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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 20:25:29 GMT
Some friends of mine have been trying to sell their village house in Burgundy due to, er, irreconciliable differences, and I had actually never been there, so I volunteered to drive a bit more than 200 km each way from Paris to take a friend to a real estate rendez-vous today. The market has been so slow, that he had not even been to the house for 3 1/2 months and everything was completely overgrown. He had to hack the luxuriant vegetation away from the doors and windows, while I went on cobweb patrol inside the house, and wow, the spiders can really create an eerie mess in these old unoccupied houses. It was built in the 18th century and is really not impressive at all from the outside. It is on this village street, with a closed well right out in front. There was a gate, but once it had been opened, I drove in. I parked the car up against the wall to make he courtyard look bigger to the visitors. This was the view from the back garden. The swimming pool remained under its protective tarp. There were a number of entrances to the house, but this is the view from the main entrance, with grape vines on the railing. It faced one of the several outbuildings, a traditional Burgundy round bread oven. This building was being used just for storage of garden equipment but could easily be transformed into a (small) guesthouse. The grapes were not ripe yet. The ivy was becoming invasive. There was also lavender in the garden, and it smelled sensational.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2010 21:20:23 GMT
I found the inside to be much more impressive than the outside. For one thing, it looked much bigger than I expected. As in any old French house, the kitchen is the very first room that you enter. After all, it is the most important room of the house. The kitchen table was simple and quite adequate for ordinary family meals. The living/dining room was lovely, even if it is not my personal style of living room. This one was "magazine quality" or at least the kind in which tidying is often done. I am more of a "use the living room and who cares if it is messy" person. Poor me. Anyway, the last room on the ground floor is the master bedroom, which did not seem too shabby to me either. Upstairs, there were three other bedrooms plus a library/TV room. The third bedroom was the little girl's bedroom, but I didn't manage to get a picture of it. There was also a very nice additional bathroom. Well, the people arrived, they took a look around, and they hated it. In their defense, they were elderly and wanted everything on the same floor. It was all finished in 10 minutes. I had spent far longer slapping down spiderwebs with my kitchen towel. I guess Burgundy is just ugly.
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Post by fumobici on Aug 19, 2010 23:24:32 GMT
They hadn't told anyone they required a one floor house?
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Post by frenchmystiquetour on Aug 20, 2010 0:05:02 GMT
I sold real estate for a couple of years and a trip to meet those prospective buyers would not have made my day. It's a very nice house, though. Is it near anything worth seeing or doing? Can you tell us the asking price?
I often wonder how the negotiation process works over here when you buy a house. My wife had a hard time understanding the concept that people selling a house in America have an asking price and then the buyer will offer less and then there are counter-offers etc and either a deal is made or the two parties just walk away. I haven't even gotten into the concept of having a broker representing the seller and another broker representing a buyer and commissions and home inspections, appraisals, bank loans etc.
Here, are you just expected to pay the asking price? Can you offer less and negotiate? Would that be unusual or insulting? And what if the house is unrealistically priced (as in overpriced)? I wonder just what is the custom here.
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Post by fumobici on Aug 20, 2010 0:30:27 GMT
In Tuscany I'm told it is still usualpractice to close the sale with a suitcase full of cash. Machismo lives ;D
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Post by lagatta on Aug 20, 2010 2:26:38 GMT
I think it is a fine house. It is easy to make the living room a bit more cluttered... Love the kitchen. Country houses in Québec have those big kitchens too.
I don't drive, so ideally I'd have to be within reasonable cycling distance from a railway line, without any terribly steep hills.
Jazz or I will gladly rent the small guesthouse!
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Post by hwinpp on Aug 20, 2010 4:53:41 GMT
I like the house too. And there are worse places to live than in Burgundy, I think.
