Ideology or lack of same (by K2)

[Deleted]

I do not have a clear ideology, meaning one that is easy to label. I have no philosophical or political idols -- I just take a piece of this, a piece of that and make it my own.

Probably, that is what most people do. I could call myself a 'humanist' or a 'socialist' (maybe even a 'communist') and even sometimes an 'individualist' which of course is a contradition of the first two. It would be interesting to sit down one day and try to develop a coherent and non-contradictory philosophy about my life, but I just don't think it is going to happen.

But I have also known people who seem to have no ideology at all, who just live from day to day and don't really care about others or even themselves. They think they have no choice or no power and that other elements completely control their lives. They just put up with what is happening and keep their head down.

Any thoughts about how you are steering your life or what you are seeing around you?

[fumobici]

I seem to be drifting to the Left politically and becoming more considerate of others in both non-personal social and personal relationships as I get older. But other than being fuzzily anti-clerical, I don't think I've really dug my heels in ideologically in too many places.

[cristina]

When I was younger, I was inclined to stay within the boundaries of a particular ideology. As I've grown older, I've come to realize that the world (or life) is not so black and white as to fit into a neat labeled box. So, yeah, I am all over the place. This does result in some arguments, however.

[Kimby]

I was not raised with a religious ideology, and have not adopted one as I've gotten older. I explore others' belief systems with interest, but mainly as cultural or historical study, not with a mind to "convert".

Politically, I was raised by staunch Democrats who believe they are liberal, but because of the times they grew up in, have got some conservative/reactionary positions that they don't even recognize. I tend to be liberal (a dirty word nowadays, almost akin to socialist which "everyone" knows really means communist), but perhaps a better word is "progressive".

I guess my ideology would be something akin to environmentalism. I believe the earth is the only home we have, and that it is definitely possible that Homo sapiens could make this world uninhabitable, but before that happens, we will make it a far less wonderful, beautiful, bountiful place to live. And sadly, with far fewer fellow animal species to share it with us.

[Deleted]

What was very strange about my parents is that they often claimed to be conservative, and yet everything about their beliefs attested to the contrary. My mother never voted in her entire life (and she is not going to start now), and my father said he voted only once... for JFK.

But they wanted Bush Jr. to win both times, because they "didn't like the look" of the opposing candidate. Basically, they risked nothing since they had a government pension and full medical coverage, so there was no reason to do anything.

And yet their basic values and opinions were almost always ones of which I approved. It upset me quite a bit.

[onlymark]

I doubt there is one ideology that can cover all the bases so I expect most people with common sense 'pick and mix'.
Otherwise, if you dogmatically stick with one, doesn't that lead to fanaticism?
I can't really put a label on any ideology I have and I do seem to just live from day to day, but I don't not care about others or myself. I do think I have a choice and don't just put up with what is happening and keep my head down.

Maybe I'm just an 'Egoist' - I believe in myself (or is that just another name for an arrogant cynicist?)

[Deleted]

At least the term 'cynicist' means that you have examined the options. There are so many 'simple' (?) people who haven't even done that. They just wait for things to happen.

[Kimby]

Yeah, if you aren't outraged, you're not paying attention!

[Deleted]

Any thoughts about how you are steering your life or what you are seeing around you?

Most of what I do in my life (at the moment) is geared towards kids and family, and I'm okay with. Hell, I'm more than okay with truth be known.

I'm not one to sit back and do nothing or to not think about the future or in which direction my life is going or that I want it to go. I've alway been a planner (and maybe a dreamer too). But the two interact well in a strange way. I try and find a way to make what I want come true and most of the time it works. Sometimes, rarely, it doesn't.

I'm a trier and I don't give up easily, sometimes never, it's just the way I am, the way I'm made. Kerouac, I don't fit into a box either. Not many of us do I think.

[cristina]

I often like to read the comments to news stories before I actually read the story (probably this is why I read magazines backward, too. )

Anyway, I have suddenly realized (rather late, I think), that frequently, the most conservative commenters are the people most likely to post violent or hateful comments.

This came to me after reading a transcript of a (somewhat controversial) speech that referenced Arizona's illustrious immigration and ethnic studies bills, made at my daughter's university graduation 2 weeks ago. Some of the comments on Huffington Post (of the transcript/video) were downright frightening. And the speaker has received hate mail threatening enough that she must involve the police.

While I support the speaker's point of view, I did think it went a bit too long in that vein given the venue, however I do fully support free speech, a fundamental right in the US, at least. And the speech was made at the convocation for the College of Social and Behavioral Science, so I fully support Dr Soto's right to reference current events and the responsibilities of these graduates to take a stand.

(Unfortunately, only one person in the crowd of thousands videotaped her speech so the only part that made Youtube was someone slanted). Read the transcript. Its faster, anyway.

Anyway, at the risk of generalizing...it does seem that the more conservative of the people who leave comments on news stories are the ones most likely to leave violent comments.

So, I might be slightly off topic, but I needed a moment to vent. Thank you for your patience.

