Zoos ~~ good or bad idea?

[bixaorellana]

Inspired by a comment from Rikita, I started thinking about zoos. Obviously all places where animals are kept penned up in small dirty enclosures are bad.

But what about modern zoos, all of which claim to duplicate as far as possible the animals' natural habitats?

One argument for zoos is that they provide a haven for endangered animals, possibly preventing them from being completely wiped out. However, all zoos include animals such as the meerkat, which are not on any endangered list.

So, zoos -- important learning and teaching venues or cruelty to animals?

[joanne28]

The Metro Zoo in Toronto has a successful breeding program, which is one of the indictors of a good zoo. Happy animals breed.

We visit it once a year or so. My heart goes out to the cats as their enclosures seem too small to me but I understand the need to have populations outside of the natural habitats.

I guess a necessary thing, but not necessarily evil. Unfortunately, human animals being what they are, we will always need zoos.

[cigalechanta]

I've been to some wonderful zoos in France. One I enjoyed the most, was only all kinds on monkies and gorillas. They were not caged and interact with us. We were given cloth bags to put wallets, eyeglasses back pocket wallets because the chimps will snatch anything. We passed three monkeys sitting on a bench. My late husband was holding a can of cold drink. Suddenly one of the chimps jumped up trying to take the can away. They had a tufg of war , very amusing. another time standing on a path, suddenly a monkey dangled in front of me laughing. The Gorrilas were seperated from us by a body of water. on our shore were tiered benches so you could watch them and their families.

[onlymark]

If you would like to experience a badly run zoo, try my local one in Cairo.

[Deleted]

At least in the developed countries, there have been major efforts to make zoos nicer for the animals. If we could ask some of the animals if they prefer living in the zoo or in the wild, probably quite a few of them would choose the zoo. "Great medical plan, plenty to eat even in the dry season, restful nights without having to worry about predators. I like it!"

But when you look into the sad eyes of the gorillas, orangutans, chimpanzees or bonobos, maybe it's my imagination, but I'm convinced they know that they are in prison for a crime that they did not commit.

The Paris zoo is closed until 2012 to be completely restructured, and it will not have certain animals such as elephants, bears or rhinos, as they are better off in the drive-through safari parks if indeed people need to see them on display.

[bixaorellana]

There was a study done back in the 70s which demonstrated that the primates in zoos were suffering from various psychoses, certainly from depression.

I agree with your first paragraph, Kerouac. I doubt that the herd animals with ample room to move about are unhappy, for instance.

The zoo you describe sounds delightful to a point, Cigalechanta. However, I can't imagine how the zookeepers could guarantee that a human visitor wouldn't do something to alarm or threaten one of the zoo animals so that it would feel it had to attack. In fact, when I read your post, I immediately thought of this.

[gertie]

We visited a drive through park near us a while back. The animals were quite amusing and seemed happy enough. At one area, we were warned, a large Ostrich liked to take a stand and try to back off cars. Sure enough, the Ostrich was there just as predicted and we had a rather funny bit of a standoff with it. None of the animals there looked the least sad, though there weren't any gorillas, orangutans, chimpanzees or bonobos so perhaps those have differing ideas of requirements. We purchased a package ticked that included some "back of house" interaction with some the animals and to be honest, it almost seemed some of them ran the humans rather than the other way round. The giraffe were particularly amusing in this regard, there was quite a twinkle in their eye as they played with my daughters, eventually getting them to stand on their tiptoes offering up tidbits near the fence, then leaning in to lick them. (ewwww!) One could almost hear them giggling gleefully as they took off romping round the inner enclosure, clearly playing with each other and enjoying themselves. I do think many if not most animals are more intelligent than is ordinary to credit.

[bixaorellana]

One of the best things I ever read about animal intelligence was in an article about dolphins and other marine animals. One of the scientists studying them commented that there was an inherent flaw in any "intelligence" tests animals are asked to perform, in that they're created from a human perspective. He pointed out that if animals devised tests for humans, we'd fail miserably.

(this is surely a cue for someone to post that great Gary Larson cartoon w/the scientists & dolphins)

[myrt]

I grew up pretty close to Whipsnade Zoo in Bedfordshire, which in those days was an incredibly forward thinking zoo, and I had very little experience of any other sort of zoo. Then I visited others and was shocked to see the conditions the animals were kept in. An abiding childhood memory is of me standing staring into the eyes of an OrangUtan with our hands pressed together against the glass and feeling absolutely devastated at the total deadnss of the poor thing's gaze. It really upset me and I remember howling with grief!
So for many years I was very anti zoos.....but these days I think they have been responsible for so many breeding programmes which have saved certain species from extinction, and most are very enlightened and caring that they are an essential tool in the fight to raise awareness and focus our attention of the shocking way we are treating the planet.
More important IMO is to stop the shockingly cruel treatment many countries still inflict on their indigenous animals for whatever purpose - medicine, furs, or food etc - the casual and barbaric way many animals are treated is something I find intolerable.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Zoo

[Deleted]

I think that the only way to go in the future is with large animal parks, where the animals are free and the people are in enclosures (i.e. cars, etc.). So many animals will not survive for another 50 years if they are not given safe refuges, and some of them can also serve as zoological parks if they are far from the natural habitat of the protected animals.

[cheerypeabrain]

I recently visited Twycross Zoo....some effort is made nowadays to ensure that they don't get bored, have good vetinary care and an appropriate environment...but they were still in a cage. This chimpanzee has alopecia...isn't that a sign of stress?



on the other hand, a rare pair of snow leopards had a vast enclosure...the hope is that the breeding programme will be successful and there will be more snow leopards to release into the wild...

[Deleted]

I think that most of the apes are enough like us to suffer from the same things as we do -- boredom, manic episodes, stress, etc. Even in a huge enclosure, I'm sure that they realize that they are not free. At the same time, I'm sure that they are enough like us that a certain percentage of them don't mind at all as long as they receive free meals and medical care.

[Deleted]

Thanks for the giggle, K.

[Deleted]

I think the saddest animals I have seen at a zoo have got to be the mighty Wolves. They pace and pace, with eyes glowing hatred at the observers. They really want to be let loose.

[bjd]

Tigers do that too, Deyana. I always feel sorry for them because they are such magnificent animals and all they can do is pace back and forth.

[Deleted]

Yeah, I know what you mean, bjd. Some animals just don't belong in captivity.