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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2010 23:42:24 GMT
Have you ever considered it? Have you ever done it? Are you working abroad right now?
I guess if I was going to, the logical place for me would be to work in the UK. Various reasons for this, I have family and friends there, it's easy access to the rest of Europe, which I want to explore. and it's much easier to get to India and the far East from there than where I am at present. Also I don't need a work visa, since I am a E.U. Citizen already.
Have you had any experience of working abroad? Where was it and how did it turn out?
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2010 2:10:22 GMT
Curious that you should post this Deyana. I have toyed with the idea on numerous occasions of going to teach English either in Korea or Thailand,perhaps Vietnam. The idea of being able to travel to these parts of the world and work has enormous appeal to me. I have several friends who have done so and had great experiences by and large. The pay is not enormous but,the travel opportunities and cultural exposure are most appealing. I recently got some more information on how one goes about becoming certified to be able to do this,it involves taking a course of instruction online.I am seriously considering doing it. I have the info if anyone is interested.
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Post by onlymark on May 8, 2010 6:06:26 GMT
casimira, teaching English abroad is big business. As such there are qualifications available all over the place and you have to be wary that the one you go for, from whatever organisation, is authentic and relevant. There are scams everywhere, especially online. Just in case you didn't realise the extent of it.
The only time I worked abroad in a conventional sense was three months in San Francisco. I terminated the job as it turned out not to be what either I was good at nor what it was touted to be. I enjoyed my time there but not the job at all.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2010 10:01:11 GMT
Thanks for the heads up on this Mark. Yes,I'm aware that there are scams. The information I received is from a woman who received her certification from this particular organization,went to Korea for 2 years and had a marvelous experience. I also have a dear friend here in New Orleans,a retired law professor,who spends half of the year in Thailand,has been doing so for quite a number of years now.Through him,I have made some connections with some places in Thailand,all very legit.I may even arrange to go over there for a visit first before committing to anything.His knowledge of the place would be a tremendous opportunity for me to explore this more. I wouldn't think of doing this without thoroughly researching it beforehand,I assure you. Do you know many people who have taught English abroad? Any other info would be most welcome. I have been thinking about doing this for years,and I'm not getting any younger...so may be time to just do it!! Thanks!
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Post by bjd on May 8, 2010 12:14:49 GMT
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Post by onlymark on May 8, 2010 13:12:02 GMT
I know of my brother who teaches English, but in Spain, and his circumstances were very different. That's all.
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Post by onlymark on May 8, 2010 13:14:18 GMT
bjd, that was a site I was trying to think of as it's been mentioned a few times on the Thorn Tree as reliable for info. But I didn't have time to search, I had to take the kids to the cinema as it touching 40 degrees here today and too hot for much outside.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2010 14:58:45 GMT
casimira, that sounds like a plan. I'd say go for it. It will probably be a fantastic experience for you. I've heard of others (on TT), who have taught ESL in various counties and the feedback is all positive. They go back again and again. I know there was one woman who worked in a mundane job in a bank in the US and she would literally count down the days when she could hop on that plane to (I think it was) China and go and teach her students.
I'm planning on working in the UK, (not so exotic I know). I have to wait for my two oldest to graduate first though. I think I'll do it for around two years, at least that is the plan right now. It'll be nice to be near my mother too , yet another reason to go.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2010 16:14:49 GMT
Yes,it is something that I've pondered on for awhile.Some years back my husband talked about doing some work abroad as a Paramedic in of all places Borneo,(the pay was spectacular). I was very excited about it,but,it didn't pan out. Just think,I came that close to being a "wild woman of Borneo"!! Thanks for the link BJD!
