my colleagues were from, or had family, in Charleston and I found it interesting that very few of the old houses, even those along the water, had irreparable damage. Newer houses were flattened, but the old houses stood. Obviously there were roof repairs or flood damage, but nothing like the homes built in later years, even further inland.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2010 3:54:53 GMT
I agree that these massive houses seem quite cramped on their lots, but I was reading that Charleston used to be one of the largest cities in the United States (#5 at one time), and that obviously densified the available land. In any case, once I got away from the waterfront boulevard, the houses were more modest and even closer together, yet they were clearly occupied by the next caste of the monied classes. I saw a number of gardeners at work because even in January nature needs to be kept under control in a place like South Carolina. They were obviously paid by the hour, because I have not seen such slow motion sweeping since I was in southern India during a heat wave. Lots of the houses and quite a few shops in the city use decorative gas lamps at their doors, burning 24 hours a day. I find this pitiful. I also saw a number of other houses flying the rattlesnake flag. Even though one learns about this flag during American History classes, all of my knowledge about it had faded away, so I looked it up. It was actually one of the first United States flags, before the 'Stars & Stripes' were designed. It is called the Gadsden flag after its South Carolinian creator, and is considered to be a symbol of Charleston. This little pink house was sort of amazing in its placement. It is actually quite deep, but that doesn't make the rooms any wider. I would have wanted to take some photos of the less affluent zones of Charleston, because they were quite quirky and interesting as well, but it is not always easy to take photographs in such areas. I did notice that while most of the "poor part of town" was nearly all black in the past, not it seems to be much more mixed with some obvious examples of alternative living. I did catch a glimpse of a hostel for backpackers as I was passing through. Then I was on a bridge out of the city, but I still had some other places to see on my agenda for the day. (to be continued)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2010 4:22:04 GMT
Thanks for the clarification on the" Don't Tread on Me" flag Cristina.Many people are offended by it,not knowing what it really is. I think they get it confused with the Rebel Flag.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jan 17, 2010 4:39:22 GMT
It thrills me to see "to be continued" at the bottom of these posts! I associate the "don't tread on me" flag & slogan with the 13 original colonies & the war for independence. I didn't know about the SC connection -- would have guessed Rhode Island or something. I can't imagine mixing it up with the Rebel flag. Boy, lots of what you show in this most recent post looks like uptown New Orleans. About the little slice of cake house ......... I strongly suspect that we're looking at the end of it and that it's been renovated to make that a front entrance. My guess is that it was a slave quarters building. It certainly is the same shape & placed the same as many in N.O.
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Post by cristina on Jan 17, 2010 4:52:11 GMT
Thanks for the clarification on the" Don't Tread on Me" flag Cristina.Many people are offended by it,not knowing what it really is. I think they get it confused with the Rebel Flag. Casimira, I think the flag has probably taken on more meaning akin to the confederate flag as a result of, or during the civil war. But the original rattlesnake variant, along with the words, had a much different meaning before Gadsen revised it. I wonder though, if you asked someone who flew the flag on their home, what it meant to them, what kind of answer you would get? By the way, the Don't Tread on Me phrase, along with the rattlesnake, is also, since 9/11 the US Navy's maritime Jack flag. The background is different though - red and white stripes. Charleston is a naval port (in fact my brother was stationed there for a long time), so that may also contribute to the occurrences of public flag displays. It also seems to me that the motto was, or is on a US coin, but I can't remember (and have no coins laying around to check). (Sorry to hijack, kerouac...but you're in the general vicinity of much of my younger life so its hard to contain myself sometimes. )
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Post by bjd on Jan 17, 2010 9:45:06 GMT
This is the first time I see anyone's "personal" pictures of this part of the States. Interesting how you can immediately tell that it's North America -- it can't be anywhere else. Why are the streets so empty?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2010 11:03:02 GMT
The streets are empty compared to Europe because nobody walks anywhere.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2010 11:04:57 GMT
Cristina,I will make a point of asking my husband.(He flies it on certain holidays. ) BJD,everytime I've ever been to Charleston,aside from the tourists in the downtown areas near the harbor,(sight seeing,shopping,dining etc.) I have never seen much in the way of the everyday pedestrian traffic that one sees in other major,or semi major Southern cities. You certainly don't see the racial mix that you would find in say, Savannah,Atlanta and most certainly New Orleans.It's very segregated in that regard. Many people I know who evacuated there for Katrina and some who relocated there all commented on this fact. There are a number of fine restaurants along Broad Street,and nearby,generally out of my price range,but,I have had some wonderful meals there. At one point Charleston rivaled New Orleans as a major U.S. Port.