What impressed me were the two entries in your pic #2.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2010 5:12:45 GMT
Is it near anything worth seeing or doing? Can you tell us the asking price? I often wonder how the negotiation process works over here when you buy a house. My wife had a hard time understanding the concept that people selling a house in America have an asking price and then the buyer will offer less and then there are counter-offers etc and either a deal is made or the two parties just walk away. I haven't even gotten into the concept of having a broker representing the seller and another broker representing a buyer and commissions and home inspections, appraisals, bank loans etc. Here, are you just expected to pay the asking price? Can you offer less and negotiate? Would that be unusual or insulting? And what if the house is unrealistically priced (as in overpriced)? I wonder just what is the custom here. No, people negotiate in France exactly the same as in the United States. And obviously, when something stays on the market for too long, the owners start dropping the price. This reduces the margins of negotiation, however. For example, my friends have already lowered the price by about 50,000€ and they would have difficulty accepting much less now. Here is how it is listed in Particulier-à-Particulier: Vassy (89420). Ancien presbytère rénové avec goût, entre Montbard (1h Paris TGV) et Avallon, 200 m² habitables, lumineux, beaux volumes, charme. Grande cuisine équipée, séjour/salon, 3 grandes chambres, 2 salles de bains. 2lectricité, plomberie, chauffage et isolation neufs. Jardin, piscine, dépendances. Sur terrain 800 m². 345.000 €. 06.88.18.63.36. Photos lesaspes.free.fr/ It is right next to he town of.... Montréal.
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Post by Jazz on Aug 20, 2010 11:06:41 GMT
The house is lovely and I think its exterior is just fine. I don’t quite understand why it hasn’t been sold. Perhaps the location is too remote, but it would be perfect if you were someone who could work from home, a writer, painter etc. or, if you were retired. And, as Kerouac mentioned, the round bread oven ‘flat’ could bring in a little income. There are so many elements of beauty in this property, the walled garden, the kitchen with the fireplace, wooden floors, the original beams throughout and its gorgeous stone walls. The light is superb. The courtyard could easily come back to life again as a garden and I like the arched stone entryway. Love the shuttered window with the ivy run riot. The generous garden needs very little work to become an oasis. Does the village have a shop to buy basic supplies, or would it mean a trip to Montreal? What would be the nearest small/mediuml city or large town? Site for Montreal, (also tiny) www.burgundytoday.com/historic-places/medieval-villages/montreal.htmYour friends have renovated well and created a sense of beauty and space. I like how they brought so much natural light in with their choice of windows, doors and skylights, without disturbing the original integrity of the period of the home. The real estate site also has great photos. Lagatta and I will become prospective tenants. I’m trying to imagine what you could buy in Paris for that price, which seems excellent for this home. Very enjoyable, Kerouac.
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Post by lagatta on Aug 20, 2010 12:18:58 GMT
There are several Montréals in France - it is a rather generic name, after all. In Italy, there is a Monreale in Sicily and a Montereale in Fruili. Not to mention Monterrey in Mexico and Monterey in California... www.montreal-aude.fr/montrealfrance This url is on the Montréal in Aude site, a much larger (and very impressive) village in southwestern France. According to the map on the site, there is a railway station very close by, Drat, I've lost the link, but it was 4km something. How cyclable that is depends on the terrain, of course (we are talking not-young person on not-young or high-performance bicycle, carrying stuff). www.montreal-en-bourgogne.com/
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2010 13:29:48 GMT
Your friends have renovated well and created a sense of beauty and space. I like how they brought so much natural light in with their choice of windows, doors and skylights, without disturbing the original integrity of the period of the home. From what I understand, the previous owners renovated the downstairs part. My friends did the upstairs part when they bought it.
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Post by frenchmystiquetour on Aug 20, 2010 14:32:42 GMT
Having appraised residential real estate for almost 20 years I have extensive experience in what makes a house presentable and this one is a real charmer. Only the garden needs a bit of sprucing up and landscaping is the easiest thing to remedy as far as home repairs are concerned. I imagine the location must be somewhat remote otherwise I don't know why it would still be on the market. It has everything else going for it.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2010 16:49:51 GMT
Obviously the garden needs to be attended to -- nobody had been to the house for 3 and a half months! I think that a paid gardener is supposed to come and do some things before the end of the month.
One thing that I thought was very good about a house like this is that it had double glazed windows, central heating downstairs and some good mobile radiators upstairs. Anybody who has ever spent the winter in an old stone house knows how important this is.
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Post by lagatta on Aug 20, 2010 21:46:31 GMT
Yes, that is excellent, and not only a comfort factor but a huge energy saver.
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Post by gertie on Aug 20, 2010 23:11:07 GMT
I think the house is simply lovely. I love the old wood floors and the little courtyard. I so hope to be able to spend some time in such a house someday in France, but I fear it may be a dream of mine that goes unrealized. Makes it doubly lovely to get to look at such a house here.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2010 14:25:08 GMT
The village has one of the most unusual military monuments that I have seen -- a painted statue of a "poilu".