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Post by Jazz on May 8, 2010 16:59:12 GMT
casimira, teaching English abroad is big business. As such there are qualifications available all over the place and you have to be wary that the one you go for, from whatever organisation, is authentic and relevant. There are scams everywhere, especially online. Just in case you didn't realise the extent of it... Casi, I’ve also been thinking of this off and on in the last few years. Mark has made some great points. The information available online is somewhat overwhelming and it’s good to be cautious. Bjd, your site, is excellent and I have looked at it in the past. The TESOL courses are short, inexpensive and probably worth it. Moving in the moment…I have a friend who had been traveling in South East Asia for a year, ended up in Thailand and wasn’t quite ready to come home. Somehow, she met someone who told her to go to Japan and teach English. Off she went, and within the first week she was offered 4 teaching jobs! (she did not speak Japanese) She accepted one and stayed for a year and loved it. This is what I found interesting: not only did she not have a teaching degree, she did not have a university degree, nor was she the most articulate person that I know, far from it. I have a university degree, and a teaching degree, so it may very well be possible. My feeling is that it would be a good idea to take the TESOL 4-week course. About 4 years ago, I looked into this. Then, and now, I think it would depend on where you want to teach. My feeling is that you could find many possible jobs in SEA. Europe is a different story. At that time, I was thinking of Paris, or SEA. Obviously, the Paris jobs are limited. The pay was decent, but modest. This idea is never far from my mind and I think it’s very doable. (for SEA, not Paris) Years ago, I did work in Europe, waitressing and tutoring…all under the table and long before the days of EU work status. Deyana, you are fortunate to have work status. I don’t, or might possibly, since one set of grandparents were born in Europe (Ireland/Scotland) But, I have no documentation to prove this and all of my older family members are dead (with names and memories) and I would not know how to track this down.
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Post by onlymark on May 8, 2010 17:10:11 GMT
But, I have no documentation to prove this and all of my older family members are dead (with names and memories) and I would not know how to track this down.
I bet you have enough information to do so, but it depends on how much you want to pay. There are professional organisations that will find out quite quickly for you. The hardest part would be confirming your link to that person. But also, it's no use finding out and then also finding out that it has no advantage to you as the relation is too far removed, even grandparents, to give you benefit when seeking a work status in Europe. It varies from country to country and it would be pot luck if the nationality of your relation was also close enough for that nation.
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Post by bjd on May 8, 2010 17:45:46 GMT
not only did she not have a teaching degree, she did not have a university degree, nor was she the most articulate person that I know, far from it
I must say I find this wrong. She was unqualified, and as you say not articulate, yet on the basis of being a native speaker went to teach people who were probably paying quite a lot for English lessons. I am surprised that the school hired her. If they did so, they were being dishonest.
Being a native speaker is not enough. I started learning Spanish with an Argentinian friend. Of course, she is a native speaker, and could tell me "this is how we say it" or "that doesn't sound right", but was not capable of explaining anything about the grammar or why something was correct or incorrect. It wasn't too important because I wasn't paying her (we exchanged English for Spanish), but I don't think this should be the case for an official teacher.
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Post by bixaorellana on May 8, 2010 20:02:13 GMT
One of my brothers taught ESL to adults at the university level for many years, and I have a sister who was a high school ESL teacher. I was never in the classroom with my brother, but was privileged to see my sister in action. This is a field that requires real background, dedication, and inspiration. It used to make my brother furious that people thought the mere fact of speaking a language qualifies one to teach it.
I don't doubt that there are people with innate teaching ability who'd be effective in teaching a second language, but that would be the exception.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2010 14:12:08 GMT
Years ago, I did work in Europe, waitressing and tutoring…all under the table and long before the days of EU work status. Deyana, you are fortunate to have work status. I don’t, or might possibly, since one set of grandparents were born in Europe (Ireland/Scotland) But, I have no documentation to prove this and all of my older family members are dead (with names and memories) and I would not know how to track this down. Yes, I guess I am lucky in that way, Jazz. British immigration laws are complicated to say the least and keep changing. It might still be worth a try to get some kind of status via your grandparents. But it could be costly. Even if they refuse you they will not refund your money and it could run into the $1000's. I think as a Canadian, you shouldn't have too much trouble getting a work visa to the UK or other European country, although I don't know too much about it to be honest. I think they can be extended too...
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Post by bjd on May 9, 2010 14:50:54 GMT
I think as a Canadian, you shouldn't have too much trouble getting a work visa to the UK or other European country
No, that's not true. The only way a Canadian can get a work visa in Europe is for the company to prove that there is no European who can do the job. Some countries have working holiday visas, but there is an age limit -- it's for young people.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2010 14:52:55 GMT
Oh really? I had no idea it was like that. hmm...
Like I said in my last post, I don't know too much about it...
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Post by hwinpp on May 11, 2010 8:29:48 GMT
Anybody with (any) degree and a TEFL, CELTA or TESOL will get a job in SEA teaching English. Vietnam and the better schools in China now want to see criminal background checks. Pay is best in Japan and Korea and lowest in Cambodia (7USD/h, 25h/week). Can be rewarding but also very frustrating.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2010 12:27:07 GMT
That's good information there, hwinpp. How is it frustrating though? The actual job you mean?