[hwinpp]

I've been personally conservative all my life but occasionally I do see the good in changing things. Otherwise I follow 'don't do unto others what you don't want yourself' unless it's absolutely necessary to 'do unto others'...

[auntieannie]

I would like to answer that I strive to lead by example in being a quiet foodist, excited by environmentalism, open minded towards hedonism, passionate about puttheworldtorights-ism

But the truth is I am just a silly human being learning by my mistakes, trying my best to not make a mess of my life or other people's lives.

[imec]

I avoid ideolgies as they all too often get in the way of common sense..

[Deleted]

We have a Centrist politician (François Bayrou) who broke away from the Right. In 2007, he ran for president and came in 3rd, not nearly good enough. Since the Right attacked him the most, he swung towards the Left. That didn't work so he tried the Center again. He was down to 4% in the last election. Now he is going back towards the Right. Everybody finds him risible. Politicians need to defend an identifiable ideology or they do not exist at all.

[bixaorellana]

So true. The public needs to know for whom and what they're voting.

I haven't responded to this thread because my answer would be so similar to those of the other participants in terms of not being a firm adherent to any single ideology. Really, ideologue is not a positive term.

I am drawn to socialism because of its ideals and because it's not really a set ideology, but rather a manner of approaching economics and politics for the greater good. (in its ideal form, anyway). However, since I'm hardly anti-capitalist, I can't call myself a socialist.

[Deleted]

Things like BP make it easy to find reasons not to support capitalism.

In France a year or so ago, the government was talking about the need to close hospitals that were not profitable. It did not take much common sense to agree with the Trotskyist firebrand Olivier Besancenot (in spite of his political party, he is one of the most popular politicians in France) who riposted "why on earth should a hospital be profitable?"

[bixaorellana]

Well, true on both counts there!

But capitalism encompasses such things as farm wives with their "butter and egg money", too, or the guy who gets hold of a truck and a lawnmower and goes to work for himself, which is why I can be so foggy about my ideology.

[joanne28]

I personally don't see capitalism and socialism as being totally exclusive. I guess I'm slightly left of centre. I think we do need to monitor what companies are doing however I don't want government agencies going overboard sticking their noses in everything.

Right now I'm annoyed that Canadian taxpayers are getting stuck with a purported bill of $1 billion for the security with the G8 & G20 conferences. Just so Toronto can pretend it's a world-class city.

[imec]

Jun 8, 2010 16:44:42 GMT joanne28 said:

Right now I'm annoyed that Canadian taxpayers are getting stuck with a purported bill of $1 billion for the security with the G8 & G20 conferences. Just so Toronto can pretend it's a world-class city.

But we do get a "fake lake" out of the deal...

(from the Globe and Mail)

The opposition has been having fun all week with the artificial lake that is being built for a princely sum (about $57,000) in the G20 media center in Toronto. It is part of a $1.9-million Canadian pavilion that brings the outdoors indoors (lake, canoes, Muskoka chairs, fake loon noises) and features business themes that will be on display at the media centre.

NDP leader Jack Layton dubbed the entire affair, “Fake Lake-Gate”.

Today, Liberal leader Michael Ignatieff called it “Lake Wasteamataxes.” He got a laugh.

“This summit could have been practical, could have been focused, could have been modest, could have been oh so Canadian and, instead, it has morphed into a kind of monster,” charged Mr. Ignatieff.

“Can the Prime Minister explain how he managed to lose control of Canada's moment in the sun because everybody knows the only thing anybody is going to remember from this summit is Lake Wastamataxes?”

The Prime Minister defended the costs - again - noting that his government consulted the same people as they did for security at the Vancouver Winter Olympic Games, which were clearly a success.

The latest boondoggle was also discussed today: $1.1-million is to be spent on “wallpaper backdrops” - the identifying logo that will appear behind the Prime Minister and other newsmakers during press conferences and photo-ops.

[Deleted]

$1.1 million for 'wallpaper backdrops' -- I love it! Jeez when you think of all of the graphic designers and artists who would do such things free of charge just for the publicity!

[cristina]

So...my ideology is taking a turn...

After the news about Abby Sutherland's boat being stranded, I came across this article about "shockingly" bad parents. And wile some parents noted might need a reality check, I do not, for one minute, think Abby Sutherland's parents were derelict. Actually, the balloon boy and Alfie Patten were the only one's which made me ill.

In fact, I am an awful parent who makes (or has made) her children do laundry, keep track of the sporting events I am to show up to or drive to, and on occasion, actually cook for themselves.

And I have been called selfish, too.

I love my children more than anything, but I see my (and their father's) role as to advance them to adulthood with all the resources they will need, poste haste. If one of my children had been an accomplished sailor, as Abby Sutherland, I would have had no issue with letting her or him do what she did. Even if it doesn't make me worry less.

As for the cost of the rescue, this is another topic - not restricted to teenage endeavors.

This bad parent article really left a bad taste in my mouth.


Once again, apologies for a derailment. I didn't think about a new thread- my thoughts seemed to fit with ideology (or lack of). Because my actual thoughts are counter to the party I seem to belong to.