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2010 18:18:40 GMT
I'm not an expert on military stuff but the uniform doesn't look much like the one of a "poilu". I have taken these photos in the little village of Son, Ardennes:
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Post by lola on Aug 24, 2010 2:21:57 GMT
Charming house and village. I'd snatch it up myself and create my own set of irreconciliable differences.
My ideal village would have a minimum of a bakery and a traveling market twice/week, and be within 10 km of a town with two or more bakeries, a cafe or so, a permanent market, a RR station.
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Post by lagatta on Aug 24, 2010 23:45:27 GMT
Shite, my post disappeared.
I'll live in the town. It would have a boulangerie and a market, not necessarily every day (that takes rather large towns), a café-restaurant with decent food and wine, and of course a railway station.
Those village and small town war memorials are chilling. The list of fallen seems to exceed the population of the whole damned village, of whatever age or gender.
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Post by cigalechanta on Aug 25, 2010 3:35:46 GMT
They made a big mistake in not keeping up the garden , grass part to make the place seem more welcoming.
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Post by bjd on Aug 25, 2010 17:09:26 GMT
Well, personally I find the price really high for a house in a village. Otherwise, I think the house is pretty nice. Not that I would want to live in such a small place.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2010 17:52:48 GMT
I have trouble getting a grip on such prices, too, but apparently that is the standard price in that area for a place with a swimming pool. In the same vein, when I saw my grandparents' house in Lorraine on sale recently for something like 70,000€, I found it shockingly cheap and was sort of sorry that I have no desire to ever live in that village again.
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Post by lagatta on Aug 25, 2010 18:15:50 GMT
I don't think you could by a cupboard in Paris for 70 000€.
The house seems in remarkably good repair, with all the major stuff done (double glazing, central heating, bath and kitchen renovation etc). Do most people really want a swimming pool?
Indeed, with a more charming garden, I think the place might already be sold. It is hard to keep that out when you just want out. Do the two still live there?
I do know people who live in places like that and telecommute, but I'd find it far too isolating.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2010 18:32:22 GMT
No, if they lived there, the garden would be in perfect condition. They haven't spent any time there for a year except for furtive visits to try to sell it.
I think they were kind of stupid -- they had a lovely house in the center of Avallon, just as big or even bigger but just a small garden (with all of the services of a real town and even a cinema or two) on the direct train line to Paris, and they sold it more or less out of greed, because they were able to double their money in less than 3 years.
And then they bought this place, which is very nice but with infrequent bus service from god-knows-where. If you don't have a car, it is useless.
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Post by lagatta on Aug 26, 2010 0:23:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2010 14:52:13 GMT
Indeed, Avallon is a very nice town, with a restored medieval part and pedestrian streets, but also supermarkets and other necessities.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2011 14:47:44 GMT
Well, the house is still for sale as the real estate market prepares to collapse.
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Post by palesa on Aug 7, 2011 15:06:06 GMT
What a lovely house, I can see myself eating a tin of baked beans in that kitchen. I could be convinced to go and house sit for them
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2011 15:15:04 GMT
Well, the house is still for sale as the real estate market prepares to collapse. I remember this thread vividly....gosh...it's still for sale a year later....ouch.... Are your friends still having to pay the note on this house K2? With no rental income that has to be an incredible financial strain.
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LouisXIV
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L'estat c'est moi.
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Post by LouisXIV on Aug 7, 2011 15:37:21 GMT
I am a retired real estate broker in the US and I also feel as mentioned above the exterior has to be cleaned up and also the shutters need a fresh coat of paint. I really liked the interior of the home and I feel it shows well, I think I would remove anything that is not necessary to have a less cluttered look. People want to see the house and not your personal items and with that removed it makes the rooms look larger. I would still have some furniture in the rooms so potential buyers can visualize how the room would look, but not large furniture that makes the room look small. I really liked that small table in the kitchen, maybe put a napkin, silverware, plate and empty wine glass to make it look like they are invited to dinner. Dress it to sell. When you buy anything it is an emotional decision and buying a home is the ultimate emotional decision.
Have they put the home on Craigs List? With some really good photos.
Where I live, Traverse City, Michigan, homes have been on the market for years and that is true in may places in the US. This is a tough market and it has to be priced right or it will not sell.
I know nothing about prices in Europe, is the home listed with a real estate company? If so, what is the advice of the real estate people about the price. I don't know if this is possible in France, but there were times when I ask the seller to get a professional appraisor to appraise the home for "market vake" to use it as a marketing tool. It may make the negotiating easier with a professional opinion of value.
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