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2010 13:13:37 GMT
I hated teaching English during the 2 years that I did it. I was even a high school teacher in a School for Bad Girls the second year. Oh, those nasty little vixens! That cured me forever and qualified me to crack the whip on internet sites.
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Post by hwinpp on May 12, 2010 4:39:23 GMT
Well... ;D
It depends a lot on the teacher of course. I know a couple of young guys here without the proper qualifications and definitely the proper mindset who whine all the time.
Teaching English is an easy 'get rich quick' business here. While at the beginning, say 10 years ago, pay was high and locals learned English as a way to advance themselves, now you get English schools being pumped out of the ground, pay has fallen, students learn English because their parents tell them to.
Frustrating things can be that the contract isn't honoured (visa not paid for by employer, promised hours don't materialize), the teachers don't gel among each other, school gets sold and resold, students don't behave the way they're expected to.
Dave's ESL Cafe is famous, link has been posted by bjd.
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Post by cristina on May 12, 2010 5:00:42 GMT
Years ago, I did work in Europe, waitressing and tutoring…all under the table and long before the days of EU work status. Deyana, you are fortunate to have work status. I don’t, or might possibly, since one set of grandparents were born in Europe (Ireland/Scotland) But, I have no documentation to prove this and all of my older family members are dead (with names and memories) and I would not know how to track this down. Jazz, I'm sort of in the same situation as you. Despite being born in Spain, my father was an American citizen at the time of my birth and my parents registered my birth as an American. In 2008, Spain passed the Law of Historical Memory, offering citizenship to descendants of those who fled Spain during the Civil War and Franco's regime. This is exactly what my grandparents did. Fortunately, I do have living aunts and uncles who have been able to give me the necessary details to track down my grandparents' birth certificates. However navigating the Spanish birth records department has not been so easy. I will keep plugging away at it though. And so far am not inclined to hire anyone (except for maybe as a translator for my weak Spanish skills). In the meantime, if I ever decide to flee the US, I do have Canadian citizenship. As for the OP, I have thought about working in Europe after my youngest goes off to university, but mostly I think I would like to retire in Europe. Either in Spain or France, most likely.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 19:48:08 GMT
I hated teaching English during the 2 years that I did it. I was even a high school teacher in a School for Bad Girls the second year. Oh, those nasty little vixens! That cured me forever and qualified me to crack the whip on internet sites. It's amazing how many teachers drop out of the profession. My aunt was a teacher in High School, but gave it up to go into Real Estate. So many others I know that have also dropped out. Must be the stress of the job..
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 19:50:06 GMT
Frustrating things can be that the contract isn't honoured (visa not paid for by employer, promised hours don't materialize), the teachers don't gel among each other, school gets sold and resold, students don't behave the way they're expected to. That's very off putting, and doesn't sound too stable.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 19:56:07 GMT
In the meantime, if I ever decide to flee the US, I do have Canadian citizenship. As for the OP, I have thought about working in Europe after my youngest goes off to university, but mostly I think I would like to retire in Europe. Either in Spain or France, most likely. I was under the impression that if you hold an American citizenship they don't allow you to have any other? I have American friends whose kids are allowed both though, but only because they are under 18 and were born there, even though they live in Canada. I'm a bit confused by the rules actually.
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Post by cristina on May 13, 2010 3:02:13 GMT
Deyana, I do know the US doesn't have any issues with dual citizenship if the second is acquired by birthright, as in my Canadian citizenship (that is, my mother is a Canadian). I am assuming my attempts at recognizing Spanish citizenship would fall into that category as well.
There may be different rules if a US citizen were to go through the naturalization process in another country, but I confess ignorance on specifics.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2010 16:13:49 GMT
That's interesting, cristina. Makes sense though and sounds fair.
I used to have Indian citizenship too, but had to give it up. Or rather my parents gave it up for me as a kid. Reason being that India does not recognize any other citizenship but their own. However they have quite recently allowed people of Indian origin to apply for PIO and similar cards. PIO = Person of Indian origin. These allow people like me (and my kids and their kids, and a husband if I had one, I think it goes three generations), to have the same rights as any other Indian person in India. The only thing we can't do is vote. With this card I pay very little for things like hotels, internal flights within India, entrance fees to places like the Taj Mahal, or University education, plus more, etc. No need for a visa or work permit either. It's very beneficial, I'm in the process of applying for it right now.
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