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Post by spindrift on Jan 17, 2010 11:55:49 GMT
This thread is overwhelming. I know little or nothing about everyday life in the United States. Kerouac has inspired me to want to travel around and see for myself. Thank you for posting these marvellous pictures which capture the essence of the town. I suddenly feel very ignorant about the US. It's time for me to go west and forget the east for a while.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2010 12:06:52 GMT
I drove a number of miles south to Beaufort, which is sort of a swampy dead end on the coast and most famously the location of Parris Island, the Marine Corp boot camp, and various other military installations. The whole economy lives off the military, and you very rarely see a young man without a buzzcut, even if they are not in uniform. Even some of the driving instructions appear to have been written by drill sergeants. I would have wanted to know what to do if I don't want to change lanes at all, and I probably would have been slapped down for it. I guess some people need to be told everything, though. After all, a lot of people join the military because they are seeking direction in their lives. Plenty of directions here! Anyway, I finally got to the old part of town, and it had the mossy ambience that I was looking for. Even though I grew up with Spanish moss, it never ceases to intrigue me -- how it gets there, how it grows. It always feels dry and dusty as though it is not alive at all, but there is always more of it if you do not remove it. Some trees are absolute moss magnets. Military towns tend to have military cemeteries. Did these people die in boot camp or elsewhere? I was also thinking that many of the people buried in such a place are probably there because they had no family at all or were estranged from all their relatives. There were some other graves scattered around next to the military zone. It was not even clear to me whether it was an official cemetery or not. I continued down to Savannah, the official location of the "garden of good and evil." This central square would have been nice except that most of the benches were occupied by homeless people. In fact, Savannah was absolutely overflowing with homeless people, whereas I had not seen a single one in Charleston. Often this sort of thing has more to do with the attitude of the local police than the economic situation of the town. In any case, Savannah clearly cultivates the tourist trade aggressively with all sorts of tourist trolleys, carriage rides and outdoor cafés. Yes, even ridiculous Segway tours. It didn't seem like an unpleasant place, but from what I saw, frankly I preferred Charleston. Anyway, I was glad to have seen some places that I had never visited, even though I get almost nothing out of such a trip by never planning ahead. I had no idea where I was going and just followed the roads at random every day. Always on the outside looking in.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2010 15:30:02 GMT
My eldest niece lives in Beaufort and it is a lovely town. It was even lovelier ,as most places were,twenty years ago when she moved there.(it is also home to author Pat Conroy,author of "The Prince of Tides"among other novels,almost all set there).That whole coastal area is referred to as "Low Country". In the 1980's there was a huge artist's movement there,lots of aging hippies escaping city life,moved there, and set up shop. At that time, there were many good galleries,foundries,off the beaten path restaurants and music haunts. It is nothing like that now I'm afraid. Pity I didn't know you were going K., I would have had my niece give you a insider's guided tour of the area.She's much nicer than I am ,although physically, we resemble one another very closely,so much so,that we are often mistaken for mother and daughter.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jan 17, 2010 15:56:55 GMT
I really really am enjoying this, Kerouac, as this kind of thing will always look like home to me. My family left Savannah in 1966, and I didn't see it again until @20 years later. I was driving south to Florida from NC, & did not recognize Savannah at all. When I lived there, it was a small city which could not keep its young people, as there was nothing for them once they got some education. It had a junior college which I think is now part of the university system. The ongoing wrangle was whether or not some of the many small downtown parks should be turned into parking. There was no gentrification going on then, and many of the old houses had been turned into cheap apartments. At the time we left, Hunter AFB was closing, which must have affected the local economy. I can definitely see how you would prefer Charleston to what appears to be a very touristy Savannah. Did you get any photos of the landscape around these three cities -- the vast salt marshes that give Savannah its name? The scenery around Charleston is breathtakingly beautiful because of all the marshes and water. A fun bit of trivia for those who don't already know -- Spanish moss and pineapples are relatives, as they are both members of the bromeliad family. Here is the Wikipedia article, & another fun one on its uses. If you're old enough, you might remember sitting in the back seats of older cars as a child, surreptitiously feeling the strange dried curls in a hole in the upholstery. That was Spanish moss. I love the way you combined these three cities in one thread, as they really belong together and it's interesting to seem them compared in this way. You take such great road trip pictures, too -- much more than the sterile-but-pretty brochure kind of stuff that's generally shown with online info about a place.
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Post by spindrift on Jan 17, 2010 23:55:05 GMT
I never would have guessed that Spanish moss and pineapples are related. Knowing nothing about the moss I'll read the Wiki link.
Good pictures, Kerouac. Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2010 3:19:02 GMT
I never would have guessed that Spanish moss and pineapples are related. Knowing nothing about the moss I'll read the Wiki link. One of the things I'm sure they don't mention in the Wiki article is that Spanish moss has hundreds of teeny tiny bugs living in it...I found out one Mardi Gras when I incorporated some of it into my costume... (Someone told me later that you're supposed to boil it first before donning ,(I'm a Yankee!,don't know these things.)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2010 7:26:13 GMT
I fear that I did not get off the main roads enough and did not visit the swampy areas as I should. The weather was not really conducive to it either.
However, I do have a thread planned regarding a small town quite a bit off the beaten track.
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Post by bixaorellana on Jan 18, 2010 7:43:08 GMT
Don't you think it's time you got back to your southern roots? Settle down in a place with a porch and a coon hound, get you some sippin' whiskey and a rocker, and wax incomprehensibly eloquent to the locals in your charming accent.
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Post by spindrift on Jan 18, 2010 11:42:18 GMT
Casi - no, Wiki does not mention the tiny bugs that live in the moss.....
And I'm looking forward to K's thread about the small town off the beaten track.
Bixa - K has a charming accent? do you mean American laced with French?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2010 12:08:13 GMT
Maybe Cajun country would be more apropos. There are these wonderful dogs bred down in the bayou country,called Catahoula hounds.Would be just the ticket.
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Post by imec on Jan 18, 2010 14:51:23 GMT
I love this thread kerouac! Never been to SC and I really feel like I'm getting a good flavour for the place. Thanks so much for the effort you've put into this - fantastic!
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Post by hwinpp on Jan 19, 2010 8:03:30 GMT
I've got an old, old friend in Charleston, I just remembered. Are you still there, Jack?
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