[Deleted]

I benefited from complete parental support in all my endeavors. I was too ignorant to notice whether they were even worried about me, but I assume that it must have been somewhat gut wrenching when they allowed me to go on a European trip alone -- for three months -- when I was 17. No mobile phones or other such devices back then; all they could hope for were postcards from time to time. I went from Finland to Portugal, took a ferry from Spain to Africa, slept in the park in Amsterdam for a week and in an abandoned factory in Copenhagen the same...

But what is more interesting is the perception of freedom and support, because my brother felt that he was repressed by my parents and that he couldn't do anything. I should mention that he was more intelligent and more serious than I, but his ambitions were apparently more limited. It served his purpose to blame our parents for this, because that allowed him to avoid responsibility for his life.

Since political structures and the government in place are the "parents" of our adult lives, I think that they are often used as an excuse for being unsuccessful when the problem actually lies elsewhere.

[cristina]

I think many of our generation did exactly what you did, K2. I even did it on another scale. I also think back to the generation before us where at 16 or so one was expected to have an idea of common sense and was considered mature.

This is where I take issue with the left or liberals in the US, even though I generally consider myself to be among them. The phrase "own your actions" comes to mind here. Teach your (our) children to own their actions from childhood. Then, perhaps, we can get rid of adult babysitting by government. I know that is rather simplistic, but I am too exhausted by all of the government stuff I need to fix right now to expound further....

Some day, remind me to tell you about child # 2 (the recent Uni-grad) and her experience at a private college prep school, pre-University. Specifically, the car experience. She hasn't quite yet said thank you, but I feel it coming....

[Kimby]

Jun 15, 2010 6:58:58 GMT kerouac2 said:

But what is more interesting is the perception of freedom and support, because my brother felt that he was repressed by my parents and that he couldn't do anything. I should mention that he was more intelligent and more serious than I, but his ambitions were apparently more limited. It served his purpose to blame our parents for this, because that allowed him to avoid responsibility for his life.

Is your brother the eldest child?

That would explain his lack of adventuring and your parents' lack of encouragement for such adventuring on his part. As an eldest, I feel that I spent a lot of time making my way through the everyday things, whereas my younger sisters were able to benefit from my going first and expand their worlds beyond anything I might have come up with on my own.

[Deleted]

Yes, he is the eldest, but I don't feel that I benefited from anything he did, because he never trailblazed. I had to do it!

[Kimby]

Just living is trailblazing, when you're the first. Going to kindergarten is a big deal. Being a high school freshman is a big deal. The younger ones soak it up by osmosis, and go on to do more adventurous things, since they don't have to figure out the basics on their own. They don't even realize they are benefitting from their older sibling's experiences, it's just part of life to them. (As evidenced in your reply, K2)

[Deleted]

Yes, but starting from age 11, I was the one who led my brother (3 years older) around. This was very convenient for me once he got his driver's licence.

[kerouac2]

It was interesting to reread this thread after eleven years.

I was looking for why we have the opinions that we have since disagreements that should be minor seem to expand into acrimony more and more often. (Could this be a symptom of covid fatigue?)

I have noticed that I am two different people -- online and offline. In real life, I will sit totally passively when people say horrors. I guess growing up with a biological father who often talked about how disgusting niggers were even though he didn't seem to be a bad person most of the time made me decide that sometimes you just let things pass when you have no control over them. This clearly disturbs some of my friends, because I remember two different dinner parties where there were both close friends a minor acquaintances present. One time somebody said "I absolutely do not understand people who go to movies -- they are a complete waste of time" or something along those lines. Didn't bother me at all, but one of my friends felt a need to jump in to say that I went to the movies all the time and clearly felt that it was not a waste of time, and it certainly had an intellectual value for some people that not everybody understands. What a waste of breath! The other person was embarrassed and immediately dropped the subject. Big deal. Another time there was a discussion of cultural publications and somebody said "One of the ones that I cannot understand at all is 'xxx' -- how can anybody read that?" You guessed it -- a friend found it necessary to say "Kerouac has subscribed to that for the last 5 years" without adding that I passed along the old issues to him from time to time. So what? It didn't bother me at all that other people hated that magazine; there were plenty of articles in other publications that hated it. Who cares?

Online, I am a bit different, because the words are there on the screen and do not just evaporate into thin air after 2 seconds. This changes things completely. You know how in an "unsuccessful" real conversation there are all of those times when you think "I should have said..." but it's too late -- you didn't. And it doesn't matter.

But online, a lot of us tend to take things too seriously.

[mickthecactus]

I've had the good fortune to meet Kerouac and indeed he is a meek, mild slightly chubby chap in the flesh.

Behind a keyboard he is an absolute animal...

[casimira]

Jul 15, 2021 20:11:38 GMT mickthecactus said:

I've had the good fortune to meet Kerouac and indeed he is a meek, mild slightly chubby chap in the flesh.

Behind a keyboard he is an absolute animal...

Sounds like my beloved beast "Big Papi". He hasn't developed keyboard skills yet though...