on-line etiquette in France

[bazfaz]

There is a young woman who lives three doors from us in our village. She is about 30, charming, has a nice young daughter and her husband does our plumbing. When we chat we always vouvoyer.

Yesterday an email arrived from her (asking why we hadn't attended a village event - short answer, I am too busy). But she used tu.

So, do I tutoie her now? Or was this internet only?

[Deleted]

That is now your decision. It gives you the choice of vouvoying her or tutoying her. However, she has also made known her preference. As an older person, you have the right to tutoye her if you want.

[Deleted]

I should add that her usage (unless she is an airhead) indicates pleasantly that she wants to be friends. If you agree, you can use tu. If you prefer to keep your distance, you will use vous.

[fumobici]

Is there a potential element of a rebuff or rejection and associated offense taken in not reciprocating an attempt to move a relationship from the formal to the familiar? I can imagine people getting a little pissy about such stuff.

[Deleted]

I can discuss the intricacies of this for hours, so obviously I shouldn't. Basically, either form of address can express friendliness, indifference or contempt, depending on the person.

[fumobici]

I was just thinking how nice and inclusive it feels to be addressed in the familiar for the first time, and how if one felt that the relationship had reached that point and one were a foreigner or younger and thus not really allowed the initiative to make the change, it could become a trifle annoying waiting.

[Deleted]

Not a problem with young people, but always a problem for older generations. It is however quite common for someone to say "can we tutoye each other?" Foreigners have to wait for this proposal, since they are automatically disqualified in most cases from proposing it (simply because they don't know the 'rules').

[lagatta]

On n'a pas gardé les cochons ensemble!

[Deleted]

I vouvoye certain people to show that I hold them in contempt.
I tutoye certain people to show that I hold them in contempt.

It is all exceptionally subtle.

[spindrift]

Baz - she is young and is making advances. You must repulse her politely. Kerouac will advise whether 'vous' or 'tu' should be employed. However if I were you, I'd say 'vous'...

[Deleted]

It's not that easy!

I would venture that in this case, it is perfectly all right to reply with "tu." The next step would be to see how she addresses you in person.

[spindrift]

K - I was trying to keep him out of trouble

[bazfaz]

Alas Spindrift, there is at least 40 years difference in age between us so I doubt there are advances. For her generation of course there is much more tutoying. And I wonder if it is a regional thing and more easy going here. Villagers in our old place were much more conservative.

[spindrift]

I was semi-joking, Baz....

[lagatta]

I thought you were trying to flatter him... Today I had a shop assistant (small greengrocers) qui m'a tutoyé, mais en m'appelant "Madame". To be fair, while his French is perfect, he is from a North African country and the formal is very rare in Arabic. My Arabic teachers have told me that it does exist, but it is rare and courtly.

In general, on tutoie rather more easily in Québec than in France, simply because we are North American and not European, but one has to be careful with that, as it can be insulting, like French people who are too eager to use some Québec slang or swear words that are not considered very cultivated or polite. Tu with madame doesn't work here either.

Modern English has of course pretty much abandoned thee, thou and thine, tending to express this distinction as being on a first name basis, or once again, in other more subtle ways.

Many Italians here do this: Voi est parfois utilisé au lieu de lei, surtout dans le sud de l'Italie, mais cette forme est souvent perçue comme vieillotte. Voi (vous) used instead of Lei (polite Vous): this became popular during the Fascist period and was also common in many dialects; moreover here it remains in force due to the similarity to the French vous.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutoiement_et_vouvoiement

[bazfaz]

In Tunisia they sometimes seem to combine both forms. I had someone say to me: Tu voulez...

[hwinpp]

You could try something that's done in Germany, you could move to first names but keep the vous.

On n'a pas gardé les cochons ensemble!

Lol! We have that in German as well, "... haben wir zusammen die Schweine gehuetet?!?" or more polite, "... haben wir zusammen im Sandkasten gespielt?"